Darfur the Real Gaza

A rebellion started in 2003 against the Arab-dominated Sudanese government, with two local rebel groups - the Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) and the Sudan Liberation Movement/Army (SLA) - accusing the government of oppressing non-Arabs in favor of Arabs. The government was also accused of neglecting the Darfur region of Sudan. In response, the government mounted a campaign of aerial bombardment supporting ground attacks by an Arab militia, the Janjaweed. The government-supported Janjaweed were accused of committing major human rights violations, including mass killing, looting, and systematic rape of the non-Arab population of Darfur.

UN officials estimate over 400,000 people have lost their lives and some 2 million more have been driven from their homes in three years of fighting between the Sudanese Government, allied militias and rebel forces.

The head of the UN investigating team, the Nobel Peace laureate Jody Williams, described the international response to the crisis as "pathetic".

I want to know why doesn't anyone care about what is happening in Darfur? Do we care more about Arabs than Africans? Is it because Israel is involved and that pisses us off for some reason? 400,000 thousand people ethnically cleansed from the land they have lived on since the beginning of evolution. There is no dispute over who was here first or who lives where, thus there should be no problem to see who is right and who is wrong. I ask again why are we not banning Arab made goods, protesting all over the world, and, especially, discussing it on this forum?


Sources:

en.wikipedia.org...

www.un.org...

en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 20-1-2009 by Founding]

You hit that nail on the head. There are a lot of pretenders who say that they are aghast of the "slaughter" going on in Gaza, and how the poor Palestinians are so persecuted.

I call BS.

You'll note they are highly selective in who they criticize.

Isaelis. Jews.

It isn't the live lost that count, as you've pointed out, it's the hatred of Israel specifically they reserve their hatred for.

We should have a hundred-fold threads on the slaughters in Africa, but the problem is - NO JEWS TO BLAME!

Gaza was the real Gaza and Darfur is meant to be kept in the dark, there is no need for the media to report what is hapening because the people are poor and there is no live feeds coming out of WP bombs going off.

war is a media circus and if you can't get large explossions, no one wants to watch.

who is going to report machette deaths when you can watch Idol and have McDonalds sold to you.

Well, I do agree that Darfur is a horrible situation and should be discussed more! There should be tons of outrage not only from the ATS community, but the world itself!

There are a number of threads, though they seem to be dead (they were short lived) and rather old...why is this?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Overall search:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Exactly what I am trying to figure out. Why do people go into such a frenzy when Israel invades Gaza (death toll 1,200; 700 Hamas) but just don't care when the African population of Sudan is suffering beyond measure. Why is it that 400,000 Africans can be killed and two million displaced by an Arab regime and no one cares at all. This is just mind blowing. You can even see by the number of responses on this thread. Only three! You have got to be kidding me, that is just pathetic guys. You want to wake up and protest a real genocide/holocaust, well here it is. Any takers?

reply to post by Founding


I think you will hear more about it in the coming months. Obama and company will make sure of that. Your point is well taken and noted.

Starred

reply to post by Founding


Good thread...like others have said, it's interesting that this issue doesn't seem to gain much traction on ATS.

Below is a link to a speech delivered by Ambassador Richard S. Williamson (Special US Envoy to Sudan). It's full of great information, and I'd post the whole thing up here if it wasn't so long. It was presented at a think-tank, so it's not watered down for mass consumption -- it's meant for thinkers.

www.speroforum.com...

I hate to be vulgar, but anyone who watches the media knows.

Pretty blonde American girl gets killed - headlines for days.

100.000 poor black African girl gets murdered - no story.


Israel news is always a special case. People receive a media sanctioned opportunity to work off their hostilities by blaming the Jews for everything going on in the world, and by deferral their own lives.

The Palestinian girl shot in a cross fire (if it really happened) is another headline grabber.

"Those damned Zionists again!" Zionist is the politically correct term for Jew these days.

No one makes a video of the poor black Sundanese man carrying his dead child in his arms. No one interviews the weeping mother.

Khartoum isn't a fun place with fancy hotels where concerned international journalists can sip on cocktails while typing up their latest outraged indignant report on the genocide being perpetrated by the nasty IDF.

The public buys into all this.


Mike F

you kill 1 its a story , you kill a million ,its a statistic. Darfur is a tragedy of epic proportions, But that doesnt mean Gaza is ok because the numbers are lower , Murder is Murder.

Originally posted by branty
you kill 1 its a story , you kill a million ,its a statistic. Darfur is a tragedy of epic proportions, But that doesnt mean Gaza is ok because the numbers are lower , Murder is Murder.

Iran funded and stocked up Hamas to the hilt to fight a war with Israel. Israel just said "stop shelling us" but Hamans persisted knowing the consequences. They got the war they wanted.

Israel did as much damage to Hamas as they could trying to minimize casualties to innocent people. Hamas did it's best to ensure innocents were killed, to provoke international outcries. They didn't wear their identifiable uniforms, hid amongst the people, and their leadership were totally removed from the battlefront. The top dog hiding in Syria.

People get killed in wars. it's a sanctioned form of murder. That's why there is such a desire to avoid it.


Mike F

Originally posted by mmiichael
Israel did as much damage to Hamas as they could trying to minimize casualties to innocent people. Hamas did it's best to ensure innocents were killed, to provoke international outcries.

Hmmmmmm 1000+ casulties, use of WP's and what exactly did they do to HAMAS other than ensuring the next 20 years of recruits. If your going to commit war crimes you should at least have the stones to go all way as it basically got them nothing.

People get killed in wars. it's a sanctioned form of murder. That's why there is such a desire to avoid it.

Yes, but dropping near schools or taking out hospitals is not war its ethnic clensing or genocide eh?

Edit to add: Both are tragedies and its a disgrace that the world is not moving in to stop the genocide in Darfur or in Gaza


[edit on 2/15/09 by FredT]

Originally posted by FredT

dropping near schools or taking out hospitals is not war its ethnic clensing or genocide eh?

You apparently didn't follow the events that closely. Hamas went out of it's way to lure Israeli retaliation by hiding in public areas and shooting from public buildings. They acted like they were inviting casualties among civilians.

If Israel wanted to knock out the leadership they knew they were hiding in hospitals.

Genocide. Israel is 20% Arab. It ha been attacked 3 times in it's history by an assmbly of it's Arab neighbours with the intention of wiping them out. Israel has done it's best to minimize killing innocents.

But people like to throw around inflammatory words and avoid talking about what the Muslim world does to itself.

An estimated 4 Million Muslims have keen killed in the Middle East in the last 40 year due to various regional conflict or attemtps to annihilate troubling minorities like the Kurds. 98% of the Muslim deaths were caused by fellow Muslims. So who is committing genocide?


Mike F

I find it very interesting that Israeli apologists are trying to make it seem that we don't care about Darfur, and that we should pay more attention to Darfur and less to what the scumbags in Tel Aviv did to the Gaza Strip.

DISTRACTION.

Just because something else hapened elsewhere doesn't mean Gaza didn't happen.

It's because apparently it's ok when muslims, kill, take land, rape, and destroy cultures.

It's god's work don't you know.

The rest of us are evil kuffars........so we're not allowed to even dream of doing it or dare criticise the supposedly superior muslim blood and belief....



Oh that lovely chap god.....

lol I mean we could list the 20+ countries where Darfur type scenario's are going on due to muslim expansion policies but then you'll be called out as every name under the sun as an evil zionist or apologist or supporter of Israel and the USA etc. etc.........Even if you criticise Israel and the USA lol.

The logic is hilarious. The actual events are nothing to laugh about though.


I wouldn't call Darfur a Distraction. But a bigot with an agenda would....

People hate Jews. Any excuse to criticize them, find fault, accuse them of crimes, is fair game. Just use the politically correct buzzwords - Israel, Zionists, Mossad, IDF.

The Saudis practice outright slavery, disenfranchised minorities amn dissidents fighting for equality are routinely rounded up and murdered throughout the Middle East. Muslims control 99.5% of the land in the region, and are sitting on top of the most valuable natural resources in the world. Little attempt is made to spread the wealth equitably, improve the standard of living, health benefits, education, humanitarian rights, etc.

The Palestinians are given arms to fight Israel, but no one has ever offered them anything else.

The region remains a medieval backwater giving little hope or future to hundreds of millions, except an opportunity to die for their corrup leaders by killing some Jews.

If a million children die in a power or resource war among Muslims, no one talks about it. When a Palestinian little girl is killed in a crossfire, they run to their keyboard and express their anguish and outraged indignation.

Just a lot of sick ignorant prejudiced hatred.



Mike F

Gaza and Darfur are two entirely separate issues. Gaza is the real Gaza and Darfur is the real Darfur. The tragedy in one location does not in any way diminish the tragedy in another.

Indeed Africa has long been neglected by the world. It has been kept as backwater spot in the world with little modern civilization, and when trouble breaks out, as it often does, it gets neglected. Sad, but true. I do admit I am a bit surprised that no one on this thread has mentioned how Israel has long been profiting from the tragedy in Darfur. They have been raking in millions on arms sales to the Darfur region, by selling them and conducting training in neighboring Chad, ever since the Reagan era. Instead of selling guns, which they buy with US funding that is supposed to go to Israeli needs, they should be working to bring about peace in the region. There is no profit in peace, thus every war monger with weapons is out to make a sale. China is also another major weapons dealer in Darfur.

reply to post by Terapin


The point is the whole word erupts when 1,300 Arabs die in Gaza. But 400,000 Africans killed and 2,000,000 displaced by an Arab regime and what does the world do? The point I was making by comparing Darfur it Gaza was why does one take precedent over the other? Is it because the Jews are invovled in one war and not in the other? Could you imagine the media attention if Israel killed as many people as the Arab regime in Darfur? These are questions and the points I am trying to make and understand.

Originally posted by Terapin

I am a bit surprised that no one on this thread has mentioned how Israel has long been profiting from the tragedy in Darfur. They have been raking in millions on arms sales to the Darfur region, by selling them and conducting training in neighboring Chad, ever since the Reagan era. Instead of selling guns, which they buy with US funding that is supposed to go to Israeli needs, they should be working to bring about peace in the region. There is no profit in peace, thus every war monger with weapons is out to make a sale. China is also another major weapons dealer in Darfur.

Israel receives foreign aid for defense spending and is accountable. Much of the money is in the form of repayable loans. Places like Egypt, Jordan, and even the Palestinians also receive billions form the US, probably much more than Israel cumulatively.

A sophisticated weapons and military equipment developed over decades in Israel, for the obvious reasons. Arms are sold to many countries, directly and otherwise. Israel as a nation is more supportive of factions in Chad and the Darfur rebellion than of the Arab regime there and their massive genocide program. Do you work in Israeli national financial planning and are able to say that the American money received goes to arming and training these Africans, and not elsewhere?



Mike F

My point was twofold. One, If israel is making war profits from Darfur, then why does it need US funding. Israel has a higher standard of living than all of its neighbors combined. Surely they do not need to profit from a war in Africa. Being merchants of war, does not endear them as peace brokers on their own home front. History shows us differently.

Two. Gaza is what it is. That doesnt make Darfur any less, or any more relevant. They are two separate problems and should be treated as such. Israel kills over 1300 civilians on World Wide Television, in living bloody color (60% of those victims were children) all because Hamas launched some small rockets which did little damage. The disproportionate response is what outrages most people. The recent crisis in Gaza was started by Israel, yet they falsely tried to blame Hamas for breaking the ceasefire. I think that the attempt at placing 100% of the blame on Hamas is greatly influencing the backlash. Israel refuses to admit any guilt. Gaza is on the TV all the time so it is in the public eye. Of course people are going to comment more on it because of that. Israel is seen as a civilized nation, yet it resorts to very uncivilized behavior. Multiple violations of international laws and the Geneva Conventions. War crimes in fact. Peace could come about. If Israel ends the economic embargo. Remember, Israel helped to create Hamas in the first place in an effort to divide the population into factions. If Israel would abide by international law and end the occupation, there would be a chance for peace. Hamas has stated that they would recognize Israel if it followed the UN plan, yet Israel has never agreed to recognize any Palestinian state.

In Darfur many more die yet the media does not cover it. Blame the media. If Darfur was on TV every day, then you can bet people would be more outraged. This factional war in Darfur is being fueled by outside influences. If those outsiders stopped funding the war, it would end rather rapidly. Some are after Oil in the Sudan, Some with to keep the area in conflict and destabilized for political reasons. Some simply want the war to continue so the profits continue. I will let you guess where Israel fits into the Darfur situation. Just remember that while Israel profits from weapon sales and training, they have refused to allow refugees into Israel. If Darfur got more media attention, and was in everyones living room each evening, it would become center stage due to the numbers alone, yet the media chooses to ignore it. Sudan and Chad are not seen in the public eye as very civilized nations, and thus people have few expectations for their good behavior, unlike Israel. As I said Africa has long been treated as a backwater part of the world and is generally ignored. The horrors of Darfur do not lessen the issue in Gaza. Darfur and Gaza do not lessen the problems elsewhere in the world. Each is a separate issue.

reply to post by Terapin


Are you going to provide proof or just ad homoniem attack your way out of the truth?