Scars of the girl beaten for being English in Scotland.

reply to post by ANNED


WTF?

Don't make assumptions on geography...was born as far up as good old Scotland as it's safe to go. Am a product of few of the oldest clans.

Have travelled far and learned lots. So ram your misplaced nationalism right up ye!

Originally posted by DantesLostPeople need to know that racism isn't just white on black,asian etc.It is white on white,black on black,asian on white,black on white,nationality against nationality etc etc.

Totally agree,

And indeed it happens around the world. Different country's have there own reasons and means to settle fights and arguments. Its a great pity that the one's that do it for fun dont realise what the heck they're doing. I suppose thats the new youth for ya - youth in my country anyway.

A bit on my country, Ireland ----

I was born and raised in Northern Ireland for 32 years before getting the hell out of there. As many of you know, Ireland has had its fair share of Terrorism with the IRA and UDA/Police/Army and Political war going on. I myself lived just on the Outskirts of Belfast City and was witness to all kinds of mindless thugery such as - Petrol Bombing, Car Hijacks, Muggings, Shootings and indeed Bombing, which i personally expierienced having just been very lucky escaping 3 of them.

Racism play's it part in the different factions that seperate the community, Prodestants vrs Catholics. Ive witnessed and have been told story's of beatings and shootings that people including friends have taken, all because of there Religion.

Can you blame me for leaving lol

Im happy to say that whoever made that deal with the IRA to stop bombing and killing after there 30 odd year riegn was the right move for the country. Ok, some will disagree with it getting political as the new way forward but i have to go with saving peoples lives so although i dont agree with our poloticians, at least people are not getting bombed on.

I mentioned youth above because the fighting that still takes place over there STUPID Religion has been passed down a generation just recently. While the young lads are out doing what there fathers taught them to do, there fathers are out selling drugs and sitting in bars all day long. This really makes me ill knowing that the youth are wasting there lives away. Aww well, least i seen the sense!!!!

Incidently, although Northern Ireland is part of the UK and under British Rule i have always called home Ireland. I could never accept the need for a change as religion was not my belief. So Ireland it is


Respect all i say,

Regards

IP

reply to post by asmeone2


I will go further. If we all lived in the same country, and all looked and spoke exactly the same some humans would still find some reason to hate another group of humans. This well and truly is a human problem.

I think the tendency to be this way exists in all of us. I think self awareness, that this isnt "their" problem but all of our problem moves us closer to solution.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by asmeone2

 

I will go further. If we all lived in the same country, and all looked and spoke exactly the same some humans would still find some reason to hate another group of humans. This well and truly is a human problem.

I think the tendency to be this way exists in all of us. I think self awareness, that this isnt "their" problem but all of our problem moves us closer to solution.

Completely agree, but the Scots get high on hating us English. Let them go their own way. They'll be happier and so will we. Scots are known for their hospitality and if we and millstoning their necks, they may be hospitable to us English again. One thing they don't like is force. Perversely us English feel the same.

reply to post by redled


Of course you dont like being forced. No one does. And, I suspect a lot of what you are calling anger is actually hurt feelings. On both sides. Historically, long before they were called "England and Scotland" people on those islands have been happily bashing each other up. If Scotland is left alone long enough, they happily bash at other clans within Scotland. Same here in the US, before the Europeans arrived was it a Utopian paradise? No, the Native tribes were happily bashing each other up. Middle East? Same. Continental Europe? Same. Africa? Same. Asia? Same.

It is the way we have always done things. But, history is not necessarily destiny. It often is, but that is because we wont learn from it. Just the act of saying "Yes but those guys....." is a continuation of it. It isnt them. Its us. ALL of us.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by redledCompletely agree, but the Scots get high on hating us English. Let them go their own way. They'll be happier and so will we. Scots are known for their hospitality and if we and millstoning their necks, they may be hospitable to us English again. One thing they don't like is force. Perversely us English feel the same.

Although what your saying is very true indeed, im in disagreement with your wording.

Not ALL Scots hate the English and not ALL English hate the Scots. It exactly the same with the Irish and English as history shows dividence. Being a strong Irish Celt my reasoning for the Irish and Scots getting on so well is because many of us our related. Alot of Scots came to Ireland and first settled in the North, near Ballycastle. The Irish done exactly the same and settled on the shores of Scotland thus mixing bloodlines = Celtic!! Thats not to say the Irish or Scots didnt go to EnglandWales, they did but not in as large number!

The problem i see with " Hating " each other has to do with " Ignorance " and " Denial ", does it not? Ignorant to yourselves for not showing respect and holding grudges with other and, Denial because you's dont even give it a chance?

Makes one wonder, how are we ever gonna let go of this ego trip " my counrty's best, people an ' all " and start showing each other some respect for who we really are, Please!!!

Regards

[edit on 14-1-2009 by InfoProvider]

The Celtic nations of the British Isles like to fight, but the English don't like to fight, they like to win.

This has lead to a thousand years of English yoke, for which they will never get over. They are holding themselves down, especially since times have changed and not one Scotsman alive today has ever experienced what they are so riled up about, but the Celts, the Scots especially, just can't seem to move with the times.

They languish in England, saying how wonderful Scotland is (without the ability to f*** off back there), and holding on to grievances that are obsolete by two-hundred years, while England makes massive payments to them so they may enjoy a modern standard of living, with free healthcare, education, etc.

I say we rebuild Hadrian's wall, deport all Scots back to the motherland and then never speak of it again, and let them stew in poverty as they really realise that by themselves, they are utterly buggered, and that for a long time now, the English have been their bestest buddies even while the Scots have been bleating on about how awful and terrible we are...

I just can't believe somebody, especially a man, could do something like this to such a lovely and quiet girl.

Well, that's what happens when you ignore the truth of what this planet is, and live in your own little fantasy land. It could have been much worse, considering the evil that inhabits this planet. I could gives some examples of worse things that could happen to this "lovely and quiet" girl, but I'm sure people can work them out for themselves. As horrible as this was, and as wrong as it was, her mother is one of many in denial.

Originally posted by DantesLost
People need to know that racism isn't just white on black,asian etc.It is white on white,black on black,asian on white,black on white,nationality against nationality etc etc.

Spot on. It gets down to supporting a different football team, living in a different state, or even a different local area. People need to stop making pathetic excuses why other people aren't as good as they are, and understand we are all totally equal.

Originally posted by redled
Yes, and in England we don't beat women for being....... women. It is known that Scots beat their women and so it is acceptable.

With no offence intended, I think you are in denial too.


[edit on 15/1/09 by NuclearPaul]

Originally posted by ANNED
just the thing for the English first they took-over scotland then they forcefully transported a large portion of the highland scottish population to there colonies in Australia and North America. and now the wonder why the highland Scots that are left don't like them

en.wikipedia.org...
www.electricscotland.com...

Couldn't agree more, the English have committed crimes against humanity for 100's of years, they've stolen land and murdered and raped innocent people. Do they really expect to be able to walk down the streets in Scotland and not get a little of their own back? And don't give me the whole story about how it was hundreds of years ago and the people living in England aren't to blame, I've heard it all before. They still support the royal family today and they act like nothing ever happened, well guess what people, they are still just as bad today, their just a little better at hiding it. If England would learn to stay out of country's that don't belong to them maybe there country men and women wouldn't be getting bashed in the streets.

I was born in England, but had Irish parents.

Moved to Ireland in my first year, and lived there for a few years before coming back with guess what?
An irish accent.

I still remember the abuse and attempted beatings at school which only went when my Irish accent began to fade away.

fair enough, this was in the 70's at the height of the troubles, but it wasn't just kids having a go at my siblings and I - their parents wouldn't let us play with their kids, or even speak to us.
The parents called us names, and I got more than one clip round the ear for "being a cheeky little paddy ****"

So don't tell me it's a scottish problem.

My dad still remembers the signs in lodging houses when he first came to England:
NO BLACKS
NO DOGS
NO IRISH
So he was considered beneath a dog to some people.

I now live in Cornwall, and because I've lost my Irish accent, have to constantly explain to a minority of people that I'm actually a celt - some cornish people have a problem with the English.
I actually posted a thread about the cornish situation a while ago, but in short, cornwall was always regarded as a separate country.

So even here in one of the most beautifull parts of the world which has some of the nicest people you could meet, there is a tiny minority who hate a person because of their accent or where they percieve that person comes from.

This isn't a problem that any particular country has - all countries have their share of idiots.

reply to post by SG-1-9er


By your statement, just about every European country deserves to get 'bashed in' by some other country.

YES it was hundreds of years ago (mainly) when colonies were a strong part of the world, many European countries had varying empires, America only exists as it does today because of them.

Yes we support the royal family (Well some of us), but last time I checked the Queen isn't over 100 years old....she wasn't around either when this was happening. She is no more to blame than anyone else.

So either, your argument is flawed...or we should all just riot in other countries right now....

I am a very proud Scot and this type of disgusting assault on an innocent young woman is a blight on our nation no matter where they come from. The young lady in question was interviewed on Radio Scotland yesterday and she sounds as English as Billy Connolly, I believe she has spent most of her life in Scotland. I think this was a drunken animal who was intent on hitting anyone regardless of who they were.

My wife is English as are her parents and they have lived in Scotland for the majority of their lives but have managed to retain their accents (Geordie) and they used to get ribbed when ever there was any sporting events but that was pretty much it - nothing ever malicious. Sometimes life is just a bit mean and a bit of a lottery - for example I had heard nothing but what a beautiful city Barcelona is (and it is) great architecture, nightlife, people etc. But I went there with my wife and got mugged by 5 guys and spent a day in the police station with an endless procession of victims with similar tales of woe. Does that mean people from Barcelona are all scumbags? I don't believe so. Does this Aberdonian thug mean that all Scots are woman beating racists?

You be the judge.

Beth

[edit on 15-1-2009 by badBERTHA]

Originally posted by badBERTHA
Sometimes life is just a bit mean and a bit of a lottery - for example I had heard nothing but what a beautiful city Barcelona is (and it is) great architecture, nightlife, people etc. But I went there with my wife and got mugged by 5 guys and spent a day in the police station with an endless procession of victims with similar tales of woe. Does that mean people from Barcelona are all scumbags? I don't believe so. Does this Aberdonian thug mean that all Scots are woman beating racists?

You be the judge.

Beth

[edit on 15-1-2009 by badBERTHA]

couldnt have said it better.

Originally posted by SG-1-9er
Couldn't agree more, the English have committed crimes against humanity for 100's of years, they've stolen land and murdered and raped innocent people. Do they really expect to be able to walk down the streets in Scotland and not get a little of their own back? And don't give me the whole story about how it was hundreds of years ago and the people living in England aren't to blame, I've heard it all before. They still support the royal family today and they act like nothing ever happened, well guess what people, they are still just as bad today, their just a little better at hiding it. If England would learn to stay out of country's that don't belong to them maybe there country men and women wouldn't be getting bashed in the streets.

Where's all the condemnation for this bigot? Everyone ripped into redled yet nothing to be said about the above? Hypocrisy, especially when you consider the first 'racist' comment was made about the English on page1:

Originally posted by NightoftheComet

Brcause the english, as they are to most people, are royal *Bleeps* to other people.

The double standards are sickening to be blunt, can the English do anything right? Why not go 'bash' Frenchmen or Spaniards? Surely Germans would be a better target - at least there are people still alive who lived through those times. No? Didn't think so. Why the English then?

All the English support the Queen? Like hell! I'd do away with them in a heartbeat and save the taxpayer millions in the process. Nothing makes me more angry than bigotry: Illusions has probably summed it up the best, good on ya.

Originally posted by SG-1-9er

Couldn't agree more,

This is literally the dumbest piece of nationalist crap I've ever read.

Originally posted by SG-1-9er

the English have committed crimes against humanity for 100's of years,

Name me one nation that has never committed atrocities, and I will show you a lie.

Do we judge the Italians by the actions of the Romans? Do we judge the French by the actions of the Revolution? Do we judge the Germans for Nazi Germany?

Of course not. Modern thought is simply different to what came before. Before, it wasn't just acceptable to conquer other nations, but it was desireable. If kings were useless at war, but excelled in administration, they were reviled and remembered as failures (think King John after Richard the Lionheart).

By the standards of the day, the English were no more bloody than those around them. See the Mongols or Timur the Lame for some serious body counts, if you are looking for someone to pin the genocide claims on.

Originally posted by SG-1-9erthey've stolen land and murdered and raped innocent people. Do they really expect to be able to walk down the streets in Scotland and not get a little of their own back?

And what raping and conquering had that woman done to that man, specifically? I assume you know precisely, otherwise you wouldn't make such a flagrantly stupid statement, would you?

Originally posted by SG-1-9erAnd don't give me the whole story about how it was hundreds of years ago and the people living in England aren't to blame, I've heard it all before.

Thats because what you heard was called "common sense". Noone living in England has invaded Scotland in hundreds of years.

If your father was a rapist, would you want everyone judging you as if you too were a rapist? You might find his behaviour abhorrent, don't you think it'd be nice to be judged by your own actions?

Originally posted by SG-1-9erThey still support the royal family today and they act like nothing ever happened, well guess what people, they are still just as bad today, their just a little better at hiding it. If England would learn to stay out of country's that don't belong to them maybe there country men and women wouldn't be getting bashed in the streets.

Laughable. We're quite proud of our history - sure, it was bloody, but who's wasnt?

This is the eternal problem with the Scots, Welsh, Irish and French - while they loved a fight, the English loved to win, and win we did, repeatedly. The French got passed this, but the Celts sit there, seething, indoctrinating one generation after the next to hate the English just because their forefathers failed at war.

Frankly, if I were the Celts, I'd be hyping up the part we'd played in the British Empire - why not cling to glory, rather than defeats, like most other nations do?

This is a tragic story and I hope the girl recovers soon and that the lads get locked up for good. I just wish that I was as strong, hard and badass as they are, that would make my life complete (by the way, this is a sarcastic sentence).

My ten pence:

I have lived in Wales during my university days. I was young, I was loud and I was drunk ... a lot of the time and I can attest to the Welsh, from my experience, not being at all bad. I met a lot of Welsh people who did not appear to show any angst towards me.
The only time we got into trouble was when we went to "Welsh Nationalist Pubs" and I am sure I do not need to spell out what these were. However, we were looking for trouble and went their in order to provoke them so anything that came off the back of that is our fault for provoking their racist and hateful natures

In regards to the Scots, I have not been to Scotland but do know Scots here in London and they seem to have no issues in regards to aggression towards the English (maybe that it is because the tables are turned and they are surrounded by English people). It must be a completely different thing for an Englishman or woman visiting Scotland and I have heard many a story of violence pertaining to that scenario.
It is a shame and yes the English have not treated the Scots nicely in the past but that is the past and you cannot move forward if you cling to that.

reply to post by DantesLost

This was a most despicable and cowardly act, for which I would accept no excuse. I do hope that this young lady makes a full recovery both phyisically and mentally.

Reading some of the posts, I wonder why so many people seek to blame the civil population for the actions of their country's Government, often for events that took place centuries ago. I would ask everyone to bear in mind that many of the 'atrocities' referred to as perpetrated by the English, were also visited upon the the English Civil Population too.[Transportation to Australia for example]

It has been my priviledge to know and work with Irishmen, Scotsmen, Welshmen, Americans, French, Burmese, Pakistanis, Indians, Australians, Iranians, and many more, at no time would I think to hold any one of them responsible for the actions of their respective Governments past or present.

I treasure the memories I have of all these good people, and hope to live to meet many more, the most important thing we can all do is to use our votes, and elect Governments that actually represent us [The People] instead of their unseen financial backers.

In love and harmony,

Regards,

Horsegiver.

Originally posted by ANNED
just the thing for the English first they took-over scotland then they forcefully transported a large portion of the highland scottish population to there colonies in Australia and North America. and now the wonder why the highland Scots that are left don't like them

en.wikipedia.org...
www.electricscotland.com...

Right, so if I get attacked by a Scotsman while I'm up there you're saying the reason is this:

At some point in history some long since dead people who have nothing to do with me & weren't acting on my behalf, did something to some other long since dead people that have nothing to do with my attacker (and hasn't affected them personally in the slightest), and as a consequence they hate ME & want to kill me?

Right, well in that case that's perfectly understandable.

This is IDIOTIC.

Any Welsh, Irish, Scottish or Cornish ill feeling towards the English is completely misplaced. When are people going to recognise the difference between royalty and subject? It's vaster than the difference between an Englishman and a Scot. I can understand the ancestral Scottish resentment for what the English LEADERS did to their forefathers, but the average Englishmen was as far removed from making that decision and truly benefitting from it as can be.

It's as idiotic as an Iraqi despising a Brit. Most of us opposed (and even protested) that invasion. It's our leaders who lied to make it happen, and only they who'll benefit from their warcrimes.

I fully support the separate pride and identity Scotland, Wales, Ireland and England are entitled to have. I even support the SNP - if that's what Scotland democratically opts for. But the hate and resentment is misfounded and WRONG. The English are not entirely Anglo-Saxon. In fact, genetic studies show that there's still an enormous amount of Celtic blood in England. (EDIT TO ADD: nor are the Scottish entirely Celtic, what with Germanic Viking invasions). The British Isles were once a relatively unified culture and much of that shared culture still remains.

My fiance and I are visiting the Scottish Highlands next week and we'll be unashamedly basking in the glory of the mountains, the culture and the people. My fiance has Clan blood in her. Most Brits have some ancestry from all parts of the Isles.

We love Scotland. We love Wales. We're yet to visit Ireland, but I'm sure we'll love it.



[edit on 15/1/2009 by Cythraul]

A crime is a crime.

The motives behind the crime do not exarcerbate the seriousness of said crime.

It doesn't matter if a person is beaten up for being Black, being Asian, being English or for her wallet, its equally contemptous.

This has nothing to do with Nationalism and everything to do with a lack of class on the part of the two assailants. Punching a woman... really, thats bloody out of order.