How would ATS solve the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict? *w/ restrictions*

I checked and didn't see that this thread has been created before. I am certainly growing tired of all of the threads on Israel and Palestine that have become so polarized in debate that no progress will EVER be made if a new course is not found.

ATS spends way too much time arguing about the conflict and little time proposing ideas to resolve the 2000 + year conflict. ATS enjoys the reputation of a progressive thinking conspiracy board, so I think it is time for a fair conclusion to be found unanimously.

What? You think I'm crazy? Well, that's where the *restrictions* come into play. There are going to be Blackout topics that can not be implemented into the conversation, nor can it come up in the solution. All the participants have to do is follow this simple instruction, and perhaps we may find ourselves in a neutral point where we may discuss objectively. Almost like we are Aliens and we have been commissioned to solve this feeble Earthly problem.

Or you can look at it like your Matt Damon in Goodwill Hunting and you see this half solved equation on a chalkboard.

Blackout Topics

1). Any reference to historic persecution. Both Jews and Palestinians have been discriminated against and forced from foreign lands.
2). Do not bring up who started it or who terrorizes more. No one has been fed the entire truth to anything, so assume you have a partial truth and move on.
3). Do not bring up who is more radical and extreme. Some have smart bombs that kill entire families in retribution to an attack, while others use suicidal jackets to kill families out of retribution.
4). Religion will not trump the debate on a solution, so it must be omitted as a talking point. Each culture's GOD follows them to war, remember. There is only one GOD. Moving on.
5). No need to support any negative sentiment with quotes or links, it is not allowed.

As an outside Mediator you will take notice how both sides argue presently.

Pro-Israelis will see nothing other than:

1). Israel has the nation now, and the past has nothing to do with the present.
2). They will argue that their past has been full of persecution, even though they don't want anyone else bringing up their own persecution.
3). HAMAS won't stop killing Israeli while refusing to ask or care as to why they continue to attack.
4). 1 million Palestinians aren't worth a fingernail of a jew, as quoted by past PM.
5). HAMAS started it, even though they enabled HAMAS to operate in the Arafat era.
6). Jews are more intellectually viable than arabs.
7). Whatever the mainstream media says about the conflict must be true.
8). Opportunism is our right.
9). MASSAD's logline is "War by Deception."
10). We are the chosen people.

Pro-Palestinians see nothing other than:

1). Controlled and structured genocide.
2). Hypocrisy in motion
3). Heartless opportunism
4). An ugly effect to a sinister cause.
5). Worldwide rhetoric and propaganda
6). War by Deception
7). Chosen people don't get blank check.

If you were seriously able to get in the mindset of an other-world entity who was commissioned to settle this crisis, I believe solutions may manifest seemingly inadvertently.

Let's give it a try...

I will post my suggestions soon. I must try to first get into the alien mindset

AAC

This thread might not fly since the people are too dumb to do any research, so they just repeat what CNN says.

Isreal is our ally, and they will prevail.

The only real solution is the extermination of any and all terrorists.

I would love to go through all those points and provide an answer to each one.

The world has already spent decades trying to bring those two peoples together, and both sides have failed to uphold their agreements, or refused to bend a little for the other.

There is no way to solve a 2000+ year old fight but to let the fighters solve it for themselves....if they ever will.

How about calling the country Israel-Palestine.

*incentive*

The majority of the countries in world antes a appropriate portion of capital and is dispersed as peace-aide to the duel nation. This aide is restricted to peace in the region and they are on the same team team to preserve it. 10 billion dollars could be worth annual stability in the region.



AAC

Originally posted by RFBurns
r the other.

There is no way to solve a 2000+ year old fight but to let the fighters solve it for themselves....if they ever will.

The fight is not presently fair, which creates adverse reactions in the surrounding areas. The stubborn fighting has prevented progress.

AAC

Personally? Nobody can live there. I would make it a preservation of desert land (no oil drilling) and all the people who reside their now can go live in countries that they are allied with. Israelis can't have it and Palestinians can't have it. Nobody can have it. Maybe the UN can, they can own the preservation. Only people allowed to live there will be park rangers.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I like this idea actually. It should remain a religious tourist attraction. All religious temples, shrines and mosques can stay. And we create a huge transportation system that transports the travelers.

Basically, no residential living in the Promise Land.

AAC

Posted in similar thread here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But will transfer mine here cause this is the solution I believe in.

I think it should be given to Jordan or Egypt as a temporary territory, kinda like Guam and Puerto Rico, in addition to the land Israel had agreed to give up in previous talks. Once Jordan or Egypt whip the place back in shape, they could hand it over to the Palestinians to run themselves. Israel has had a good relationship with Jordan and Egypt and would be able to work with them and the Palestinians over any disputes that may arise.

Well, Here is my 2cents

OK, Here ya go.

#1 They cannot live in peace. Why, because the Palestinians will accept nothing short of the Israelis completely out of Israel.

#2 The Israelis aren't leaving.... OK, that's the facts


There is no land for Peace and no compromise period.

Question: OK... next... Is it possible to relocate the Palestinians to another country? Hell, even build em one?

Answer: As stated in #1 & #2.... No.


Errr... what next.... try to kind of co-exist with rockets raining down from one side and overwhelming retaliatory firepower on the other..... well, that's what we have... end of hostility, build up of weapons, shoot some rockets, martyr a few children as suicide bombers.. recruit more children for suicide bombers. Israel responds with military firepower.... Rinse and Repeat.


So, until side A decides to recognize side B and decide to not kill them and actually renounce violence and take out the terrorist (which I doubt). And or Side A or Side B leaves (which I doubt) or Side B decides to do nothing when attacked (which I doubt).... Well there is not much of a solution to be had is there.

reply to post by jam321


Now that's a thought... Have Jordan or Egypt run the place and clean out the vermin..... not a bad idea, that might have merit.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


Exactly. Everyone can go worship there. Nobody "owns" the land. People who want to worship there everyday can commute from somewhere else. This way the buildings can be preserved for future generations.

People who say that they NEED to live there to worship at such and such everyday would have a poor argument, since many religious people reside in different countries and won't go to hell or be poor *insert religious title here* if they don't worship at that exact place.

I mean, I just want to preserve the desert because I'm an ecologist-type. But in reality, nobody owns that land right now. We all did at one point or another.

I mean, Israel is a little like that now... Muslims and Christians and Jews are all allowed to go worship at those places in Jerusalem. If we expanded that land to include Gaza, and everybody could live there, and made Israel part of the UN instead of it's own state, then Hamas could live there (and bomb whatever they want...) and Israelis can live there and I could live there but only in certain parts of the territory, if they cannot live elsewhere or if they NEED to worship at the same place. The rest of the territory would be preserve.

how would i deal with the current situation in the middle east ?

round up every person in the country and put them on a boat(s).
salt the earth 1km thick.
let who ever wants the country to dig it out. citizanship to other countries for people who dont.

most i feel would walk away.

its not a perfect solution i know and probably a bit over the top but i dont see them stopping any time soon.

reply to post by jam321


Isn't Egypt one of those countries that does not get along with Israel? Oh, I guess they reached a peace agreement. Somehow I think they would tend to side against the Israelis, though.

Maybe the UN should just take that land and moderate it themselves. People who live there now can keep living there. No war.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation

Actually, as in most disputes, the solution is relatively easy. The problem is that it requires a good impartial facilitator, and the agreement of both sides to follow the facilitator's instructions.
Fisher and Ury popularized the technique in their very successful book, "Getting to Yes". The premise of their technique is very simple- you want a win-win solution, and the way to get there is to negotiate about INTERESTS, NOT POSITIONS.

Positions confilct, but interests can be merged to a common interest. I used this book in classes that I taught, prior to retiring.

One of the examples they used in the book, present a situation, where two people were sitting next to each other in a library. The first person got up, went to the window of the room that they were in, and opened the window, then sat back down. Immediately, the second person got up, went to the same window, and shut the window, then sat down. This continued for awhile, with the two people opening, then closing the window. Finally, the librarian came over and asked them what they were doing. The first person said he was opening the window, because he wanted fresh air. The second person said he was closing the window, because he didn't want a draft.
The librarian then proceeded to go to the adjoining room, and open a window, thus allowing fresh air in, while not causing a draft in the first room.
Lesson- "Open the Window" and "Close the Window" are the CONFLICTING positions, one is possible, while the other is not, at the same time. However, the solution involved finding a solution that satisfied both INTERESTS, namely, "Getting Fresh Air" and "Avoiding a Draft", which were not conflicting in the final solution.

Someone needs to moderate with the parties to find a solution to satisfy common interests, NOT positions.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Jordan and Egypt, as Arabs, do have a dislike for Israel. However, they have chosen to live in peace alongside its neighbor rather than waging war. Maybe they could teach the Palestinians the same. At the same time they could show the Palestinians how to prosper their land and help them build a modern infrastructure while at the same working with the Palestinians and Israel to settle other disputes they have against each other.

Well I'll give it a shot.
242 has to be the basis of much of it. Land for Peace.

1. 2 States, Israel and Palestine (Gaza and West Bank).
2. Most of the 1967 border intact. Some minor adjustments for security reasons. Jerusalem would be the exception.
3. Jerusalem is Capital of Israel. East Jerusalem is Capital of Palestine.
4. Religious access to all Holy sites.
5. No right of return to Israel proper, but compensation for those able to prove their case.
6. Water rights insured on both sides.
7. Removal of all settlements on West Bank not to include Jerusalem.
8. Full diplomatic recognition by both parties and Arab League.
9. Acknowledgment of both sides right to exist and right to live peacefully in their designated borders free from threat of attack.
10. Economic plan to develop Palestine. A mini Marshall plan so to speak. Probably the best 10-25 Billion you could spend.
11. Non aggression pact / Peace treaty signed by both sides.


Thats it for now, that will be hard enough to get both sides to stomach.

Golan Heights is a separate matter.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Egypt though historically an enemy of Israel is a US Ally though I don't think they would even want to get involved as it would end up Egypt vs the terrorists (backed by Iran).

As for the UN... LOL, that corrupt organization can do nothing but steal money and attempt to gain power through treaty so they can steal more money. That is useless unless there is some kind of "funds" they get to control and steal. Plus nothing the UN gets involved with works mainly due to corruption.

As for "moving everyone out"... Well, sure.. that means the world kills off both the Israelis and the Palestinians because neither will ever leave even under threat of death.... So if that's the plan, then the real genocide begins!


Pavil: novel idea except #11 ... only a matter of time before suicide bombers and rockets fly. #11 will only work if the Palestinians actually want peace and kill off the terrorist elements within their community which is not probable.


Best Idea in my OPINION would be some kind of "Arab Assistance" government that could provide police / military to the new "Palestine" territory that had the will and truly wanted to eradicate the terrorist groups and put them out of business permanently, but again that is as improbable as the Mexicans taking on the drug cartels in Mexico as the "bad guys" have the advantage and would soon corrupt the government, police & military and then were back to the same ole same ole.




[edit on 10-1-2009 by infolurker]

Originally posted by infolurker
Well, Here is my 2cents

OK, Here ya go.

#1 They cannot live in peace. Why, because the Palestinians will accept nothing short of the Israelis completely out of Israel.

#2 The Israelis aren't leaving.... OK, that's the facts

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

You typed a lot and didn't say anything relevant to the operatives set forth.

AAC

Its quite simple, really..... well, on paper....

Assuming a neutral, TRUSTWORTHY governing body had a period of time of say a few years to work with, and unlimited, unquestioned and unchallenged power, maybe the following steps could help:

1 - Form a single state

Meld Gaza and the West Bank into what the world now calls Israel.

2 - Dismantle Mossad

As the title suggests, dismantle this highly dangerous, provocative, psychopathic organisation. It is an essential step to securing peace.

3 - Work towards ending Zionism

Confiscate all funding from people like AIPAC, ban politicians/parties who run on a Zionist platform, ban its doctrine from schools, seperate it from State in every conceivable manner.

4 - Deport all 'settlers'

They stole the land, it's that simple. Give it back, and see if they can try BUYING the land they wish to settle on from the people who owned it. If they can't? Oh well, back to AMERICA and EUROPE with them then. Settlers also run amuk armed like commandos, and routinely distrub the peace by attacking Palestinians. Deporting them, or at the very least handing out major jail terms, would help.

5 - Dismantle the ghettos, resettle the refugees

Goes hand in hand with kicking out the settlers. The people who have been herded into camps and slums are to be sent back to their land.

6 - Release wrongfully detained Palestinian civillians

I don't think I need to expand much on what the title so obviously says.

7 - Try IDF and Knesset members for War Crimes

Simple. You want to help placate the newly remerged Palestinian population, you need to make sure nobody gets away with "I was just following orders". Think Nuremberg.

8 - Dismantle groups like HAMAS, Fatah, Islamic Jihad etc.

Militias running the streets harbouring old grievances will not be tolerated, so they must disband. If anyone wants to run round with an RPG, they can either join the Army or they can ship out to Afghanistan. HAMAS charity and civil service groups to be taken over by the state.

9 - Education

Ban faith based schools. General religious education to be introduced to build bridges between communities. History to be mandatory for every student. Religious organisations are not allowed to donate to schools, religious leaders are not allowed to help govern schools.

10 - Equal distribution of resources among communities

Doesn't matter if they're Jewish, Muslim, Christian, or whatever, they should all recieve equal in terms of utilities and the like.

11 - Rebuild Parliament

All communities should have a voice. A voice all communities wishing to take part in this new nation have to acknowledge and work with to solve their differences.

12 - Withdraw FULLY from Lebanon

Best way to get Hezbollah out of their hair is to not steal their.... wait, this whole land stealing thing seems vaguely familiar...

13 - Declare Jerusalem an International City.

This way, no one group of fans dedicated to any one particular invisible friend can lay claim to this City.

Thats all I can think of for now. I am sure many will be having kittens at some of the suggestions, but its a case of give a little, gain a lot.

It seems to most that the Zionist movement is over. Are you using the term in a different way?