Can God create an object so heavy that even He cannot lift it?

This is a question I often get asked. I am looking for opinions of both the religious and non-religious communities.

can god create a section for this question and create entities that actually post in that section?

lol, im just kiddin buddy
but ur kinda way off in terms of putting this in the right place

but what you are asking is like can god create triangular circles
it doesn't make sense

[edit on 6-1-2009 by ModernAcademia]

reply to post by ps1klon3


Yes and no

God is the rock?

Wasn't this the subject of another thread a while ago?

Being an atheist, I dont believe in god, so I dont believe that he would create and object that he couldnt lift because if he doesnt exist, how can he create that object?

reply to post by Kaifan


I searched, but couldnt turn up anything.

"Can God create an object so heavy that not even he can lift it?"

No offense but that is a really stupid question. Experience tells me that people who ask such stupid questions are usually trying to bait religious people into a debate.

There are two possible answers to the question. Yes he can or No he can't.

Either way, the point of the question is to get an answer which states that either God cannot create the object, or God cannot lift the object. Either way, it is meant to be understood as something that God cannot do...a concept which violates the doctrines of the religious.

At this point the person asking the question, usually someone who has a problem with "organised religion", begins the usual anti-religious rhetoric which usually consists of something like... "HA!!! I knew it was all just a bunch crap that someone made up so they could control everything!!!" ...which usually ends up being a debate between the religious and the non-religious, both sides shouting insults at each other, and both sides failing to convert their opponents to their point of view. Nine times out of ten, it usually ends up being more trouble than its worth.

"Can God create an object so heavy that not even he can lift it?"

Before I can answer your question I must first ask you one of my own.

Why would God attempt to do such a pointless task?

[edit on 1/6/2009 by Lightmare]

[edit on 1/6/2009 by Lightmare]

Originally posted by Lightmare
"Can God create an object so heavy that not even he can lift it?"

No offense but that is a really stupid question. Experience tells me that people who ask such stupid questions are usually trying to bait religious people into a debate.

There are two possible answers to the question. Yes he can or No he can't.

Either way, the point of the question is to get an answer which states that either God cannot create the object, or God cannot lift the object. Either way, it is meant to be understood as something that God cannot do...a concept which violates the doctrines of the religious.

At this point the person asking the question, usually someone who has a problem with "organised religion", begins the usual anti-religious rhetoric which usually consists of something like... "A HA!!! I knew it was all just a bunch crap that someone made up so they could control everything!!!" ...which usually ends up being a debate between the religious and the non-religious, both sides shouting insults at each other, and both sides failing to convert their opponents to their point of view. Nine times out of ten, it usually ends up being more trouble than its worth.

"Can God create an object so heavy that not even he can lift it?"

Before I can answer your question I must first ask you one of my own.

Why would God attempt to do such a pointless task?

[edit on 1/6/2009 by Lightmare]

Speaking from a religious stand point - nothing God does is pointless. It has a reason and a purpose. This is generally a question that I get from somebody who is non-religious and seem the think that "if he is all powerful, then can he?". I asked this question looking for a way to answer it with either a yes or a no with an explanation of why. Furthermore by stating "Experience tells me that people who ask such stupid questions are usually trying to bait religious people into a debate." You immediatly assumed that I was a non-religious person, which you cannot possibly know. Also, speaking from a religious standpoint, I was looking for a way to address this kind of question from someone who is unbiased, knowledgeable, and can back up any claims made as to yes He can or no He cant. If you cannot come to a yes or a no answer WITH proven evidence, then why reply as this post was meant for an answer. You have already shown that you cannot even do such a simple task as that. Oh, and by the way, I dont have a problem with organized religion.

If your intentions really are pure, then please accept my apology.

Seeing as how humankind cannot even agree on whether or not God exists, you are not likely to get any solid answers from anyone who can "back up their claims" with anything more than textual evidence from religious writings and numerous philosophical "what if" scenarios.

I would guess the answer to the question would be...No....and Yes.

If God is all powerful then he can manipulate all matter to accomplish his intent. Therefore, the only way he could ever create an object so heavy that not even he could lift it would be if he specifically intended to do so. Which again begs the question. Why would he attempt to do such a thing?

reply to post by Lightmare


Fundamentalists would probably say (and I think may have already said above) that the question is faulty because their god can create an infinitely large rock and also lift it. I would say the opposite. I think the rock conundrum shows that the concept of omnipotence is what is faulty. That is why I would disagree with Lightmare when he says that it would be a "pointless task" for a god to attempt. Would it not at least prove, Lightmare, that the concept of omnipotence is not as illogical, impossible and wildly contradictory as it seems?

Apology accepted. I agree that humankind cannot, and probably will never, agree on the existance of God. Now, as far as textual claims go, that is really a matter of how one looks at it. You read a history book of things that happened in the past and believe because it happened right? Well isnt the Bible a "history book" of what happened? Again, you say why would God attempt such a thing, well he isnt for a reason. The Scriptural evidence I have of why he cannot is God cannot contradict Himself.
God can't lie (e.g. Titus 1:2)
God can't change (e.g. Numbers 23:19)
I look at it this way, can an unstoppable force exist in the same space as an unmovable object? No, because they are contradictory and God cannot contradict himself. Thats my theory if anyone else has any other thoughts or can further prove or disprove this claim, I am willing to listen.

Originally posted by ps1klon3
I look at it this way, can an unstoppable force exist in the same space as an unmovable object? No, because they are contradictory and God cannot contradict himself. Thats my theory if anyone else has any other thoughts or can further prove or disprove this claim, I am willing to listen.

Well that sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I wish you luck in your quest.

Yes he could. Because it is all merely a choice.

When you go and play a card game, what keeps you from physically seeing the other persons cards? You are quite capable of doing that. But, you have made a choice to play by a certain rule, and so you do not look at the opponents hands. So you have agreed to the rules, so that the experience provided by the rules can be had.

And so, when god makes a rock he can not lift, then he is making and agreeing the rule that he can not life the rock. Of course, you can change your mind and choose not to play the game any longer, pack up your cards, put them in the box and go home. The power in both cases is merely a choice. Only when choice is not allowed does one lose power.



[edit on 6-1-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by ps1klon3
I look at it this way, can an unstoppable force exist in the same space as an unmovable object? No, because they are contradictory and God cannot contradict himself. Thats my theory if anyone else has any other thoughts or can further prove or disprove this claim, I am willing to listen.

Isn't the unstoppable force the unmovable object? IE: The same thing.

Might as well ask - can an ant eat it's own head?

reply to post by badmedia


Look at the definitions of each:
1: an unstoppable force is a force in which nothing can stop
2: an immovable object is an object in which nothing can move

Object and Force are 2 completly different things.

[edit] - To be more clear, an object is something that has mass or takes up space whereas Force is that which can cause an object WITH mass to accelerate (move).

[edit on 6-1-2009 by ps1klon3]

Originally posted by badmedia
Yes he could. Because it is all merely a choice.

When you go and play a card game, what keeps you from physically seeing the other persons cards? You are quite capable of doing that. But, you have made a choice to play by a certain rule, and so you do not look at the opponents hands. So you have agreed to the rules, so that the experience provided by the rules can be had.

And so, when god makes a rock he can not lift, then he is making and agreeing the rule that he can not life the rock. Of course, you can change your mind and choose not to play the game any longer, pack up your cards, put them in the box and go home. The power in both cases is merely a choice. Only when choice is not allowed does one lose power.



[edit on 6-1-2009 by badmedia]

Ah, but see God cannot change. "And you stated Of course you can change your mind..." Therefore He cannot change the "rules."

[edit on 6-1-2009 by ps1klon3]

[edit on 6-1-2009 by ps1klon3]

Originally posted by ps1klon3
reply to post by badmedia

 

Look at the definitions of each:
1: an unstoppable force is a force in which nothing can stop
2: an immovable object is an object in which nothing can move

Object and Force are 2 completly different things.

But are they really different? Is the object not a force? Is there not a force that makes it as such?

And does the force not treat something the same way an object would? As if an object was hitting you?

Does each not occupy a "space" as per the question of them being in the same space?

Seems to me, it's just that you can see the object, and you can't see the force. Only thing that really makes them different as far as I can tell. Kind of like putting a light on a car at night, and calling it an object, then turning the lights off and calling it a force. You get hit by either - same result.

reply to post by badmedia


Ah, I edited my last post to be more clear.

Object - has mass and takes up space
Force - force is that which can cause an object with mass to accelerate.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by ps1klon3]

Originally posted by ps1klon3
Ah, but see God cannot change. "And you stated Of course you can change your mind..." Therefore He cannot change the "rules."

In the eyes of god there is no change. Because all is known, there is no time, no change etc. If you've never heard my description of this, let me know and I'll search up a link for you. Basically, as god already knows all and this would be included, it's already happening as a part of it, just not included in our current perspective or presented as such.

So you would have to limit the perception - which can be chosen as well to propose the situation in which the object can be lifted in the first place(a place where change can happen), but this is also possible and proven with man(you are that limited perception, although in the bible the limited perception is called son/daughter of god).

What the question is really asking is dealing with free will, how can you have free will when everything flows to gods will etc.

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: Quote "Wasn't this the subject of another thread a while ago?"
OP's Quote "I searched, but couldnt turn up anything. "



Personal Disclosure: I recommend that you search a little harder next time: FYI
Older Thread Discussing Exact SAME TOPIC word for word! OMG

and I direct you to my post at that thread that hopefully answers/ed the question being asked by both the OP's .

Can God make a stone so heavy that he can not pick it up? :MY RESPONSE!

Oh and BTW

reply to post by ps1klon3


God is a spirit. He doesn't need to move. He is after all God, The Almighty, The Maker of Heaven and Earth, The Creator of all things above and below.

To me the question is mute.


Peace,
Grandma