Caylee Anthony Case: The shovel and the pavers

Zenaida Gonzalez deserves much more than squat. She not only was wrongfully was implicated in a murder, she lost her job and lives in fear because a lot of people have made death threats against her. Most employers here wouldn't hire someone with those visible security risks.

They're saying on Nancy Grace that the house near where the body was found was owned by a Gonzelas family. They haven't tied any relationship to Zaneida though. I wonder if they moved out when their last name was mentioned also.

For Zaneida to be worried about her name, she hasn't been worried about showing what she looks like. I wonder how much income she's actually lost that she thinks she deserves some big settlement. Many people have lost their jobs and homes this year.

reply to post by aleon1018


Her Daughter is DEAD,she's sitting in jail awaiting trial for the murder of her own daughter,and you are concerned that she may be gaining too much weight?

Casey shouldn't have much of an appetite in my opinion.But then again,people like her don't even think they did anything wrong.She's probably chomping on those snacks and blaming her daughter for her next cavity AND her weight gain.

Why are you so concerned anyway-are you one of the people sending her money wanting to be pen pals-and getting pi$$ed because she's spending your cash on cheetos and coke?

I think that you are dead on the money. I also wondered the purpose of Casey borrowing the shovel and now that you have brought up the facts about the pavers, it just makes since. The fact that Casey herself would have the death smell on her while she was in backyard digging up pavers also explains as to why the police dogs made a hit in the backyard. Casey may have also put her dad's gas cans in her trunk hoping that maybe the gas smell would make the death smell less noticeable. This case gets stranger and stranger. Anyway just wanted to let you know that your post has given me a lot to think about.

Originally posted by aleon1018
They're saying on Nancy Grace that the house near where the body was found was owned by a Gonzelas family. They haven't tied any relationship to Zaneida though. I wonder if they moved out when their last name was mentioned also.

For Zaneida to be worried about her name, she hasn't been worried about showing what she looks like. I wonder how much income she's actually lost that she thinks she deserves some big settlement. Many people have lost their jobs and homes this year.

you're a sick person in my eyes.

the two houses next to the place Caylee's body was found has Gonzalez as a last name on one and Zenaida has a first name on the other.

I wonder how much income you've lost to the MKULTRA and why you think anyone should give a care why you are obsessed with your paranoia?

Ok back to the topic at hand.....Did anyone see the meter-reader's interview this morning on GMA? One thing caught me when i heard it. When asked how he came to search or suspect that location, he answered that since the little girl's disappearance he had gotten wrapped up in the case and knowing the area was in his route he claims he spotted this area as a 'logical' place one would dump a body to avoid detection because of the swamp smell masking decomp. Something just doesn't sit right with me about him.

Originally posted by aleon1018
Thanks for your "Nancy Grace BS" point of view.

I haven't any doubt this would never come up in court even if it was actually true. Poor Cayce doesn't stand a chance with people like you in the jury. The check is in the mail.

She looks like she's gaining too much weight. By the time she's convicted, we won't recognize her anymore.

Is your name Cindy, George or Lee? Maybe it's Jose? Get lost. I'm not part of a jury so I have every right in this country to call it like I see it. Including calling you somewhere between a freak and a schill. I'm starting to suspect you're a defense schill.

Originally posted by djvexd
Ok back to the topic at hand.....Did anyone see the meter-reader's interview this morning on GMA? One thing caught me when i heard it. When asked how he came to search or suspect that location, he answered that since the little girl's disappearance he had gotten wrapped up in the case and knowing the area was in his route he claims he spotted this area as a 'logical' place one would dump a body to avoid detection because of the swamp smell masking decomp. Something just doesn't sit right with me about him.

Well, I have to say that If I lived in that area and/or worked in that area, and had serious interest in the case, I would be keeping my eyeballs pealed at all times....and anything that seemed suspicious I would call it in.

His calls were being ignored in a round about way. So he kept pushing the issue based on whatever - his gut? Something he saw? It does sound fishy, but how many times have you (in general) had a strong gut feeling about something and wouldnt let up until you were satisfied. Maybe this is how he was. Though I dont really know. Just an assumption based on how I am.

****

Val, I think your points and questions are valid and well thought out. I dont have much to add, because I still am pondering it all (the case) myself. I too have been following it closely up until about a week or 2 ago.

Thanks for keeping this issue on the table. I think there is so much we have yet to find out.

reply to post by Valhall

Great thread thanks. I too have been watching this case since the beginning. I haven't heard any recent news concerning the pavers but I feel something was found at or around the remains that led back to the Anthony house. I know investigators made a bee line back to the house and gathered a lot of items.

Imo LE has more evidence than they are releasing to the public. I wonder about fingerprints, hair and fibers on the duct tape. Either way the chloroform smell and traces of human decomposition found in the car point to Casey as she was the last person to have it. One hair in the trunk was shown to be from an Anthony family member and that sample clearly displayed characteristics of a decomposing body. Now common sense tells you something is suspect if a hair from a dead Anthony is found in the trunk of a car that reeks of death and chloroform and all Anthony's have been found to be alive except for one. Not to mention the fact that the mother didn't bother to alert anyone for a whole month. If anything it has been Casey's conduct that will be far more damaging to her case than any public perceptions or bias.

Now maybe if the car was found to be clean and Casey had reported her daughter missing promptly and if it wasn't for all the girls gone wild party photos taken at the same time her daughter went missing.......then I would feel Casey and family are victims right along with Caylee. No this mother was old enough and from what seems to be a fairly well educated family. She knew better there is something more going on here.

I think you have done well in explaining the shovel. Do you remember early on a man had said he saw a woman who looked like Casey in a similar car on the side of the road struggling with what appeared to be a heavy garbage bag? I haven't heard anything more about this tip maybe it was at another location.

The most recent story I have heard about the PI is that he was following a tip from a psychic. That's his story and he's sticking to it. I don't know if we will ever know the truth. I have heard the computer searches found on the home PC point to George, Casey or Lee, Cindy was at work during those times. Who knows a dark family secret or just an out of control daughter. I just know it stinks. Casey has become a lying ruthless people user for some reason. Either she has mental problems or her childhood was warped.

I do not feel sorry for this woman. At best she was neglectful and cared only about her partying and herself. At worst she is a baby killer. Casey did something with that baby on that first night she fought with her mother. She left angry with none of Caylee's things what angry woman doesn't pack her bags first? She was seen late that night in a parking lot talking on the phone and Caylee was not in sight. Casey showed up later at her boyfriends with no Caylee she was "at the sitters."

Cindy questioned the fact that Casey didn't take any of Caylee's things. I think Casey said Zaneida had everything she needed. Come on what kid doesn't have a favorite toy or blanket that would never be left behind. I think she intended to kill the child right after the fight to get back at her mother. Not taking clothes and necessities shows premeditation imo. From what I understand Casey and Caylee had been living full time at George and Cindy's home prior to that fight. So most of their belongings would have been in the Anthony home.

Your angle on the OC sheriffs departments involvement with Casey is one I hadn't given much consideration to. It seems they stopped talking about that cop early on. I know the judge had to put a stop to all the kissy face and hugging with her attorney in court.

reply to post by Valhall

Sorry to post again so soon but I just came back to the thread and saw your post. Wow what a bombshell I had not heard about the neighboring houses with the names Zenaida on one and Gonzalez on the other. That's just too strange.

I know I kinda had my doubts about this meter reader too but with the smell in the car, the chloroform searches and chloroform smell found in the car and the fact Casey didn't report it for a month eliminates him imo.

He would've had to first hidden Caylee's body in Casey's trunk leaving her there for sometime then at a later time risk coming back to retrieve the body disposing of it without being seen. Now maybe a meter reader could do this but I don't think he could get on the home computer or get Casey to not report her daughter missing and make up a story about some Zenaida woman. This just keeps getting crazier.

I have thought from the very beginning of this case that this is CLEARLY a case of a mother involved in a Luciferian cult type situation.

The child was clearly offered as a sacrifice to her secret groups of friends who are most likely Satanic dark workers/witches/wizards.

Illuminati family perhaps.

reply to post by aleon1018

Zenaida Gonzalez came out because people made death threats against her after the local tv stations gave out her location which led to her being wrongfully fired and evicted. No one would hire her after that, understandable because those threats are a very serious and expensive security risk. Being a poor, blue collar hispanic woman Gonzalez also doesn't have people bailing her out to exploit her infamy like Casey does.
More than anything people just can't admit that an attractive white girl would murder her kid, it's very easy to blame an hispanic woman because child abuse is very common in that community here. Ask any social worker or pre-trial intervention worker in our area and they will back that up. Emotions are VERY high in Florida over this case and it definitely could get ugly. God only knows how much it will cost for courtroom security, there are a lot of wanna-be Rambos in these parts and the media is not helping as always, we have constant breaks in broadcasts to share the latest tidbits which usually turn out to be .....false.
Zanny also is a street name for recreational Xanax use and I can assure you Casey knew exactly what she was doing by throwing in a hispanic surname. Racial tensions in Orange County were bad enough before but now she is seen as another Susan Smith, she has really set the race relations back a few hours. The fact that her father is an ex-LEO makes it worse since he of all people would know how inflammatory that was. I hope she takes them for everything they've got, that whole bunch of losers really needs to spend time in the pokey! Better yet, lock her and Mommy up in the same cell, something tells me they are no strangers to a good catfight.

Originally posted by Morningglory
reply to post by Valhall

 

Do you remember early on a man had said he saw a woman who looked like Casey in a similar car on the side of the road struggling with what appeared to be a heavy garbage bag? I haven't heard anything more about this tip maybe it was at another location.

I heard about this about a month ago on a news show (I'm not sure of the rules here-I read them quite awhile ago but have forgotten so I won't mention the name of the show),and there was a panel on the show that day who seemed pretty believeable.It was mentioned that this was not Caylee wearing the hat,but a friend of hers who had borrowed her hat that day.

Please don't shoot the messenger

Originally posted by RobinB022

Originally posted by Morningglory
reply to post by Valhall

 

Do you remember early on a man had said he saw a woman who looked like Casey in a similar car on the side of the road struggling with what appeared to be a heavy garbage bag? I haven't heard anything more about this tip maybe it was at another location.

I heard about this about a month ago on a news show (I'm not sure of the rules here-I read them quite awhile ago but have forgotten so I won't mention the name of the show),and there was a panel on the show that day who seemed pretty believeable.It was mentioned that this was not Caylee wearing the hat,but a friend of hers who had borrowed her hat that day.

Please don't shoot the messenger

I'm not shooting the messenger. It's a lot different to talk about the circumstances surrounding the situation than to inject something that's pulled from no where. And MKULTRA is pulled from no one. Saying Zenaida Gonzalez has done something wrong because she doesn't have her face in a mike all the time and isn't talking about her personal income to the public, is out of no where. And quite honestly sounds like something the dufus defense would come up with. or the Anthonys for that matter.

I am curious to learn more on the discussion you saw concerning "it not being Caylee". Could you be more specific on which "it" wasn't Caylee? See, there was an alleged sighting of Caylee early on at a mall and one at an airport, were they talking about the sightings after she was reported missing or were they talking about the body that was found. I have not heard of any hat being found with the body. In fact, the LE has not disclosed that they actually found ANY clothes with the body (they haven't said they didn't either). Some people speculate the clothes may be else where, for a couple of reasons:

1. When KC was out on bond the first time (bailed out by Leonard Padilla) a female bounty hunter stayed in the Anthony house with her. At one point, in discussing the search for Caylee, KC stated to the bonds-lady - "they haven't even found her clothes yet". Which would indicate that the clothes are not with the child.

2. The PI looked in two locations and appears to be guided in the search by whomever he is talking to. If in fact he is being guided by some one who had knowledge that the body was where he was at in the beginning of the video, then it seems plausible that he was also guided by that person to go to the house in the latter part of the video and search. Kathy Belich of WFTV states "the house was far enough away from where the body was located that you would have to drive there"...so it wasn't that the PI was just wandering around and went over into this yard, he drove there. Since we know the body wasn't there, but in the first location, was he looking for the clothes at the house.

Some have speculated that the abandoned house he is searching around is one shown in a video taken in like 2005 that shows Casey at a house during a party, where a band is playing in the backyard.

With the statement Casey is reported to have made to the bond-lady, it appears she may have thrown Caylee's clothing away in a separation location.

[edit on 1-14-2009 by Valhall]

i enjoyed your thread about your house and read the whole thing from 2003 till just yesterday.

but i don't think you should be dissecting caylee anthony's case on these boards before its even gotten to trial.

Originally posted by Morningglory
reply to post by Valhall

 

Sorry to post again so soon but I just came back to the thread and saw your post. Wow what a bombshell I had not heard about the neighboring houses with the names Zenaida on one and Gonzalez on the other. That's just too strange.

Yeah, the body was located almost exactly midway between two houses bordering the overgrown area...one house owned by a person with the last name Gonzalez the other home owned by woman with the first name Zenaida. Casey claims her imaginary Zanny the Nanny's name is Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzelez. I wonder if the clothes are buried by a house owned by a Fernandez?

I do not think this is a coincidence. I personally believe Casey made up the name as a type of sick memorial for where she threw her baby away.

See, over and over, Casey has made the statement that she has told LE what they need to know but they "have misconstrued" her words. She's said that multiple times in phone calls that have been released, and in visitations at the jail that were recorded and released.

Look at what she says to her dad when he asks her why she doesn't cooperate with the sheriff's department:

"The few times that I have, dad, you've seen what's blown up in my face. They've misconstrued things that I said to them, resources that I gave them they haven't used. So in all honesty, as much as I'd like to, at the moment, if I'm going to, it won't be an in-person conversation, it won't be an over-the-phone conversation, it will be in writing, so there's no way of twisting my words or saying I didn't give them information."

I think the sick cow was playing a game with the LE. I think she wanted the body to be found so that she could claim that the evil imaginary Zanny the Nanny had ultimately killed her daughter. The problem is she's not as smart as she has deluded herself into believing and her house of cards fell in long before the body was found.

What one has to keep in mind when looking at this case is that we're dealing with such a warped mind that she firmly believed she could step into an investigation of her missing (actually dead) daughter and continue her life of lives as she had for 2 years. For two years she had convinced everyone who knew her that she was leaving for work every day of the work week. No one knows where she was going for those 8-10-12 hours per day that she would pretend to leave for work. No one knows where little Caylee was every day that Casey pretended to go to work but went ??? This is a 2 year pretense, day in and day out.

So when she finally got caught on her baby being missing she just went on with that lie with no hesitation. She took the LE to locations where Zenaida is supposed to have lived - of course, no Zenaida ever lived at any of the locations. And she claimed she worked at Universal. She went so far as to walk them all the way into a building before she just nonchalantly said - okay, I don't really work here. As if finally confessing after 36 hours of lies was no big deal. Not even a "my bad, I lied", but a "I don't work here"...kind of like "let's just all forget that part and let me move on to the next part of the fantasy".

When you have a mind like that you have probably built the lie all the way into the far future and apparently you convince yourself you can pull the whole pre-imagined scenario off. Every one is going to believe everything you say...because you've lived that way for at least 2 years.

You can't look at throwing your dead baby to the curb just 1/4 mile from your house as intelligent. By no means can anything that Casey has done be viewed as intelligent. She probably had concocted some fantastical lie (which we'll probably hear in her trial from her defense team) that Zenaida murdered the baby and then left it behind the houses as a "calling card" of some sort. Just remember, Casey is in isolation 24/7 except when she sees her lawyer. She now has ample time to really spin a yarn!

[edit on 1-14-2009 by Valhall]

Originally posted by ll__raine__ll
i enjoyed your thread about your house and read the whole thing from 2003 till just yesterday.

but i don't think you should be dissecting caylee anthony's case on these boards before its even gotten to trial.

Don't confuse the requirement that the legal system must treat Casey as innocent until proven guilty as a prohibition against me, a member of the general populace unattached to the legal proceedings, being able to formulate an opinion of her guilt or innocence based on discovery released to the public. In other words, based on the evidence released through the Sunshine Law, I think the cow killed her baby.

It goes without saying that the verdict has not been rendered, so take my opinion for what it is worth.

If we were going to not talk about any entity (from person to government agency) unless they had been convicted in a court of law, this board would be reduced to looking at pictures and videos of UFOs and ghosts...because most of the board is populated with allegations against people and groups who have not been convicted in a court of law.

A review of the evidence against Casey Anthony:

1. Her baby went missing on or immediately after the 16th of June and she told no one, but instead went partying and having a high old time.
2. She had a dead body in the trunk of her car. A dead body that has mitochondrial DNA that matches herself and her daughter. A dead body that lost hair post mortem. Since Casey is still alive, that leaves us with a hair that was lost post mortem from Caylee.
3. She started researching missing kids in March of 2008. She also googled the 100th episode of One Tree Hill which was about a baby who was kidnapped by the nanny. She also googled how to make chloroform.
4. The trunk of her car had abnormal levels of chloroform - the same trunk that had a dead body that lost a hair post mortem that belongs to her missing, and now confirmed dead, daughter.
5. Her car still stinks like a dead body - as reported by LE.
6. She claimed her nanny, who had been her nanny for 2 years, kidnapped her daughter. But she hasn't had a job in 2 years and the only money she's had in that 2 years has been what her mommy and daddy gave her or what she stole from her parents, her friends, and her grandparents. So not only did she not have a reason for a nanny, she didn't have the income to pay a nanny.
7. She said she left Caylee with Zenaida the nanny at the bottom of the steps going to Zanny's apartment - an apartment at Sawgrass apartments that hasn't had anyone living in it this year (unless they have moved in since the case broke).
8. But then she said she met Zenaida at Jay Blanchard Park and that Zenaida and her evil sister Samantha pushed her to the ground, grabbed Caylee, shoved a "script" in Casey's hands and told her to stick to the script for the next 30 days. Which is real freaky that Zanny and Sammy knew that it would be almost exactly 30 days before Casey's ruse would be busted to the public and she'd be in defense mode. Maybe they are part of a voodoo cult that can see in the future or something.
9. She said she met Zenaida through Jeff Hopkins whom she works with at Universal who has a son named Zack that Zenaida also babysits. Problem is Casey doesn't work for Universal, Jeff Hopkins doesn't work for Universal, Jeff Hopkins doesn't have a son, and therefore - he doesn't have a nanny named Zenaida.
10. She says she has used Zenaida for 2 years as a nanny and known her for - 4, 5 and 6 years depending on which person you are and which story she told you.
11. For the 30 days her daughters was missing (reads dead) and unreported, and her mother was trying to see Caylee, and the same period of time she CLAIMS she was frantically searching for her daughter in between playing beer pong, screwing anything that would walk (or at least attempting to), and hiking her hiney in hot body contests (all of which she claims was part of the search for Caylee - because when I'm a kidnapping nanny I go to the clubs and hang out with a 2 year old), she was telling her mother that she was in: Jacksonville, Tampa, that Zanny had been in a wreck and she was nursing her back to health in a Tampa hospital, that she was vacationing in Jacksonville, working in Jacksonville, working in Tampa - and her cell phone records confirm she never left Orlando. And she was telling her friends that her daughter was with her mother, with the nanny, at Universal, at Disney, at Sea World and at the beach.
12. When her trunk started stinking from her rotting daughter's body in the trunk (see enumerated evidence of that above), she told her friends her dad had borrowed her car and hit a squirrel and it was plastered to the frame of her car and was stinking it up. Her dad hadn't had the opportunity to borrow her car bein's she was in Tampa, Jacksonville, etc....NOT.
13. After the date Caylee was last seen alive, Casey broke into and stole gas cans from her parents and when her dad called her on it she refused to let him into the before mentioned and greatly detailed trunk but did an end-run around him and angrily retrieved the stolen gas cans herself, preventing him from access to the "trunk o' death".
14. On the 27th of June she texted her friend Amy and said "I got rid of the squirrel today". She also abandoned her car on that day and told her BF it was broken and her dad was going to get it to a shop to be fixed. It wasn't broken (out of gas, but not broken) and she didn't ask her dad to come get it. The stinky car got towed 3 days later.

What part of that am I supposed to ignore for the time being?



[edit on 1-14-2009 by Valhall]

The person seen wearing the hat loading a heavy garbage bag into a similar car was a woman who looked like Casey wearing a ball cap. That's the only hat I have heard mentioned. I saw in some news footage Casey going into court or her lawyers office wearing a ball cap. From this report the baby was not seen at that time just the woman in the hat.

Secretagent Woooman mentioned Susan Smith. She came to mind immediately when Casey alleged a hispanic woman had stolen her child. I don't doubt Secretagent Woooman's comments concerning child abuse numbers among the hispanic community in Orlando what I do feel needs a mention is maybe the hispanics are abusing their children but seems like the sleezy white trash accounts for a portion of murdered children in Florida.

Secretagent Wooman does bring up a good point as to prevailing attitudes of the community towards hispanic people. If this is true then why would a white girl from suburbia make up a story that she sought out and employed a hispanic woman? Was this lie just another way to stab her mother in the back? Adding insult to injury? Or what a great cover hispanic woman=child abuse. If attitudes are such as they are why would Casey pretend to hire a hispanic nanny and not just say Caylee was stolen by a hispanic stranger? Wouldn't that have been just as effective and easier with less lies to keep track of? Maybe due to the fact that Susan Smith played that card without much success and too much publicity. I think her reasons were possibly twofold get mom angry over her choice of nannies and have a great excuse if anything happened to Caylee.

I wonder if Caylee was being abused prior to this fight with mom. There were times Casey had to wait for Cindy to come home from work before Casey could go out and party. I know she was using her old boyfriends parents for babysitters. I wonder when no one was available if Casey was giving Caylee drugs/chloroform to knock her out while she partied. Maybe this was something she had been doing for awhile and felt comfortable doing it. Maybe drugs missing from her nurse mother's medicine cabinet was drawing attention Casey possibly felt she needed to mix up her own home brew for Caylee thus the computer searches. Investigators did remove pool chemicals. In the last video of Caylee with her great grandpa I noticed dark circles under her eyes that were not in previous pictures.

No Casey is not as good a liar as she thinks she is. The fact that she has heard her dad talk about cases over the years she may think she knows more than the average person about LE. Inflated ego is a big problem with Casey.

When Valhall says Casey has been living a two year pretense I suggest she has been living in her own little self-serving world her life long. This level of self-denial is an ingrained character flaw, mutation, mental deficit, mental impairment whatever you want to call it.

Imo this is how it all started...Wild teenage Casey was princess of home and hearth finding herself pregnant did not go along with her Britney Spears-lifestyle-plans so she was simply going to abort/adopt out Caylee and go on with her self-serving life no big deal. Well mom took a strong stand for probably the first time in Casey's life intervening and demanding Casey be responsible for her actions this time and do the right thing forcing her to keep Caylee. This didn't sit well with Casey imo.

I grew up with a brother very similar to Casey and mom was an enabler his whole life. Never having to take responsibility for his actions as a child led to disaster his whole life. There are times we must take action and be a responsible human. When this is not taught as a young child there are no feelings of remorse or guilt when others are hurt due to irresponsible behavior. These people are dangerous to be around.