Civilian national security force

President Barack Obama has called for a "civilian national security force" as powerful as the U.S. military in order to achieve the national security objectives that he (they) have set.
A force that is just a strong, powerfull and just as well funded as its non civilian counter part.
The first question that comes up is, what are these "national security objectives" that he is talking about and why does he need such a big civilian army for it ?
The US has allready on of the stronger armies in the world, are they not sufficient to reach these "national security objectives" he is talking about ?

A regular army is not allowed to police the US civilians by US law, but is suppose a civilian army is.
There are many past examples of how effective such a civilian military police force can be.

One in 50 adults in East Germany collaborated with the Stasi. Relative to population, they were the largest secret police in the history of mankind.

The Stasi called itself “The Shield and Sword of the Party.” Its job? To ensure there was no dissention against the state, by whatever means. Disappearances were common, as were months of interrogation. Listening devices were employed against staggering numbers of the public and any comments against the state were punished ruthlessly.

joiningthedots.tv...

Germany's Stasi history

Hitler Youth

The HJ was organized into corps under adult leaders, and the general membership comprised boys aged fourteen to eighteen. From 1936, membership of the HJ was compulsory for all young German men. The HJ was also seen as an important stepping stone to future membership of the elite Schutzstaffel (the SS). Members of the HJ were particularly proud to be bestowed with the single Sig Rune (victory symbol) by the SS. The SS utilized two Sig Runes as their mark, and this gesture served to symbolically link the two groups.

The HJ was organized into local cells on a community level. Such cells had weekly meetings at which various Nazi doctrines were taught by adult HJ leaders. Regional leaders typically organized rallies and field exercises in which several dozen Hitler Youth cells would participate.

en.wikipedia.org...

I am still puzzled why this "civilian national security force" is needed officialy, but unofficialy i can see many reasons from the past.
Somehow pictures of mandatory flag waving rallies and civilian national army parades and civilian domestic spy activities like the former east german stasi, spring to mind.

Why would civil representatives, that we pay to do jobs for us, tell us to work for them, unpaid ?
Maybe i am getting old but it defies all my logic.

"Are we talking about creating a police state here? The U.S. Army alone has nearly 500,000 troops. That doesn't count reserves or National Guard. In 2007, the U.S. Defense budget was $439 billion. Is Obama serious about creating some kind of domestic security force bigger and more expensive than that? If not, why did he say it? What did he mean?"
(snip)
Since authorities now define mundane activities like buying baby formula, beer, wearing Levi jeans, carrying identifying documents like a drivers license and traveling with women or children or mentioning the U.S. constitution as the behavior of potential terrorists, the bounty for the American Stasi to turn in political dissidents is sure to be too tempting to resist under Obama's new program.

www.propagandamatrix.com...

Equal manpower. Our current military strength is over 1.3 MILLION troops. That’s approximately 50% more troops than civilian cops for the U.S.

Equal firepower. Having the same number of PEOPLE doesn’t matter unless they have the same number of GUNS and other weapons. What in the world could we possibly need 1.3+ million civilians armed with automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers, etc for? I’m a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, but come on… do we NEED that?

A similar Chain of Command - which stops at the Commander in Chief, the President of the United States. That would give Mr. Obama control over an awful lot of power from both the military and civilian base.

www.officer.com...

I guess this is their plan to keep Order in the New World.

Maybe if that was construed to be our "militia" then it could be argued that we dont have an individual right to keep and bear arms. there will be plenty of militia in every neighborhood to protect and serve us.

Yes, why? That is the $64,000 question. What motivation is behind him wanting to create this force? I don't see any need for a civilian force to be created as we have one of the most powerful armies in the world.

If he suceeds, I'm afraid we'll have lots of people in this force with "little mans syndrome" chomping at the bit to throw their weight around. This in turn will lead to little skirmishes all across the country which will ultimately lead to the pot boiling over. People won't take kindly to having their neighbors policing them.

Common sense dictates that this is not a good idea. But, I've learned over the past several years that common sense is in short supply on Capitol Hill.


[edit on 1/21/2009 by soldiermom]

Perhaps he is just talking about this you know remember this the second amendment?

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by BorgHoffen]

Seems its not only the EU and UK lacking in common sense. All governments do is cause more hastle the last time the UK had a decent government was Winston Churchill. and the last president of the USA that was decent was Ronald Reagan. When will governments learn to just listen to the public and not do stuff we do not need and that will only cause the public to suffer.

Originally posted by BorgHoffen
Perhaps he is just talking about this you know remember this the second amendment?

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by BorgHoffen]

That's the first thing I thought of too, BorgHoffen. However, the constitution is in place to limit federal government, not to broaden it. The second ammendment guarantees the right of the States to have well regulated militias - not the feds. The federal government cannot police it's citizens because they don't have the right to police inside the States. If this is truly a national (federal) civilian force, I can't see that it is constitutional at all.

Rights given in the constitution:
Federal - limited by the constitution
States - limited by the constitution but not as much as Federal
Individual - all rights except those expressly given to the Federal and States

[edit on 21/1/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

That's the positive side yes.
It could also mean with the economic free fall which is about the hit the dollar that they want to prevent wide scale pillaging? Remember that people without food will turn into beasts.

Or on a more positive note, have this so called 'army' consist out of people willing to help the community. So no-one will run out of food and they are there to help guide everybody through the coming times?

Wow, the first thing I thought of was THE TURNER DIARIES.
The government implemented a civilian force to help corral those Americans with civil disobedience issues.

This will be an interesting topic to watch unfold.

There's a possibility this could be a good thing.

Now I believe as citizens and patriots it's our right as well as our duty to be careful and question moves such as these and to be extremely cautious in the same sense.

However if you think about it he's also talked of community service. Even though I'm wary of the guy and his overwhelming supporters (who act like they'd give their life for him without knowing him) I think we should at least consider the benefits.

First as already stated the Constitution is outlined for state trained and equipped militia. Some consider the National Guard units to be just this. I for one do not agree. I believe at the very least a state sponsored training and armament would be very beneficial for most citizens.. as long as it was an OPTION and not FORCED upon everyone.

Edit: I'm also trying to acount that I live in an area (Kentucky) where most families have at least someone that is proficient with a firearm. Regardless of sex I'd say the better half of the population here has a firearm in the home as well. I know some states don't share the same as it is here especially states with strict firearm regulations (i.e CA/NY etc). I think it could also be beneficial for the citizens of those states especially.

This has the possibility to allow one to meet new people. If the training on weapons was decent that would be a plus, especially if weapons were state sponsored. I would also believe there would be at least be some survival training involved which would also be a plus. I think as a whole it may be a good way to unify some citizens as well as state to state. In essence it also strenghtens the US as a whole. Of course all of this would be worthless IF the units were able to be called to active duty and shipped overseas. The whole purpose of the state militia would be to defend against an outside attack on US Soil. (not to police the state or anything like that either.)

Curious to see how this unfolds, I would love to be an active part of state trained militia for home defense purposes ONLY. (not that I live in fear of "terrorists" just think it's a good idea as posted above)

[edit on 21-1-2009 by n1zzzn]

Originally posted by mortje
Or on a more positive note, have this so called 'army' consist out of people willing to help the community. So no-one will run out of food and they are there to help guide everybody through the coming times?

If this civilian army is as well equiped as the regular army, does that mean they will have tanks and attack helicopters for example ?
It doesn't realy sounds like they are going to hand out bread to the needed, from what i hear in his statement.
Funded and equiped like the regular army is much more dramatic i think.

Here is are a few more details.

J.D. Tuccille of the Civil Liberties Examiner also points out, "Most public schools depend on federal dollars. As Obama elaborated in a speech last December, 'At the middle and high school level, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities'

"So, it won't be the nasty federal government forcing your kids to donate their time to government-approved service, it'll be the local schools – but that requirement will be among the strings attached to federal money," Tuccille writes.

Obama's selection of an advocate for mandatory civil service, Rahm Emanuel, as his chief of staff has further worried bloggers that Obama's plans may be more "requirement" than "encouragement."

In his book, "The Plan: Big Ideas for America," Emanuel writes: "It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, all Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service."
www.worldnetdaily.com...

I've always wondered why we don't have civilian armies or "militias" nowadays. During the Revolutionary War we had militias, why don't we have them now?
I'm not sure if that has to do with the NWO though,

I don't see this ever coming to pass honestly.

on some levels, this could help people get by economically if its a paying gig.
i could see a lot of people stepping up to protect or help out their country really.

looking forward to reading and understanding it better.

I actually think this is a great idea if executed properly and carefully. Honestly I'd feel a whole hell of a lot better if I knew local neighbors were looking out for me vs the police.

Honestly even the attitude change of everyone in this country from the instant victim mentality would be a nice change. 7+ years being beat over the head with terrorism "threats" and the rest of the "fun ride" it's been since 2000, that has battered the psyche of many mainstream Americans. This helps give those people the mindset that they are powerful and can come together in a time of need. Perhaps just the ideal is enough to get people to stop looking at the ground and start seeing the sky again..

Originally posted by HaTaX
I actually think this is a great idea if executed properly and carefully. Honestly I'd feel a whole hell of a lot better if I knew local neighbors were looking out for me vs the police.

Honestly even the attitude change of everyone in this country from the instant victim mentality would be a nice change. 7+ years being beat over the head with terrorism "threats" and the rest of the "fun ride" it's been since 2000, that has battered the psyche of many mainstream Americans. This helps give those people the mindset that they are powerful and can come together in a time of need. Perhaps just the ideal is enough to get people to stop looking at the ground and start seeing the sky again..

Well if you like to do all these things for your government and country than that is very nice.
But maybe there are many people who dont see it thta way.
This civil army service is supposed to be mandatory so you have to go and work for them if you like it or not.
I am very happy this is not starting in my country bcause i dont like the whole idea, i pay tax so they work for me, it be crazy to keep paying my taxes and work for free for them.
For me the whole idea smells somehow and is totaly open to government abuse as far as i can see.
It will start with 50 to 100 hours a year, but will it end there ?

Originally posted by jaamaan
Here is are a few more details.

J.D. Tuccille of the Civil Liberties Examiner also points out, "Most public schools depend on federal dollars. As Obama elaborated in a speech last December, 'At the middle and high school level, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities'

"So, it won't be the nasty federal government forcing your kids to donate their time to government-approved service, it'll be the local schools – but that requirement will be among the strings attached to federal money," Tuccille writes.

Obama's selection of an advocate for mandatory civil service, Rahm Emanuel, as his chief of staff has further worried bloggers that Obama's plans may be more "requirement" than "encouragement."

In his book, "The Plan: Big Ideas for America," Emanuel writes: "It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, all Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service."
www.worldnetdaily.com...

Sounds more and more like we'll become Israel. It's interesting that Rahm Emanuel (dual Israeli/US citizen, White House Chief of Staff) wrote that in his book and now we're seeing his words in action. It's also interesting that this was his training and still is required in Israel.

Thank you for the extra information.

It looks like this was all planned way ahead, and that was exactly what i felt when i heard that quote from him the first time.
Just the shear determination in his statement and the little triomf smile he seemed to get when the people aplauded his statement halfway.

Like some people said, there could be a positive out turn of this but somehow i mostly doubt that.
To me a draft is a draft no matter how you frase it and i'd hate to see something simular comming to my country.

The video clip is very short and lacks details but what he says is very scary. A big portion of are budget already goes to national defences, he says as well funded so that means the national defences buget would be doubled, where is this money coming from? Also just as powerful? are military is by far the strongest in the world huge numbers and technology. I don't think these civilians would be deployed over seas so who are they their to fight? we already have police and fireman. Also when watching the clip I can't help but notice everyone blindly cheering and clapping in the backround. what would be the porpose of this (civilian defence force) I hear people talking likes it would be a community serves forces picking up trash ect, thats not what the name implies. Just some random thoughts

Originally posted by jaamaan
Thank you for the extra information.

It looks like this was all planned way ahead, and that was exactly what i felt when i heard that quote from him the first time.
Just the shear determination in his statement and the little triomf smile he seemed to get when the people aplauded his statement halfway.

Like some people said, there could be a positive out turn of this but somehow i mostly doubt that.
To me a draft is a draft no matter how you frase it and i'd hate to see something simular comming to my country.

I agree about this seems too planned out. I dont trust this new administration or our new leader and I have served in the military and gladly defend it, but dont need to agree with its leaders. Thats one of the freedoms given to us as a nation.
What gets me is this community service being thrown out there?
People doing things that we as a nation were doing and making a wage and a living are now suppose to do it for free and watch our way of life slip into a third world nation?
Come on were is the american inspiration coming from these days?
My 2 cents worth...