Forget canned foods - Buy the staples - Flour, sugar etc.

Is there some place that lists the shelf life of foods and provide ways to store foods correctly?

Such as how long does properly stored rice last for?

Originally posted by Cauch1
Have you tried freeze- or vacumn-dried foods they last almost forever and can be fruits meat etc.

Exactly! I've stocked up on quite a bit of Mountain House freeze dried products (pouches and cases of #10 cans). Honeyville is also a good source for beans, peas, grains, powered eggs and butter and milk, and freeze dried fruit. Once rehydrated, freeze dried is almost indistinguishable from fresh. Freeze dried costs a bit more, but like you said it stores for a long time, and all you need to add is hot water. And, if/when disaster strikes, that $35 #10 can of freeze dried chicken will likely not only seem cheap, but it may be the ONLY chicken available for miles around. And, those pouches are great, all you need is some means to boil water, and a spoon, because you can prepare and eat right out of the pouch. Mountain House even has a 7 day survival pack of pouches that you can buy for $99 (don't pay more, shop around on the internet and you'll find out who is the best deal on this stuff). Of course, also stock on pales of things needing preparation too. A pale of split peas for example is cheap, and easy to prepare into a soup. Add to that mix some freeze dried ham and carrots and some salt, and you'll not only be eating well, but cheaper than that junk filled with grease and lard that they sell in the grocery stores. Oh, and freeze dried is light weight to ship and transport. If one shops right, you could spend $1000 and have enough food to last one person for a year (or 12 for a month!).

So it sounds like its best to have a bit of everything? I have always stored the canned stuff and water, but found the dry stuff a bit of a problem because of critters!

But, more importantly, ok you've got food covered now what about heat? how much wood or gas should we store up, 1 year, 2 years and what does that compute to???

Finally, we should all have a plan for air . . . yes, air suppose we have a super valcano in yellowstone . .. what do you do . . . in my mind you should have lots of duct tape, sealant, plastic and other materials to seal up windows, doors, chimneys, etc. . . . than OK, your house is sealed up and now you have another problem carbon dioxide from your family breathing . . . shut . . . easy, have enough indoor plants to intake the CO and convert to O . . . no indoor plants, than you better have a plan to dig some up and replant and move indoors quickly!

Just a few of my thoughts, but I would like an answer on the heat question! Thanks

Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn
reply to post by Wotan

 

Maybe I am wrong but I would think that the lesser palatable items would be better. At least that way you don't eat up all of your supplies just because they taste good.

Well, each to their own. If you have to hunker down for a reasonable amount of time, I personally would rather have a tasty and varied diet than a bland same old, same old diet. Whatever way you want to do this, having a rationing system and some self-discipline will be neccessary to make your food store last.

Growing your own to suppliment your store is fine and should be on everyones list of things to do ....... but ......... Unless you are already growing your own, it will take time, a season or two to reap the benefits of what you have sown. A SHTF scenario is not the time to start learning how to grow your own, too many things can and do go wrong.

Originally posted by mel1962
But, more importantly, ok you've got food covered now what about heat?

Charcoal! Coal! If you have a place to store it, you can get a truck load of coal dumped just about anywhere. I have some bottled propane but I'm going to rely on bags of charcoal because it's the cheapest and easier to store. Living in an apartment I haven't room for a pile of wood. With charcoal, I can heat enough boiling water with one or two briquettes for each meal, and there are quite a few of them in each bag.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Great Idea, I didn't even think of that, do you mean the charcoal you buy for a grill???

Originally posted by mel1962
reply to post by Divinorumus

 

Great Idea, I didn't even think of that, do you mean the charcoal you buy for a grill???

Yup, the match light kind. You can make your owe little burner for it too. Just don't cook with it inside the house.

No matter what food you have, you are now the target for those around you without food, if you cook, the smell will drift alerting others to the presents of food during a shortage.
Storing flour or oats runs the problems of weavles ect... not to bad if you don't mind eating them (wouldn't bother me) plus vermin like mice and rats will also be scavaging for food stuffs you have stored, unles stored in tight sealable containers.
even if you get onto the outskirts of a city, there will still be roaming bands looking for food, start a fire, draw atention to yourself.

Wilderness survival is the thing for a worse case scenario.

Just remember that hungry people will do desperate things to feed not only themselves, but also their families.

Originally posted by munkey66
No matter what food you have, you are now the target for those around you without food, if you cook, the smell will drift alerting others to the presents of food during a shortage.

That's why each recipe should include an ounce of lead and gun powered! I don't have a problem with dropping a human that thinks they are entitled to what's rightfully mine! I can use their carcass to feed my pets.

Originally posted by Divinorumus
Charcoal! Coal! If you have a place to store it, you can get a truck load of coal dumped just about anywhere. I have some bottled propane but I'm going to rely on bags of charcoal because it's the cheapest and easier to store. Living in an apartment I haven't room for a pile of wood. With charcoal, I can heat enough boiling water with one or two briquettes for each meal, and there are quite a few of them in each bag.

Using charcoil indoors isn't really advised, regardless if you're using a little or a lot.

Originally posted by jerico65
Using charcoil indoors isn't really advised, regardless if you're using a little or a lot.

Yup. But you can use it outside. With freeze dried food, I can boil a few cups of water out on the balcony and watch the riots below on the streets, then bring it inside and add it to a freeze dried meal and wait 10 minutes. Presto, Pasta Primavera with tender chicken and fresh tasting veggies in minutes, with no cooking smells to entice the entitlement crowd to your doorstep. Also, if you haven't completely burned up a charcoal piece, place it into a jar with some sand in the bottom and screw a lid on it. It will extinguish itself pretty quickly once the oxygen has depleted and you can dust off the burnt ash and use these saved pieces later.

BTW, here's another tip. Invest in one of those astronomical laser pointers. When you run out of bullets fending off the entitlement monkeys that think they deserve your stuff, you can blind them as they come at ya with ill intent. A nice convenient silent weapon.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by Divinorumus]

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by munkey66
No matter what food you have, you are now the target for those around you without food, if you cook, the smell will drift alerting others to the presents of food during a shortage.

That's why each recipe should include an ounce of lead and gun powered! I don't have a problem with dropping a human that thinks they are entitled to what's rightfully mine! I can use their carcass to feed my pets.

Unfortunately most of the kind that he is speaking of roam in packs and out number you and out gun you. The best thing is to fly beneath the radar and not stick out. They will take from you what they chose and that includes your life.

Originally posted by munkey66
Storing flour or oats runs the problems of weavles ect... not to bad if you don't mind eating them (wouldn't bother me) plus vermin like mice and rats will also be scavaging for food stuffs you have stored, unles stored in tight sealable containers.

You will not be able to avoid all bugs from getting in your dry staples. Do the best you can to keep your dry goods in air tight containers and in a cool dry place but if you if you find a bug or two or three well just remember that they are a good source of protein.

Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn
Unfortunately most of the kind that he is speaking of roam in packs and out number you and out gun you. The best thing is to fly beneath the radar and not stick out. They will take from you what they chose and that includes your life.

Agreed. If one can, escape into the wilderness or a small country town or farm. If you know of relatives or friends that own a farm, they are the ones to hook up with NOW, as they will need your help just as much as you'll need theirs.

If all hell breaks out, a country farm will be the place to be. People will be a lot more friendly and less volatile out there in the country than the desperate millions stranded like Katrina victims in the cities. And way out there, marshall law won't mean a dang thing to anyone.

Even if you know of nobody that owns a farm, approach one and ask if they could use your help in exchange for some help. You'll have a better chance of planting some crops way out there than in your neighborhood back yard garden where anyone could come along and pick it clean the day before you planned to.

If you do plan to hang out in the city, make emergency plans with your friends to team up for survival. You don't want to ride this out alone unless you have someone or a large bad ass dog to guard you while you sleep. Even before mass chaos breaks out, hook up with your neighbors and plan on taking turns patrolling your neighborhood and/or apartment buildings. Gang bangers and thieves are already breaking into buildings stealing anything that ain't nailed down.

Anyhow, back to the food thing. It may also help to make sure your neighbors are well prepared too. The better prepared they are, the fewer of them you may have to take down if things get ugly. I don't even want to have to be faced with a begging neighbor who is looking for food to feed their children, I do not want to have to choose between ME or their children surviving. Personally, I plan to leave town for an isolated location with about a dozen friends. We've already had this all worked out over a year ago, and each understand that they must personally take measure to insure they have enough provisions on hand until a crop of food can be harvested from the fields. Those that fail to prepare will NOT be invited. Sorry, but they were forewarned. Failure to prepare is to prepare for failure.

Oh, and also (forgot to mention earlier), freeze dried food has another advantage too: no water waste. Unlike having to boil noodles with so much water that must be discarded afterwards, freeze dried food wastes no water. While I have enough water here to hold up for a few months if I waste none of it, if I have to flea I won't be trying to haul it all away with me, it's just too much weight. I have a small still that I can use to distill water from a lake. While it does require a heat source, it is meant for longer periods of having to live out in a remote area where there are trees for fuel and lakes for water.

Water would be of the utmost importance first of all. Berkey makes a wonderful filter that will rid water of even the worst nasties (ie lake or pond water).

www.berkeyfilters.com

Secondly it is important to know how to store the "staples" properly:

*Flour~Putting flour in the freezer for approx 4 hours at 0 degrees and then wrapping it in a black trash bag will help prevent spoilage. Also storing in a cool dark area will help to extend the shelf life from 10 months or so to around 18 months.

*Wheat/Rice~Storage in empty pastry buckets is best for these items. You can buy these or possibly get them from a local grocery store that is not using them any longer (the bakery). Mixing diatomaceous earth (DE) with these grains will KILL any bugs that would/could/should be in them or could get into them. It does one of two things: dries out their exoskeletons and they die OR it acts on their legs and outer exoskeletons like shards of glass and will kill them dead. There is no known insect that can survive it. (Food grade is also excellent for the body). The best way to seal these buckets is beeswax melted around the edge for long term storage.

As a side note to the person asking above: Rice can stay good for as long as 10 years (or longer) if stored properly with DE. Wheat can stay good for many years but I am unsure of how long.

*A food dehydrator would be an excellent idea as well. I have found a solar one called Food PANtrie. I am awaiting mine in the mail and they are very hard to find, so if you are going to get one, I suggest getting one now. I feel that the perks to dehydrating as opposed to canning is reduced bulk and storage area needed.

*Canning butter is a skill that I have been practicing this year. Google it (Or better yet, scroogle.org it if you don't like Google practices) Instead of buying powdered butter (which would require water to rehydrate and in a shtf scenario, water may not be readily available).

*Canning "Hamburger Rocks" is another good skill to have. You can effectively squeeze 6lbs of dehydrated meat into one quart jar. This one would require water to rehydrate but if you are planning for long term storage, water will be on your list of storage items anyway. (Be sure to get good plastic containers that will not leach into the water)

*Eggs~Although I have not had the time to research this theory personally I have read that a fresh egg can be stored for a year by dipping it in beeswax and then burying it in a bucket of salt. I am not sure of the truthfulness of this one because I have not tried it myself...and personally..would have a hard time doing so. Instead, I bought chickens!!!

*It's all well and good to plan for "enough storage" until you can grow food on your own, but that won't be much good with no seeds. Seeds need to be a part of storage plans. May I suggest that you don't just go to your local K-Wal-Targ and buy them either. Most of them are hybrid and although they are fine the first year, you never know what you will get your second. Buy heirloom/organic seeds if at all possible. I found a very good source this year at www.tinyseeds.com and they have $3.95 shipping on all orders.

*Watch out for MRE's. Most all of them contain MSG and that isn't healthy for anyone especially in a survival situation. You need to be at peak health.

Hope this was helpful.

::edit:: for my grammar because it's really late and I am tired.

[edit on 17-1-2009 by jenmckin]

reply to post by Rasputin13


Here is a web page that sells proper modern rations for £13 www.meanandgreen.com

as far as I can tell what they are selling is genuine. It looks like the real deal and I've bin using the stuff for years.

And to you wotan yes it can be eaten cold if you want and it is meant to be eaten straight from the pack. It is light weight and had a shelf life of about 15+ years unless the package is accidently pierced. They take up little space and have large amounts of calories they are designed to keep you going in tough conditions. They already have water in they do not need to reconstituted, they have pretty much all the vits, minerals etc. you could need and I suppose if you really wanted to you could repackage them.

reply to post by jenmckin


Great post! It was very informative. It is often the tiny bits of shared wisdom that pull us through in the end. Now what do you know about nature's edibles and the best way to use them to get the best benefit? I know about asparagus or fiddler fern but I am not sure of how to identify it or how to eat it. Same with pine cones. I know that they are edible but not sure how you get to the meat of the matter. You seem to be a well of knowledge so please permit me to have a drink.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


I know that you CAN eat a pine cone...IF you must eat one, fine one that is older and more spread out. The younger ones will still have their "petals" closed and tight. The only edible part is the seeds inside.

As far as I know you can pull the "petals" off and chew on them a bit. But really the most beneficial thing about pine cones is that they burn well but quickly so make sure you have a lot of them if you need to start a fire for any reason.

Other than that...I really know more about herbs and things for healing rather than things you can find edible outdoors.

It's my job (well my specialty anyway)!

the most edible part of the pine cone is the NUTS inside. The pine cone opens up to let the nuts (seeds) fall out. Which means the cones you want will be still sealed. If possible pick them just before they are ready to open or partially opened.

Also, you can make flour out of acorns, but it does take water to leach out the tannins, which are toxic, a stream can help in that process. A small hand held coffee, meal or meat grinder would be a great asset too.

Here is a public service page that explains how to get pure distilled water for emergency usage from the air around you. It can also be applied for regular usage, but if its going to be set up indefinitely, a method of sanitation should be worked out before its built. You wouldn't want to get harmful mold and mildew growing in your water supply.

mb-soft.com...

There are also other subjects listed close to the bottom of the page that might be of interest to some, like a convection type air conditioner that requires no electricity.

We are already making plans to install the water system for emergency usage when the power goes out, which happens quite often in storms, unfortunately.