Obama to crowds: 'I love you back'

Obama to crowds: 'I love you back'

www.cnn.com

"What is required is a new declaration of independence, not just in our nation but in our own lives -- from ideology and small thinking, prejudice and bigotry -- an appeal not to our easy instincts but to our 'better angels,' "

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Corrected title

[edit on 19-1-2009 by dbates]

So Obama thinks we need a new Declaration of Independence in our Nation from ideology and small thinking. Just what does he define as "ideology and small thinking"? This is dangerous rhetoric. I heard him say this on TV - definitely a "WTF" moment.

FYI - the reference to one of Lincoln's speeches was the "better angels" part, NOT the DOI reference.

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

New doesn't always mean better or worse. Hear him out. It's not like he is just gonna write a piece of paper and replace the old one. But you gotta go with the times. Who knows, he might just get rid of what some of the current loopwholes lets those politicians do.

Kind of ironic, don't you think.

Across the nation, people, on all sides of the aisles, are dissatisfied with the government. They consider the system to be corrupt and not representative of them, the people.

Obama calls forth for a new Declaration of Independence, the very document at the core of what it means to be an American, a Patriot, to be Free...

...and it is dangerous rhetoric.

You're right. It is dangerous. It is just as dangerous as it was when the American Forefathers wrote the original, after growing weary of the tyranny and corruption of the English Monarchy. And who knows where such a movement could lead...no doubt, a line would be drawn, between those who are happy with the way things are...and those who are not and want to try something new....

...but until we see a modern-day Constitutional Convention...one musn't get bent out of shape over an attempt at inspirational rhetoric for a people and a time that are less than inspired.

He does something familiar...he's attacked for it.
He does something different..he's attacked for it.

I for one am all for a "New Declaration of Independence"...as well as a new Constitution....I think it is high time that America take a long, hard, and honest look at herself and evolve.

I don't think it is a "WTF" moment...I think it a rare moment of honesty and clarity.

[edited for spelling]

[edit on 18/1/09 by madhatr137]

You are completely taking him out of context, he means we need to declare personal independence.

Originally posted by Benarius
New doesn't always mean better or worse. Hear him out. It's not like he is just gonna write a piece of paper and replace the old one. But you gotta go with the times. Who knows, he might just get rid of what some of the current loopwholes lets those politicians do.

Sorry man, but anything "New" in the political system in this country, is almost ALWAYS bad. "New" is what serves them, and has nothing to do with us, with the exception of control and power over us...

How about I declare myself independent from the extortion that is taxation and the absurdity that is drug law? I'd also like to declare my independence from every oppressive and useless to combat crime ATF law imposed on me.

Hell, I'd like to just declare myself independent of the fed and all the inclusive BS therein.

Sound good to you, Obama?

new Declaration of Independence in our Nation from ideology and small thinking

Independence from ideology -- like considering what works instead of whether its Republican vs Democrat/ conservative vs/ liberal?
and small thinking -- like spending money on pork to make a few constituents happy even tho it does no-one else any good, or everyday people thinking about the price of gas at the pump instead of the bigger cost to our security and independence as a result of our dependence on fossil fuels ?

Geez, I think there is more than a little room for greater independence from ideology and small thinking.
He is actually re-framing some of the problems to make them more solvable. Good for him.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by wayno]

reply to post by madhatr137


There is only one thing wrong with the Constitution we have today. We don't fight for it. We let them get away with what they want, and have lost our Republic because of it. I say we fight for what's ours to begin with, and restore what our forefathers created for us. New isn't always better. Our Constitution is perfect the way it is, we just have to make sure our leaders follow it. After all, isn't it every Americans duty to defend it?

reply to post by willzilla


I disagree. It is a different time with a different set of concerns. I'm not saying throw everything that is old out, but we, as a nation, really need to do a lot of introspection to figure out who we really are, where we are, and where we want to go...but that verges on a completely different topic.

reply to post by willzilla


I agree, the problem was never with the constitution, but with people remaining ignorant about how our government works. This allowed the government to exploit us.

"We are here today not simply to pay tribute to those patriots who founded our nation in Philadelphia or defended it in Baltimore, but to take up the cause for which they gave so much. The trials we face are very different now, but severe in their own right. Only a handful of times in our history has a generation been confronted with challenges so vast. An economy that is faltering. Two wars, one that needs to be ended responsibly, one that needs to be waged wisely. A planet that is warming from our unsustainable dependence on oil.

"And yet while our problems may be new, what is required to overcome them is not. What is required is the same perseverance and idealism that those first patriots displayed. What is required is a new declaration of independence, not just in our nation, but in our own lives -- from ideology and small thinking, prejudice and bigotry -- an appeal not to our easy instincts but to our better angels."

I disagree with some posters here who have referred to this statement as rhetoric. There is nothing rhetorical about his statements.

Our new President asserts quite clearly that he considers we are lacking in living up to the standing principles of the declaration because we fail to preserve the "perseverance and idealism that those first patriots displayed."

I find this a rather surprising opinion, only because our 'founding fathers' went to extraordinary lengths to diligently and faithfully achieve that end when they instituted our first document of National Doctrine, the Constitution of the United States of America.

And it is his world, that of the body politic, that has diligently and with steadfast purpose, sought to circumvent every limitation of government; effectively diminishing power of the citizens themselves. Party affiliation notwithstanding, the last century (at least) has found the people as bound and gagged witnesses to an ever downward spiral - away from the concepts those same forefathers wanted us NEVER to relinquish. And yes, he participated in the perpetuation of that erosion and dismantling as much as any other of his peers. He certainly never resisted the decay, or he could never have been supported by his own party.

Consensus and compromise were to be the hallmark of the governing process in this country. Now it is about elite, non-public positions and ideology. Can one man, even a President, change that? Will he, could he be compelled to? I am pessimistic about the possibilities; and eager to be pleasantly surprised.

Truth is, it is not the common people of this nation who seem deaf to "the better Angels of their nature"; it is those with voice and power to exercise control. Those who participate the established governance at such a level don't ever seem to arrive to that point until they are committed to regard such things a 'consensus and compromise' as weaknesses. Subterfuge and self-perpetuating cronyism seems more there forte.

I'd go on, but after being told in another thread that I am too verbose to be understood, I don't want to push my luck.

I really do hope that this is a prelude to Obama truly acting on making changes in the way this country operates. The idea of empowering the people and reminding us that WE are this nation is very encouraging to me. I do not see the negative 'WTF moment' cited by the OP but that is MHO.

Originally posted by Maxmars

Truth is, it is not the common people of this nation who seem deaf to "the better Angels of their nature"; it is those with voice and power to exercise control. Those who participate the established governance at such a level don't ever seem to arrive to that point until they are committed to regard such things a 'consensus and compromise' as weaknesses. Subterfuge and self-perpetuating cronyism seems more there forte.

...Emphasis is mine. I strongly disagree with this sentiment. Yes, those in power are also are 'deaf' as are 'we the people' but I do not for one second believe that 'we the people' are listening.

First off, so many today act like those in power appeared there miraculously of their own accord, a profound untruth. They were put there by US. They are rally no different than us other than the opportunities to act that they are given. Their inaction can be held against them, but it can be held against us as well for not standing up as a people and demanding 'right action' on the part of our representatives.

We the people have the needed force to create change, yet we don't.

The prevailing ethic of our fellow citizens of today is based on 'keeping our heads down' and 'getting by'...it is 'another day another dollar' or a 'six pack and the game', we inundated by tittytainment.

We are the change so many of us desperately want to see, so why do we not see it?

Putting this off on the elected officials is a cop-out and is nothing more than making excuses for the failures of 'we the people' and subscribing to it will do nothing but prevent US from waking up.

reply to post by Animal


I admit that the statement I made, and you quoted, wasn't specific enough to convey that I don't think that it is only them who are guilty of choosing the easy path of political expedience or instant gratification. Apologies. I agree that many Americans are apathetic and or somehow blissfully unaware of the layer of reality that seems to be the truth behind the institutions that serve us.

I don not however completely agree that the simple acquiescence and apathy or lethargy of the people is entirely a natural state of affairs. I think we actually do live in a world where most of what we are told to believe is a construct, and the attitudes of the naive are in part at least, manufactured and nurtured by those who prefer to consider us 'useless eaters.' Or simply sources of labor and wealth - to be maintained as one would maintain a herd.

Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by Animal

 

I don not however completely agree that the simple acquiescence and apathy or lethargy of the people is entirely a natural state of affairs. I think we actually do live in a world where most of what we are told to believe is a construct, and the attitudes of the naive are in part at least, manufactured and nurtured by those who prefer to consider us 'useless eaters.' Or simply sources of labor and wealth - to be maintained as one would maintain a herd.

Well said, a sentiment I have to agree with. While I do agree I still hold to what I said in my post, to lesser degree, that 'we the people' bear a larger responsibility in this. While we are definitely victims of circumstance be it poor education, indoctrination, catapulted propaganda or what have we we still each and every one of us bear a responsibility to act according to our own internal morality.

Still I take your point and to a large degree I agree with it. Well said mate.

This guy Obama fails before he starts, what a loser. Tear down the very core of our principles? Yeah right, he should have told us this crazy crackpot stuff when he was running for office.

Main Entry: ideology
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: beliefs
Synonyms: articles of faith, credo, creed, culture, dogma, ideas, outlook, philosophy, principles, system, tenets, theory, view, Weltanschauung

thesaurus.reference.com...

How would you be reacting or responding had BushII or even Clinton had said these words just days before his Inauguration?

I personally am very content with my personal views, thoughts and opinions on all of the above.

Thank you very Much!

Originally posted by SectionEight
This guy Obama fails before he starts, what a loser. Tear down the very core of our principles? Yeah right, he should have told us this crazy crackpot stuff when he was running for office.

Perhaps you did not read his statement in full. No where does he allude to an actual rewriting of the declaration of independence, the idea itself does not even make sense as we have been 'independent' for over 250 years.

I know it must seem like an excellent opportunity to attack the man who you dislike so much, but sadly this is only an illusionary opportunity.

I am going to take a guess here.......I doubt this has anything to do with the type of Declaration of Independence we truly need.

We need to re-Declare our Independence from the FEDERAL RESERVE. That would be worthwhile, but Obama is pushing his version which is rather irrelevant to our real problems.

reply to post by ACEMANN


Its definitely rhetoric, but I don't think its dangerous, at least not yet. It sounds a lot like the same meaningless, feel-good garbage that we've heard over and over not only from his campaign during the fall, but from countless past politicians as well.

The time for speeches is coming to an end. Soon, it'll be time for him to produce results. For my part, I think that he is in way over his head and that his VP is one of the more dangerous politicians in the country.

Fun times ahead.