his presidential kindness obama the generous

www.msnbc.msn.com...

WASHINGTON - President-elect Barack Obama plunged into rare pre-inaugural crisis talks with congressional leaders Monday, declaring the national economy was "bad and getting worse" and embracing tax cuts now expected to reach $300 billion. He predicted lawmakers would approve a mammoth revitalization package within two weeks of his taking office.

Here you have it, folks. Amidst the ailing economy, the government didn't dare to actually start collecting some of the $700 billion designed to rescue the financiers. On the contrary, a tax cut is in the making and if everything goes well, They the People get bailout in a spectacular way. No one, of course, will bitch about that . . .

Obama's proposal to stimulate the economy includes tax cuts of up to $300 billion — including $500 for most individuals and $1,000 for couples if one spouse is employed

This is not going to help and another rescue package will follow. The comedy will continue and before Obama's first term is over, They the People will have pocketed $700 billion.

Interesting that no one is interested in discussing Obama's tax relief that he promised in his campaign. So many were criticizing him for raising taxes on the wealthy (which I think he still will do eventually), that they didn't take seriously his plans to provide tax relief for the middle class to help stimulate the economy.

Many Republicans Reluctantly Agree

Still, that Obama is planning to make tax cuts count for 40 percent of his stimulus plan has heartened some Republicans and will almost certainly make it easier for the new administration to win GOP votes for the measure.

The package also contains significant tax breaks for businesses, including retroactive write-downs on losses incurred in 2008 and 2009, a one-year tax credit for employers who hire workers or forgo layoffs, and a write-off for new investments. House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) last year pushed the idea of tax write-offs for businesses that hire more people or invest in new equipment.

“If it’s true, it would be a step in the right direction,” a House GOP leadership aide said of the overall proposal.

It's funny to see so many Republicans resisting agreement with Obama because they really want to hate him, but can't argue with his priorities so far.

The direction this new bailout is headed is absolutly wrong for this country.
If you look at it closely,it's the same old song and dance we've seen before.

If Obama wanted to stimulate the economy for true effect he would disperse that money to the taxpaying public.Those Billions of dollars would pay off the massive debt that hangs over most people. Home mortages,car notes,credit card debt,all these would virtually disappear.
That would be true stimulis to the economy!!

Many experts that actually agree that the new administration will need to borrow more to be able to make the nation works said that while the tax cuts will be a welcome approach for ailing small businesses as usual the only ones that will be benefiting are the wealthy class.

But this time seems that Obama will be providing with again welfare checks to the working class so they can go and spend them in Wal-Mart and help boost the Chinese economy.

Because that is what the last checks did under bush last year.

Now if Obama is as smart as he is trying to portrait and I am willing ot believe that he is a very extremely smart man, he will stop all taxes on the working class in America for 6 months and see how good the economic will do, as that account for about 3 trillion dollars that the working class (no the rich) will be able to keep in their pockets.

That is what experts believe and I agree with them.

Please tell me what good $500 will do for someone who can't afford heat, food, gas, or mortgage? What good will it do for the people who have or are about to lose their homes and/or their jobs? This won't stimulate anything except being able to pay bills for another week.

$500... ththththpppt! Keep it.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by mecheng]

Originally posted by daddyroo45
Those Billions of dollars would pay off the massive debt that hangs over most people. Home mortages,car notes,credit card debt,all these would virtually disappear.

And, why, pray tell, should I pay off your debt? Obama is not a "savior" come down from heaven to save people from their own irresponsible actions. Debt didn't just "appear" and start hanging over those people. They CREATED it. It's not my job to pay it off for you or anyone.

This is a discussion to a symptom. As long as there is a Federal Reserve we are going to have these problems. We should not be paying income taxes what so ever. We should not be borrowing money from a private bank and having these a-holes pulling money from my paycheck to pay the interest on the loan.

Originally posted by mecheng
Please tell me what good $500 will do for someone who can't afford heat, food, gas, or mortgage? What good will it do for the people who have or are about to lose their homes and/or their jobs? This won't stimulate anything except being able to pay bills for another week.

$500... ththththpppt!

Keep it.

I can tell you roughly what those $1000 for a couple who can't afford to pay electricity bills could do: it will take care of the bill for about 20 months.
www.yelp.com...

You know, the world thinks that Americans are thick, but they have bright national moments, like the recent presidential election. The tax cut will surely help a lot of small business in the hood and paraphernalia shops. Speaking of which, there is one down the street. I should go window shopping, so I could suck on a brand new crack pipe with engraved Presidential Seal when the check arrives. I hope that those criminal Republicans don't give Obama too much trouble. Sign it; send it. Life is good. O beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, la-la-laaa-laa . . .

The way i see it, no matter what tax relief or stimulus check the government gives to Americans, it still won't mean a hill of beans. Business and corporations will merely increase their prices and all that money will go into the pockets of the people running the business and corporations. It is all an illusion to make Americans feel better. Furthermore, what ever savings you see federal wise, you will make up state wise. The States are already in financial chaos and are looking at every avenue to increase revenue. Ouch, anybody got any vaseline.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Interesting that no one is interested in discussing Obama's tax relief that he promised in his campaign. So many were criticizing him for raising taxes on the wealthy (which I think he still will do eventually), that they didn't take seriously his plans to provide tax relief for the middle class to help stimulate the economy.

The problem I have is what is a Obama wealthy? If anyone thinks that the top 5% will be able to pay more to the tune of a trillion dollars that is wishful thinking.

We will see that 250k 200k 150k etc to continue to go lower as more and more persent of the population will be needed to pay the piper. In a few years a person who makes 100k might be wealthy and so get 38% of it taken away.

Yeah, and that 500 0r 1000 comes out of out of your weekly pay check. So that's about 10 or 20 dollars extra per week. Thats hardly a bailout to any individual.

The bailouts and "Stimulus Packages" are a joke. Also none of this changes the fact that it will all have to be paid back. Many of us are already working half the year just to pay taxes....just imagine what are children are going to pay after all is said and done.

I don't want a bailout. Where are all the people that are crying for 10 or 20 dollars more a week? I don't see em. I see people without jobs....but the government now decides who should lose their job and who shouldn't.

It's ok to bailout the frickin auto industry to save jobs but in the meanwhile 500,000 are filing for unemployment each month. What about those people? Are they supposed to be happy with 500 or 1000? Hell No!!! Why aren't they as deserving to keep their jobs? Why doesn't the government dish out some cash to their workplaces to they can keep working....it's all BS!!!!

Obama is more of the same...he doesn't know what he's doing along with the rest of idiots in our government.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
We will see that 250k 200k 150k etc to continue to go lower as more and more persent of the population will be needed to pay the piper.

He never lowered it under $250K. And yes, we will see. Some think they can predict what Obama has planned, and just can't wait to criticize what he hasn't done yet, but we shall see.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I am not asking for anyone to pay my debts for me.How daft are you?What I was eluding to is that being as Obama is going to pass this massive new bailout. He should start at the bottom and let the money work it's way through the system. He really can't do that because we all know that this country's real profit is debt intrest.
I am against these bailouts all together.They weaken the capitol wealth of the citizens at large.

People the more I read into the Obama Stimulus package to "save the economy" the more faults I find in it.

See is a fact that America borrows on the tax payer money to pay for interest alone.

We in America have lost millions of jobs in the last 8 years along.

America tax payer can not pay enough in taxes to lower the incredible expanding deficit.

So America has been borrowing like crazy from our lenders now the biggest China for everyday business.

Do you know what that means, China pays for our everyday government expenses, war, the infrastructure, social programs and government pay rolls.

So Obama solution is to keep borrowing more money, cut taxes and a littler give away to the working class.

People of ATS you are smart people you are passionate people do the math and come to me and tell how this bail out for the economy is going to fix the economy, reduce the deficit and pay off our bills and stop the borrowing.

This is how America used to recover from recessions

In the past recoveries were routine, because recessions were temporary restraints resulting from the Federal Reserve putting the brakes on an overheating economy. By restraining the supply of money and credit, the Fed caused inventory buildup, layoffs, and a halt to price rises and union wage demands. With the economy cooled by unemployment, the Fed would take off the brakes. Interest rates would decline, money would flow, consumer demand would rise and workers would be called back to the factories.

This the present situation of America.

Today the situation is different. In the 21st century real wages have not risen. Workers have spent more by accepting deteriorating household balance sheets. They have maxed out their credit cards and spent the equity in their homes. Imitators of the US government, American consumers borrow to pay their bills.

The expansion of household debt relative to income created the illusion that the economy was sound. But the consumer economy was as much of a credit-based bubble as the real estate bubble and the financial sector bubble. The economy has lost its real basis.

I may sound pessimistic but nobody even those that see Obama as the rescuer cannot deny that Americas road to recovery is just no there.

Any stimulus toward the economy in this nation will go oversea, that means that the stimulus bail out that will be borrowed against tax payer to be backed up with money from our lenders oversea will become more burden into our already bankrupt economy.

Sorry people but that is a fact, ugly dirty but a fact.

www.economyincrisis.org...

Originally posted by daddyroo45
I am not asking for anyone to pay my debts for me.

Sorry, I didn't mean you in particular. I mean the people who have gotten themselves into debt over their heads. The people you think Obama should bail out with his plan.

I am against these bailouts all together.

So am I. I was totally against the TARP (which turned out to be USELESS), I was against the Auto bailout, but at least could understand it somewhat. And I'm actually against Obama's stimulus package, but to a much lesser degree. I do agree with the tax cuts and if he uses it for what he SAYS he's going to use it for (create jobs and strengthen the economy) then I'll accept it much easier. And if it actually works, I'll support it.

PS. You've read my posts. Do I SOUND daft?


[edit on 6-1-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
He never lowered it under $250K. And yes, we will see. Some think they can predict what Obama has planned, and just can't wait to criticize what he hasn't done yet, but we shall see.

I'm not criticizing anything, but anytime you define something it is easy to change it, and I don't see those who make more than 250k pulling us out of trouble, and so will he need the upper 5% of the population or the upper 35%?

The math just doesn't add up as it stands, but taxing the rich more sure makes a great statement when you are running for office for the masses who do not fall into that category... well yet...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


My statement,asking how daft you were,would be the exception.Usually I find that you present good arguement for your stance.However I felt that the point in my previous post,flew by you. The enevitable progression of these bailouts is a given. I was pointing out how they could be most effective. I hope you incurred no insult from me.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

That's the first time in 6 months I've given BH a star for a post.
I'll even give it a as well.

reply to post by marg6043

Marg .. would you please run for POTUS in 2012?

No problem, daddy.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I don't see those who make more than 250k pulling us out of trouble, and so will he need the upper 5% of the population or the upper 35%?

If the top 5% doesn't make any difference, then the top 35% isn't going to, either. Nor the top 50%. Watch this video and get back to me.

Originally posted by marg6043
People of ATS you are smart people you are passionate people do the math and come to me and tell how this bail out for the economy is going to fix the economy, reduce the deficit and pay off our bills and stop the borrowing.

The second attribute is far more fitting.
The article clearly indicates that the proposed taxcut is NOT designed to reduce the deficit or the national debt, mainly because it's technically impossible when the government spending remains the same or it increases. The tax cut is intended as a painkiller shot to the arm of cancer-stricken person. Obama will follow the "wisdom" of Luis XV who summed up his reign in a single-liner "After me deluge," which is as much notorious quote as "Let them eat cake," an 18th century version of a tax cut proposed by Marie Antoinette who wound up headless as her hubby Luis XVI did shortly thereafter.

If you can quote Obama on the national debt reduction, let me know -- I collect rarities.

Btw, the USA will default on every penny of its foreign debt obligation when the time is right. No one gets nothing. Then, the greatest leader of all time will enter the White House, restores the confidence in the US Government, and the triple-A borrowing will start once again from $1 up to $30 trillion followed by The Second Great Default.