Life on Mars

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


The plumes are not a slow release. They are seasonal, occurring in the summer, and represent a large volume of gas. This could indicate that the methane is trapped by ice during the winter and released as the ice sublimates. It isn't known whether the same areas release methane on a regular basis.

Something that is almost as interesting as the methane plumes is the fact that away from the plumes there is very little methane found, indication that something (other than sunlight) is "consuming" it.

reply to post by Phage


Didn't the guy say that they are perplexed by the lack of oxidants required to counteract the methane gas?

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Yep. Sure did. It's nearly as much as a puzzle as the origin of the methane in the first place. They mention perchlorates and dust borne peroxides (oxidizing agents) as a possible solution. There's a lot here to keep a lot of scientists happily arguing for a long time.

[edit on 1/15/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Unfortunately this "information" is being released by an American Governmental Agency during the dead of winter. So obviously it isn't current news.


Aside from that, considering they seem so certain of the composition of the atmosphere of the planet and the temperature differentials thereof, I would naturally assume that they have a pretty good idea of the internal temperature of the planet. If not, I could name a few meteorologists I know of that could do better.

Once again, it misses the point that they claim the planet is alive and they give no evidence that it is geological.

reply to post by Phage


"There's a lot here to keep a lot of scientists happily arguing for a long time."

And THIS IS THE POINT HERE.

They gave just enough! Just enough to not mention either way.

However, I would conclude that they are, in fact, hiding things. Like I said, let Obama keep his promise to cut them from funding. We'll know more then.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Not exactly no evidence of geologic activity. There is the evidence of what may be sporadic "waterfalls" which originate below the surface. Something similar may be going on with the methane release. But it is highly speculative. Of course, so is theorizing about biological activity.

The data is very limited. They don't have firm evidence for either scenario. On the other hand, there is no data to rule either scenario out (excluding volcanic action, they are pretty damn sure that hasn't happened for a very, very long time). You can bet there are a lot of very smart people working out the best ways to get data that will help decide the matter.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Once again, it misses the point that they claim the planet is alive and they give no evidence that it is geological.

The truth is that they give no evidence that it is NOT geological either. The researchers have a lot of work ahead of them before they can be certain of anything.

Perhaps in 2011, when the next Mars NASA mission, Mars Science Laboratory, is launched, the scientists will be able to gather more conclusive evidence of what is going on.

You can read about Mars Science Laboratory here if you are interested:
marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
reply to post by Phage

 

Like I said, let Obama keep his promise to cut them from funding.

That would be a bad thing.
Unfortunately, it is a very real possibility.

[edit on 1/15/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by ziggystar60


I feel we are going in circles here and I won't reiterate my question to recall evidence of possible Martian microbial life found in Antartica.

Phage, I think we may be coming to an accord. However, I would conclude that many, many smart people have come to a tentative conclusion that life may in fact exist on Mars. This release only adds credence to this idea when coupled by the lack of evidence to the contrary.

And as far as it being a bad thing about cutting funding to NASA to nill, I disagree.
I happen to think objectively enough to realize that this "announcement" is very coincidal to the fact that Obama threatened to cut funding.
I think that if one were to press the issue further, NASA would be forced to realease more conclusive information.

You see, I think they are covering stuff up, and that can be an argument, if you would wish.

Phage/ZiggyStar: I beg you for about 20 hours pause, if you wish to address my arguments. I am more than willing to resume as soon as I have a chance, but I must spend time with the family before I go to a regular job tomorrow and I will be more than willing to argue ANYTHING you wish to argue tomorrow evening.

Be back later.

Peace.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

I believe they have all the data they need, and then some. I also think that it is more of a matter of being cautious to not stirr up a hornet's nest so suddenly, but gradually.

All those probes, rovers, orbiters, images and scans from a variety of instruments, the span of years doing this data aquisition. Ya I think they got all the data they need to come to a firm conclusion. They are just not saying their conclusions right away. Saving their trump cards for the right moment..like saving the best for when its needed the most.

At this point it doesnt matter. These other nations are not going to wait around for NASA's snail paced, take it to the nth to the 100th factor mulitplyer decimal point, any longer. They are fed up, as is the public and even segments of government are fed up with this NASA nonsense.

Its time for others to step in and get the pace back up to speed where it should be. If not NASA...someone else will gladly go out there and find out for themselves.

The real race to space is only just begining.



Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
And as far as it being a bad thing about cutting funding to NASA to nill, I disagree.
I happen to think objectively enough to realize that this "announcement" is very coincidal to the fact that Obama threatened to cut funding.
I think that if one were to press the issue further, NASA would be forced to realease more conclusive information.

You see, I think they are covering stuff up, and that can be an argument, if you would wish.

Jay, did you see the thread about UFO-files possibly being covered up by NASA..?

reply to post by RFBurns


As I said, I was leaving for the night, but I saw your post as I was logging off...
I can't help but agree here.
However, I think you are missing the point a bit, as you were in the Obama Disclosure thread...
Yes, Obama, can in fact, force these issues and it appears he may be doing so.
1) Cut NASA's funding, or at least threaten to. They will give you every reason in the world next to ours not to.
2) Make Black Budget Oversight possible through Executive Order (btw, did you ever address that on the other thread? Last time I looked, you didn't)

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


It very well may take the threat of shutting NASA down to a miniscule 1 office 2 person operation and divert those funds and vision to outside space agencies.

It might sound outragious, to outsource our desire to get into space and get at the truth, but I will gladly support such a move when for the last 30 years I and many many more Americans and the world have been extremely paitient with NASA and we are FED UP!!!

I say outsource our space efforts. Lets see what Japan, or India or even China have to offer. I think there should be a huge outcry of the public to threaten to cut NASA down to next to nothing and divert our space money to another agency that can "Get Er Done".


NASA..either @#^! or get out of the way!!!



Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR

I feel we are going in circles here and I won't reiterate my question to recall evidence of possible Martian microbial life found in Antartica.

I think the meteorite you are referring to is ALH84001, but it was found in 1984, not 1976.

This is from an article in sciencedaily.com Februar 27, 2001:

An international team of researchers has discovered compelling evidence that the magnetite crystals in the martian meteorite ALH84001 are of biological origin.
The researchers found that the magnetite crystals embedded in the meteorite are arranged in long chains, which they say could have been formed only by once-living organisms. Their results are reported in the Feb. 27 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

"The chains we discovered are of biological origin," said Dr. Imre Friedmann, an NRC senior research fellow at NASA's Ames Research Center in California's Silicon Valley and leader of the research team. "Such a chain of magnets outside an organism would immediately collapse into a clump due to magnetic forces," he said.

www.sciencedaily.com...

The meteorite looks like this:

More images of cut sections here:
www2.jpl.nasa.gov...

Further reading:
www.lpi.usra.edu...


And Jay-in-AR, I happen to agree with you that NASA knows more than they are telling us. I am just trying to present as much available info as possible, and hopefully people will draw their own conclusions.

My personal opinion is that there IS life on Mars.


[edit on 15/1/09 by ziggystar60]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by xynephadyn]

reply to post by Novastar824


The same kind of holes in the desert of Arizona look identical to those on Mars. The movie "Tremors" made a mockery of this issue on purpose and the hole dweller was a worm just like the DUNE book seies. Worm in England is pronounced Wirm and means wingless dragon.Front page headline said "Hunter S. Thompson blows himself away in a bunker behind his home" I say.."Thats a Pink Floyd song"..." Sitting in a bunker,here behind my home,waiting for the worms to come." Maybe all these holes are dragon catacombs and you cant see the dwellers because,as in shapeshifting,they can dimension hop(inter dimensional).Mars is teeming with life we cant see.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR

2) Make Black Budget Oversight possible through Executive Order (btw, did you ever address that on the other thread? Last time I looked, you didn't)

No, but are you aware that both former presidents Carter and Reagan also tried the Executive Order route and both were still denied the access?

Reagan was more outspoken about space, UFO's and aliens than Carter or any other president since. He even addressed the UN about space and aliens. That didnt help his cause any.

What your not understanding about it, is that the black budget oversight is outside of congressional legislation. It is set up to be outside of the grasp of Executive Order. The first step to eliminate that barrier is for congress to eliminate the current laws on the books that allow the black budget projects and the organizations to be so isolated.

Executive Order doesnt apply when the black budget ops are outside of constitutional law. Thats what the problem is. It has to be brought back into the realm of law for any Executive Order to be applicable.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 15-1-2009 by RFBurns]

So few of you seem to be real skeptics. Your posts suggest that you already knew there was life on other planets even thougfh you lacked any objective evidence for such a claim. I do not put a lot of faith into all of the sordid tales of alien encounters that are available on the web simply because we have, as yet, uncovered no clear and convincing evidence that life exists anywhere but here in our universe. Sure, it makes a certain amount of sense to postulate that if life exists on our planet then it must also exist on others, but without any real proof that notion is nothing more than a hopeful speculation. If it could indeed be shown that real living things actually exist beyond our world then it would be a cataclismic find. It would honestly lend a bit of credence to the notion that there actually intelligent beings in the universe, which would be a starting point for honestly rational people to consider that maybe (and it's a BIG maybe) maybe inteligent beings were visiting our planet. I'm much more of an empiricist than most of that post on this website, I'm afraid. You claim that life from other worlds are routinely visiting our planet and interacting with us and I say show me any evidence that life exists beyond our world. If this report turned out to be factual then it would represent a real step forward in your suppositions. Until it is verified I'm afraid I will remain skeptical that life exists on Mars or anywhere else.

reply to post by Phage

Early vulcanism or even cometary impact (as well as life) could have provided that methane.

The comet theory is very unlikely. The amount of methane detected would have required quite large comet. Such an event would hardly have gone unnoticed.
www.latimes.com...

Between 2003 and 2006, the size of the methane plumes decreased, raising the possibility that the release in 2003 was a one-time event that persisted through 2006. One theory is that a comet deposited the methane when it collided with Mars. That's considered unlikely because the amount of methane measured on Mars would require a comet several miles across, an event that would probably have caught the attention of astronomers. Similarly, the winds on Mars, which can produce planetwide dust storms, would have dispersed the methane over the entire planet between 2003 and 2006 if the gas release was a single explosive event. Scientists think the methane could be released on a seasonal basis from certain discrete locations on the planet, presumably where cracks in the surface allow venting from the planet's interior.