The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

reply to post by No King but Jesus


I'm not saying you're lying about your experiences.

But I can't use other people's personal experiences as a basis for my beliefs. And besides that human perception is too flawed - hallucinations aren't all that uncommon.

However even if I accepted that what you had was a 100% real experience with Jesus I would still be disinclined to believe the Bible due to its logical inconsistencies and morally repugnant teachings.

My mother walked, talked, and touched Jesus during her NDE. But things she learned during her 9 hour of visions...did not all agree to her 'religion'. So who do we as believe? Are we going to assume that her 'visit' with Jesus was 'truth' and that the things she learned of that didnt go along with her Bible are 'truth' also?

And what about mine, that show things the Bible does not speak of> and many others who have had experiences.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


wrong and this is exactly why I think the scriptures were given so everybody can verify the truth and not make up their own "truth" out of thin air (hows that working on inflation with money right now? is'nt it 19-27 y.o. the most affected with unemployment?)-you/no one has any idea what happens after death at least I heard what exactly agree's with a story about a man resurrected in the scriptures verbatum which gives me a great idea of what happens above the next guy just like it says, do you recognize how divided this nation or people are already? (remember a nation or household divided cannot stand) well was Israel or was that a guess/theory/mental/hullicination/lie too?

it is talking about if any ONE man claims to be Jesus the Christ (He does'nt come as a single individual man to be ordained King and suffer again, NOW the Lord is the Spirit), much different then the many part One Body-just like yours and mine! and when you claim "Thee" (by the way where is "Thees" direction for life, where is his guidance, does he communicate in any way with words, what's he say about after we leave this body of skin, where can we verify his truth, does his spirit agree with Jesus or the Apostles and those many over the generations and Today? or are you the only one who knows?) has no name, that is specific to something which I know you got from the scriptures, why so much TRUTH gathered from there as you have admitted but no glory given to? why the treading on all these peoples lives as in vain? all the while you take time to write out of your life and expect to be heard? and yet you say your signature supposedly was Jesus writings when cornered by the Einstien avatar guy???

no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.-1Cor12.3

Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name.-Heb13.15

For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.-Is60.12

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.-1John2.22

For God is not the author of confusion-1Cor14.33

I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "-Luke13.35

He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.-Rev19.13

He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.-Rev19.12

but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.-John5.43

to any that are wondering (I think Leo and Titan have heard before) what is up with this guys writing skills-lol, I have always hated typing/writing failed english since kindergarten- just a thank you in advance for reminding me

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reply to post by No King but Jesus

or are you the only one who knows?) has no name, that is specific to something which I know you got from the scriptures, why so much TRUTH gathered from there as you have admitted but no glory given to? why the treading on all these peoples lives as in vain? and yet you say your signature supposedly was Jesus writings when cornered by the Einstien avatar guy???

What are you talking about 'cornered by the Einstein avatar guy'?

If I quote from a scripture, why cant you see it as its simply because in those words I chose, I found Truth. It doesnt say I call a man Lord nor should it be assumed that I then take all the things acclaimed to Jesus as truth. Why is it a problem for you that I discern what it is all books of man...and seek out the Spiritual wisdom aside from the Earthly wisdom?

Einstein said something great..he said...'only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile'...this was my signature for a long time. I found truth in it, by discernment....but that shouldnt mean to anyone I take all of whatever Einstein said as 'fact' or 'truth'.

Once you have understanding of something, it becomes your own truth...there really is no need to quote because the truth then should be able to be spoken through your heart, your own words, as your truth. Anyone can repeat words....but can you show understanding of it as a truth, in your own words.

reply to post by No King but Jesus


Also, here...

wrong and this is exactly why I think the scriptures were given so everybody can verify the truth and not make up their own "truth" out of thin air

But experiences are not 'out of thin air'...they are very personal to the person that it happens to , often changing their life forever. What if we all have different experiences because the experience pertains to what that soul/spirit complex is ready for or needs guidance or understanding of. So are we to say that only the personal experiences that go along with the Bible are the ones that are 'truth'? All the others just being tricked?

All the scriptures are based on personal experiences....so is every other belief of every other culture out there.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


in nation/household division have you considered world and war and the possibilty or hope of it ending?

On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.-Zech14.9

all who hate me love death-Prov8.36

"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.-John15.18

they refused to repent and glorify him-Rev16.9

Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all-Col3.11

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.-Rev5.6


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reply to post by LeoVirgo


and yet you give me a hard time for quoting what has been shown me? and originally said which now seems like eons ago something to the affect of I'm going to be judged criminally by the whole heavens for my testimony and pasting scriptures?

Leo you are a man(originally made them male and female-Gen) and are writing on something made of the earth to other earth creatures throughout the earth - but suppose if someone took all you wrote and printed it then glued the edges together put a cover on then you would say what about your words written with your hand made of earth? the holy book of thee by leo?

what spoke to me was a Spirit/Invisible being before any scriptures were known and then seen they confirmed

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.-1John4.1


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

and yet you give me a hard time for quoting what has been shown me? and originally said which now seems like eons ago something to the affect of I'm going to be judged criminally by the whole heavens for my testimony and pasting scriptures?

Leo you are a man(originally made them male and female-Gen) and are writing on something made of the earth to other earth creatures throughout the earth - but suppose if someone took all you wrote and printed it then glued the edges together put a cover on then you would say what about your words written with your hand made of earth? the holy book of thee by leo?

what spoke to me was a Spirit/Invisible being before any scriptures were known and then seen they confirmed

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.-1John4.1


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

I dont quote scriptures to reply to people nor to show them quotes as 'truths'. Many people place quotes that they like in their signatures. You dont speak from your heart to show your own personal understandings of all the quotes you paste. I never said the heavens would judge you I more or less says, this shows something about you.

What ever path you are on, is what you are in need of.

I am a female, and if someone wrote my words down, indeed they would be words of a woman and written into a earthly object, and should be discernment by every person that read them on a personal discernment.

Your quotes to prove 'points' are of no value really....just shows you accept the book as total truth and that is the path you have chosen and obviously need right now.


Books are not Holy...no book is holy...it is a earthly object.

[edit on 23-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by No King but Jesus

in nation/household division have you considered world and war and the possibilty or hope of it ending?

The path is perfect, the cycles and orders of duality will lead us to figuring out how to bring heaven to earth, through life itself, through us.

It is the purpose, for us to learn not only as individuals, but as nations, then as a planet.

There is purpose to all of our history that led up to now, and there will be purpose for all the things to come in our future, that will be a part in us growing as 'selves' and as a 'one'.

Its meant to be this way, its not a mistake or error....its not the Spirit's job or plan to 'fix' it all...what meaning to all of this would there be..if God is going to come fix it? We are to move the mountains, we are to go on to do better things, while we each carry our own cross as a 'self'.

Changes take time, as well as catalysts.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


funny I thought you claimed you did'nt like murder/death/sacrifice? I really wonder what you are attempting to say, I know for a fact you sat here one night and said because I believe in Jesus I sacrificed him????-thats crazy, and now you say oh well murder/sacrifice happens??? what was that you were saying about duality? how many slaughtered in just the Bolshevik holocaust? and the Spirit brings to remembrance the scriptures-like specific ones that address whatever or relate to a question or subject, like any words of your "own" or anyone elses are derived from a source that you/whoever learned from something which reveals intentions of heart, ever wonder why tyrants know to brainwash with destructive so called "knowledge" early on?-go see if you can find one shadow of the Mosaic covenant commands from me and see if I understand what dividing Old and New means, you misinterpret my intentions for a reason

The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live-Ecc9.3 see disorder destruction murder sacrifice death

the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.-Heb4.12 see duality conquerer no other name by which men are saved

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress-James 1.27 see true religious Spirit

Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.-Rev11.18 see the true religious subject that matter's as history has shown

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.-Rev20.4 subject MATTER behind all history

If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.-Matt24.22 timing is everything did you know He forsaw a generation in advance of destructive murderous foreign invaders-did He say it is written? did He hear a voice from heaven? did infants see 40 years old?

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."-John18.36 they did'nt and were destroyed cause they could'nt hear THE Spirit of His words that He only heard from The Father nor did they care to-hmm

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.-1Cor7.14 holy and children again worthy subject that matters

Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.-Mal2.15 see


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reply to post by No King but Jesus

funny I thought you claimed you did'nt like murder/death/sacrifice? I really wonder what you are attempting to say, I know for a fact you sat here one night and said because I believe in Jesus I sacrificed him????-thats crazy, and now you say oh well murder/sacrifice happens??? what was that you were saying about duality? how many slaughtered in just the Bolshevik holocaust? and the Spirit brings to remembrance the scriptures-like specific ones that address whatever or relate to a question or subject, like any words of your "own" or anyone elses are derived from a source that you/whoever learned from something which reveals intentions of heart, ever wonder why tyrants know to brainwash with destructive so called "knowledge" early on?-go see if you can find one shadow of the Mosaic covenant commands from me and see if I understand what dividing Old and New means, you misinterpret my intentions for a reason

I have never said 'oh well' murder and sacrifice happens. I said...things have purpose.

You have to discern if the purpose is for learning things of Earth, and ways of flesh.....or learning things of Spirit, things of 'heaven'.

As long as man thinks that someone 'has' to die...they are still learning Earthly things and this is just a marker to show what they are in need of still.

No one had to die....no animals ever had to die (for god or sins that is, by the hands of another). But the paths that are not, lead us to the path that is....so it is just as much needed as the path that is.

Blood sacrifice is a earthly practice, its not of Spirit. But yes, it serves purpose in our process of learning, testing, figuring, growing. Some still hold onto this practice as being 'of spirit' but many are also letting go of it too.

Even though the blood is on the hands of those that simply believe a death had to be done...there will be understanding in WHY they understood this to be so, there is understanding of learning things of earth first, there will be offering of what then they are still in need of.

There is purpose, in the paths that are not.....for they all lead to, the path that is. Where I see a difference in the two, that you do not, is that I see many of the 'rituals' and practices from the bible to be earthly practices, wisdom's of earthly things....the milk before the food is just as important, so yes, it all has purpose.

How can we learn things of heaven if we have not learned things of Earth first?

The part that many arent ready to accept, is that when learning things of heaven/spirit.....one learns that no one is going to come save the day, and that our purpose in experiencing life here is much deeper then just finding the right belief. Its alot for some to handle, that God or Jesus isnt coming to fix what we are to reap of.

People get caught up in the 'self' of life....worry about salvation for the 'self'....in the divine path though, they will learn that the 'self' is not what the Spirit is concerned with, its the entire world, every soul, us as a whole, that the spirit is concerned with. Many just arent ready to accept such things, for they seek fast hope, quick comfort, something without worries. We as a world reap what we sow....its not just on individual basis we do this.

I dont say you should accept what I say...I only share with you what I understand.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


ok so what have you learned about on earth from history by the Spirit of God about Israel being completely destroyed? and do you sense any kind of National threat at all any kind of threat right now?

They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you.-Luke19.44

He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself-John7.18

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reply to post by No King but Jesus

ok so what have you learned about on earth from history by the Spirit of God about Israel being completely destroyed? and do you sense any kind of National threat at all any kind of threat right now?

Are you asking if I can see the future?

The future is malleable...to a point. Its up to the people, what the future holds or at least how soon we can decide we will not divided ourselves anymore.

If we need division (pride and greed) then that is the path that will continue, destruction of things is likely to go hand in hand with that path.

All I know about Israel....is bad things are bound to happen, for the label of a 'special chosen land' by God creates 'pride and greed' amongst the people over something of 'earth'. Completely destroyed, I have no idea.

National threat? I do not know...but we are still divided as a people, we still place walls between our own kind....so Im sure there are many threats to come to some land or another.

As long as we run our decisions and beliefs on pride of ourselves as individuals and separate nations....and greed over 'special lands' or 'special people'....there will be division, division causes chaos.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me-John5.39 (you realize the New Testament in his blood was not confirmed yet right?)

you know a husband leaves a last will and testament for his Bride right? a Name is important in this regard, "THEE" no gotty nada

but this is enough about attempting to esplain the cross He took up for today, the horsey hath been beateneth to smithereens in multiples sooo I think I'll go listen to some Smithereens thanks for the reminder they were a good 80s band see words and names mean somethin even in the most trivial matters, adios

"O earth, do not cover my blood; may my cry never be laid to rest!-Job16.18

Hi

OK, I'm late to join in, but felt that I had to jump in, this is one of the "biggies"

I've somehow acquired a Jehovah's Witness who comes here once a week to discuss the Bible - and even though I'm NOT Christian, I'm impressed with the JW approach - STUDYING the Bible in it's entirety, and THEN drawing conclusions - in their words "gaining accurate knowledge of the Bible".

As I understand it, the JW's would answer most questions raised in the original post, by saying that Satan getting Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit was in effect a challenge to Jehovah's RIGHT to rule over the world he had created. Jehovah's response was to allow (for a while) Satan to be God of THIS WORLD. Effectively, saying "go on then - let's see how well YOU do the job".

(paraphrasing there)

Further, when you get to the book of Revelation, (at the back of the Bible), Jehovah says that eventually he will return, contain Satan, and set the world to rights, wiping away tears, healing the sick, resurrecting the dead. THEN, after 1,000 years Satan will get another crack at diverting these resurrected humans away from worshipping Jehovah before Jehovah kills him completely.

For the sake of argument, let's say this is all true

I have to wonder - why is the promise of "setting the worlds to rights" IN THE FUTURE justification for all the suffering which happened and is still happening in the interim? doesn't seem like the act of a loving God

If Jehovah has precognition and KNOWS that he will contain Satan / then let him out again / then kill him - why would Satan co-operate with all of this?

btw my JW visitor is quite excited by the current upheaval in Egypt - he sees it as another sign that "the end of days" is near!

reply to post by No King but Jesus



Not sure why I never responded to your reply to me...but food for thought, though its late...

He also said 'Pick up YOUR cross...and follow me'.

reply to post by Maxine1969


short answer is, there's huge sections of the text missing from what i can tell. someone is hoarding the real important stuff. we only can catch glimpses of it from the text. as a result, the rest of the data seems only to be available via prayer and requests for more data, and then going to wherever you are lead to find the data, such as other texts, other religions, other sciences, other schools of thought, WHEREVER the spirit leads you. to expect all the answers to be in the bible is only useful if you already have all the info you need. if you need more info, or are interested in learning more, you have to ask the big guy. then wait.

reply to post by undo



Which is impossible for many to do...for the same book that holds some spiritual gems...tells people to not use their own reasoning.

Fills them with fear that if they do seek using their own reasoning...that its likely going to be a trickster that will lead them.

It was hard being raised in a christian home, to release myself from that fear. But once I did...WOW...just WOW.

Many are shackled..to the word 'satan'.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
The Bible contradicts itself a hundred different ways, God is merciful one minute, and condemning human beings to eternal torment the next.

Matthew 19:26 "but with God all things are possible."

If nothing is impossible for God, She could create a rock so heavy that She could not lift it, and still be able to lift it; Since possibile impossibility becomes possible, such as light darkness, or evil goodness or weightless weight, contradicting Herself on numerous occasions in the Bible is not really a problem for a being who can hold two contradictory positions at the same time and still consider Herself to be correct,

When one accepts the contradictory omnipotent (all powerful), all loving, all hating, non jealous, jealous god of the Bible, there is simply no room for rationality, since if nothing is impossible, even irrational rationality becomes possible.

Arguing with a women (i.e., God) is anyway pointless; they are always correct, even when they are wrong.

Lux