Enough with the praying already!

I have been watching the inauguration (and luncheon after). Is anyone besides me unnerved by the endless invocation of God and praying that is going on in this very short period of time (90 mins)?

I am not saying that there is no place for a prayer, but must everything be prayed over repeatedly and God called being ceaslessly called upon?

Whatever happened to seperation of church and state being a fundamental tenet of our constituion?

Does this bother anybody but me?

It bothers me as well...

One thought would be that Obama isn't big on religion and people know this; so he may just be appeasing the Right during the ceremony, all the while scheming to destroy the infrastructure of all organized religion during his reign...

One can dream anyways...





Yes We Can!

You should begin by looking deep within your own soul, then ask why it bothers you.

Prayers whether you believe or not are harmless, they threaten no one and should bother no one.

I am watching as well and am displeased with it. There is nothing wrong with a prayer or even an acknowledgement of God but this day is for the President...not his/some of America's religious inclinations.

Seperation of Church and State is a lot more difficult when this seems to be a major focal point of the public relations of the inauguration...

I have no problem with it at all.

Prayer, and more specifically others religious views, don't threaten me in the least. It's not harming anything or anyone, and shouldn't matter in my opinion.

They can pray and carry on as much as they want to, but at the end of the day it's the job they do that matters.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
You should begin by looking deep within your own soul, then ask why it bothers you.

Prayers whether you believe or not are harmless, they threaten no one and should bother no one.

The prayers being offered up at the moment on a national stage, in association with the inauguration of a political figure, are not benign. They are part and parcel to the religious chokehold the United States is suffering under, and a furtherance of a culture that admits no leader who does not first profess an allegiance to the holy trinity. A nonbeliever has no hope of election in our country, as demonstrated by public opinion, and perpetuating this overwhelming emphasis on the Christian faith will do nothing to limit this. For an atheist American like me, this is troublesome.

[edit on 20/1/09 by paperplanes]

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Seperation of Church and State is a lot more difficult when this seems to be a major focal point of the public relations of the inauguration...

I said almost the exact same thing to my girlfriend at the time! Whatever happened to Church & State being separate? Hmmmm

However, I did find that priest at the end to be good value..

"when the yellow man can be a mellow man"
"when the red man can get ahead man"

LOL - PURE GOLD!!!


IRM

yeah I could of done with a little less but whatever man.
Unlike some posters on here I have a life to live.
Move on and quit [snip].



Mod Note: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

I wondered if Warren was preaching or praying myself.

While prayer is a good thing, I too think they took this a bit too far. Yet from the patriotic songs to the cash in our pockets, god is always mentioned.

I agree that the next barrier is a non Christian president, that will be another day that we can celebrate the true nature of this nation. Freedom of religion should extend to the White House.

The common misnomer regarding "Separation of Church and State" is that the Constitution protects people from having to endure prayer or the invocation of God - WRONG!!!!

The notion of separation of church and state was introduced by Thomas Jefferson in the Danbury Letter addressed the the Danbury Baptists, a religious minority, who were complaining that the local government was not granting them immutable rights to practice their religion but as a "priviledge" or "Favors granted."

As a result, the "Establishment Clause" was written and became the First Article of the Constitution, reading: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

In short, the Clause prohibits the government from establishing a state-sponsored religion or compelling the adherence to any preferred religion by the government. Also important to note is the next statement "Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." It makes no reference to the practice of prayer, invocation of God or other religious activity held in conjunction with state or federal events.

Modern secularists often complain that by invoking God's Name or reciting prayer the state is, in fact, establishing a religion. They couldn't be further from the truth. The founding father's of the nation were Puritans and Protestants. God was very much a part of the founding of this nation as it was their believe that God the Creator bestowed upon all living peoples certain inalienable rights; the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Whose rights were NEVER to be infringed upon.

The Establishment Clause sought to clarify that in the pursuit of freedom and happiness, any person may choose to practice whatever religion suits them, or none at all. However, NO ONE shall prohibit the free exercise thereof either. It did not then, nor does it now, guarantee to silence those practitioners of religion in order to protect the overly-sensitive secularists. As a result, you secularists are going to need to respect BOTH sides of the First Ammendment - No one will force you to practice a religion whereas YOU MUST ALLOW others to do so while not abridging their freedom of speech.

Common sense rules the day. YOU, secularists, or not protected by any law or bill guaranteeing that you will not be offended by the rights of free speech exercised by others. If you are offended then it is YOUR responsibility to remove yourself from the situation or simply ignore that with which you disagree. I'm sorry, and millions of others agree, the Constitution is NOT up for revision to suit your agenda.

Edited to add: If you read the Article it states "Freedom OF religion" NOT "Freedom FROM religion". Sorry, you lose!

[edit on 20-1-2009 by kozmo]

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
You should begin by looking deep within your own soul, then ask why it bothers you.

Prayers whether you believe or not are harmless, they threaten no one and should bother no one.

I think 'paperplanes' succinctly addressed why prayers are not always seen as benign and why they do bother some of us when invoked by a government. Not only do they potentially create religious divisiveness, but they also trend towards a Higher Power being "The Decider" . What we need most as a nation, IMO, is not only lack of divisiveness, but for the PTB to be held legally and ethically accountable.

Accountability and fallibility is often hard for those who believe that it is God's will and they are not in control of their own destiny. The guy who just left office being a prime example of that.

can't say i was too fussed about Warren's prayer and what was up with this bit?

We now commit our new president and his wife, Michelle and his daughters, Malia and Sasha, into your loving care.

that's something said at funerals over here.

Rick Warren's whole prayer made me uncomfortable and I am not entirely clear why. I think it was his delivery, but I am going to go find the text -- actually I am going to go find the text for all of the days prayers. And then we can muse over that.

But I will say, IRaineI, that bit felt very odd to me too, and that is something we say at funerals in the US as well. (He also lingered and kinda hissed the kinds names, which was weird to me).

[edit on 20-1-2009 by TheWayISeeIt]

OK, well... I guess this thread is just going to evolve into how everyone was personally offended by a prayer. As opposed to understanding the legal underpinnings of such prayer.

Secularists don't like facts when they don't support their agenda. As you can see from the progression of this thread - they simply ignore it, gloss right over it. So typical

Here's the text of Warren's Prayer.


Almighty God, our Father:

Everything we see, and everything we can’t see, exists because of you alone.


It all comes from you, it all belongs to you, it all exists for your glory.


History is your story.


The Scripture tells us, "Hear, O Israel, the LORD is our God, the LORD is one." And you are the compassionate and merciful one. And you are loving to everyone you have made.

Now today we rejoice not only in America’s peaceful transfer of power for the 44th time, we celebrate a hinge point of history with the inauguration of our first African American president of the United States.


We are so grateful to live in this land, a land of unequaled possibility, where a son of an African immigrant can rise to the highest level of our leadership. And we know today that Dr. King and a great cloud of witnesses are shouting in heaven.

Give to our new president, Barack Obama,

the wisdom to lead us with humility,


the courage to lead us with integrity,


the compassion to lead us with generosity.

Bless and protect him, his family, Vice President Biden, the Cabinet, and every one of our freely elected leaders.

Help us, O God, to remember that we are Americans--united not by race or religion or blood, but to our commitment to freedom and justice for all.


When we focus on ourselves, when we fight each other, when we forget you--forgive us.

When we presume that our greatness and our prosperity is ours alone--forgive us.


When we fail to treat our fellow human beings and all the earth with the respect that they deserve--forgive us.


And as we face these difficult days ahead, may we have a new birth of clarity in our aims, responsibility in our actions, humility in our approaches, and civility in our attitudes—even when we differ.

Help us to share, to serve, and to seek the common good of all.


May all people of good will today join together to work for a more just, a more healthy, and a more prosperous nation and a peaceful planet.


And may we never forget that one day, all nations--and all people--will stand accountable before you.


We now commit our new president and his wife, Michelle, and his daughters, Malia and Sasha, into your loving care.

I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life—Yeshua, 'Isa, Jesus [Spanish pronunciation], Jesus—who taught us to pray:

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name.


Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.


Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.


And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil,


for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.


Amen.


Now I know why I was uncomfortable....

Separation of Church and State is actually derived from a letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 to answer a letter from them written in October 1801....."I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

This was an interpretation by Jefferson in part of the first amendment of the Bill of Right's and written in a personal letter from Jefferson.

I bet the first presidents also offered up prayer.
This is a Nation Under God.
You do not have to believe it, that is your rite and you have that freedom,
but that does not mean you can take it away from this county. It has been here since the beginning.

reply to post by kozmo


kozmo, don't get your panties in a twist. You made a valid point. But the topic of this thread is not to say there is no room for prayer, but the amount of it and the calling upon of God throuout the ceremony seemed excessive and made some of us uncomfortable.

I am personally musing out loud as to why that is and believe I too have made a valid point in regards to Bush jr. in how he hid behind his Higher Father when asked why he did not regret any decisions he has made.

And I think that regardless of our religious or political leanings we can all agree that Bush's lack of regard for questioning his decisions has left this country a worse place than what it was when he took over.

Right, the Chokehold.

My wife and I couldn't stand it, and turned the channel; flipped back when this invocation to satanism was completed.

They've got no business shoving this into the whole World's face. Some have no use for the strangling usage of dogma that perpetuates darkness upon humankind. They think they are worshipping some kind of savior: right, but it is in reality an Invocation to the King of the World, Satan, the actual flip-face of the jesu-coin the christians so mindlessly-blindfully shovel upon Free Minds.

Obama had no choice: if you're President, you do what looks right, at least in the beginning. I don't consider him a hypocrite, like the last one was.

Yeah, it made us sick. Here's Freedom, now put my yoke back on, fools.
Rubbish.

If you read the Constitution...it does not say separation of Church and state...it says the government shall not establish a state religion.


This means we do not have an Official religion like England does. Everyone is free to worship in their own way. If you read all the founding fathers works , you will be informed that they pleaded with us to keep prayer and Worship and the Fear of God in all our dealings.

The Bible was the first and only textbook in public schools for several generations.

The following patriots were all very eloquent when writing and speaking about religion. They all said it was important and would help the success of our nation...as it did.

John Adams
John Hancock
Samuel Adams
Elias Boudinot
Charles Carroll
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
Patrick Henry

They were all deep believers who prayed in public every chance they got.

[edit on 1/20/2009 by Missing Blue Sky]