Time to take a deep breath, and consider how we post...

I wanted to answer a separate post about the invitation of EU inspectors -how this had been predicted as the sanctions started to bite [and hopefully not cause anyone offence] but this has been removed and actually I am glad - the debate had got very fractionalised.

I wholly agree with the Op that the subject around Isreal / Iran - Jew / Moslem soon ends up in a slagging match - no use for anyone. Let's get this straight - an atrocity is an atrocity - two wrongs don't make a right [this seems to be the poor basis for most of the arguments].

We all have a part to play in this and sadly, none of us do anything about it:
- Where there are stories in the paper about true PEACE then we should bring this to the forum:

Kashmir Railway Line

I have include the above as an example -so what not very sexy - but by opening the line and talking to each other, we realise we are no different - whatever the religion [or non religion].

But no we prefer provocative stories that back up our own ideology - hence why Daily Mail can sell so many papers.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Here we go again the same story every time

reply to post by SkepticOverlord



I think there should be a button to click for members who wish to vent their emotions and a button if they seriously wish to discuss and contribute to a topic

Along the lines of a thread that offers contributions to the world, what about a Nation Building/Maintenance Forum, where, as you have strict guidelines for the other threads, no one need enter the forum who does not see themselves as contributing truly on a world level and their threads and posts are of that quality.

There is a significant amount of conspiracy theory involved which goes un-researched because of the hurling of insults on other threads. Part of this is because of political correctness...in many ways it has ruined the intelligent conversation. Nation builders and maintainers talk straight but clearly without intent to harm.

I know this is an "older" discussion and I appreciate the opportunity to post. In fact, nowhere on the web, is there a freer place to speak. Thank you.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I can't help but interject here that one particular 'race' (or is it a religion?) seems to have the propaganda war sewed up. They control the mass media, we must wonder what control they exercise here. I have personally been pressured by Zionist organizations to keep my views to myself, at times with threats of violence and death.

I strongly feel that political Zionism is front for an insidious conspiracy to dominate the world by persons of Ashkenazim decent who also happen to be in control of the worlds banking system, and I am almost certain I am right. The question is, will I be allowed to prove it here if I cannot directly criticize those I know are behind it?

I am in total agreement. I see no need for people to attack or demean. We are here for only to discuss and learn. Sometimes ideas are unlearned because of another person. Sometimes people are persuaded but it is not my desire to persuade. It is only my desire to learn and offer information that I may have. I have indeed seen posts that are somewhat less than acceptable. I too encourage everyone to take a deep breath, and consider how we post.
thanks for reminding us of what we should be.
DH

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


A portion of the increased hostility is also, unfortunately, related to intolerance of a particular religion and/or race.

It's my opinion that no religion or lack thereof is responsible for the acts of the people. All those who diligently seek the omnipotent source find it through there own accord. Therefore if I am not tolerant of another who is striving to become more aware of the mysteries through any religion, it is a projection of my own shortcomings. I have only hurt myself because of my caste judgement. I have only learned to be sparring of my judgements because I have been judged with the same effect. I didn't like it so why would I pass it on to someone else. Therefore no religion causes conflict, no country causes conflict, the responsibility is on the ones who choose to participate in such a foolish waste of energy and life. To myself the value of my life is more than I have yet to discover as I believe is the case of every being in existence.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by SkepticOverlord]

reply to post by superman2012


I am an iranian and its my firt post on this site. First when i was casting a look at your comments, most of them were just like some sentences made by people who indeen are not aware of iranian people attitudes and issues from inside Iran. Oh you are just watching the matter from above the house! I am inside. listen to me, we ARE hateful of American policies(those aimed at us) because every move that American government is to take, makes us remember bitter memories of America's interference to seek just his own advantages.Surely we like American PEOPLE. We know you as open-minded people who are kind and friendly. Mosadegh was overthrown by your government, Shah and his secret intelligence servise(SAVAK) tortured our people to death and our oil was stolen! , we just remember your government's vicious activities in Iran, we remember America's support of Shah even when he slaughtered iranian people, we know about your government's double policies, look at Bahrain! the king is just killing, torturing people but your media is just off about the issues that do not serve your government's interests, we remember WWII when western countries occupied our land and one third of our people DIED out of hunger because our stupid king at that time was just a tool at the hands of England and America and was feeding foreign troops. we know that your government is angry at every progress that is made in this land. i also hate those like Taliban who are just a bunch of murderers. We iranian want to stand on our own feet, independent, soemthing that your government is going to deprive us of. We have created Hizbollah to defeat those zionists who are committing whatever crime.

reply to post by templar knight


Well
I am an iranian and its my firt post on this site. First when i was casting a look at your comments, most of them were just like some sentences made by people who indeen are not aware of iranian people attitudes and issues from inside Iran. Oh you are just watching the matter from above the house! I am inside. listen to me, we ARE hateful of American policies(those aimed at us) because every move that American government is to take, makes us remember bitter memories of America's interference to seek just his own advantages.Surely we like American PEOPLE. We know you as open-minded people who are kind and friendly. Mosadegh was overthrown by your government, Shah and his secret intelligence servise(SAVAK) tortured our people to death and our oil was stolen! , we just remember your government's vicious activities in Iran, we remember America's support of Shah even when he slaughtered iranian people, we know about your government's double policies, look at Bahrain! the king is just killing, torturing people but your media is just off about the issues that do not serve your government's interests, we remember WWII when western countries occupied our land and one third of our people DIED out of hunger because our stupid king at that time was just a tool at the hands of England and America and was feeding foreign troops. we know that your government is angry at every progress that is made in this land. i also hate those like Taliban who are just a bunch of murderers. We iranian want to stand on our own feet, independent, soemthing that your government is going to deprive us of. We have created Hizbollah to defeat those zionists who are committing whatever crime.

Read and understood. I agree to comply.

reply to post by hp1229


Here is a button to make everything OK. Use it in good health. May the farce be with you.

reply to post by InterdimensionalWarrior


reply to post by newyorkee


Well, i surely respect your stances.
About your country i think it IS run by a group who are freemasons. I think they do not think about their people's interests. they think of big corporations interests. when i see PEPSI ( Pay Each Penny to Save Isreal) COCA COLA and lot's of banks and others... i can see your administration. when faced people who are tired of wars in iraq & afghanistan, they just brought a BLACK person(OBAMA) and a WOMAN (clinton) for 2008 electons to just make you excited & deceive you again to make their policies go on again in just a different form. just a different FORM!
in iran before Ahmadinejad, KHatami (former president) was just saying YES to all demands made by wester powers, but what was the gains for us? almost nothing! after all those cooperation that KHatami made to them, they simply said ok you should abandon ALL your nuclear activities! nothing should you do. oh wow it was the result of our complience to the world community! ( ironically world community means america, france, itally and germany). we understood that your governments wants to see always himself and his friends as developed countries and downplay and abuse those other who want to get developed.

Boy oh boy, SOPA has really put a wild hare up ATS's behind!

All these controls, conditions, restrictions and censorship on ATS is really getting bad. It seems they aren't waiting for the axe to fall and doing to ATS that which they think the government will do in the near future.

I personally don't read posts that appear to bait bigots and promote racism and I had initially joined ATS because of the thoughtful exchanges and polite behavior, but the restrictions to free speech on ATS are getting way over the top lately. I may have noticed a decrease in questionable posts but I don't think the character of members has improved, in fact I feel that the quality of members (new ones at least) has decreased in the past couple of years.

I think I'll go back to lurking or quit ATS altogether, I don't think I'll be missed at all. ATS, in my opinion, is becoming a strong handed hypocrite with regards to free speech.

PS, I'm not advocating hate speech, but people should have the opportunity to express their views on any topic, as long as they aren't breaking the law. Everyone has the right to say stupid and racist crap even if it isn't PC. Of course the argument can be made that people have a right to say whatever they want, but they don't have any right to be heard. That's according to Rush Limbaugh by the way!

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Because of the recent increase in hostilities in the middle east, specifically the long-standing Israeli/Plaestinian conflict, there has been a marked increase in hostility reflected in some posts on AboveTopSecret.com.

Some of this increased hostility is certainly attributable to the intense multi-facted passions inherent in the long-standing disputes and hatreds of the region.


A portion of the increased hostility is also, unfortunately, related to intolerance of a particular religion and/or race.

I need to take this time to remind all of our members that we strive to seek the higher-ground of discussion here on AboveTopSecret.com.


We encourage critical analysis of the policies of governments.

We discourage ethnic bias.

We understand that a harsh opinion of the policies of a government likely do not extend to the race of people governed.

We expect that members do not insult each other, even in the context of a highly passionate topic.

We understand, and tolerate as best we can, pointed exchanges within the context of a highly passionate topic.

We do not, and will not, understand blanket insults thrown in the general direction of all those of a certain ethic group and/or religion.


As you engage in collaborative discussion of the problems currently faced by the people of Gaza and Israel as a result of the actions of those in power in Government, Religious Leadership, and Regional Authorities, please keep our spirit of intent in mind.

From this point forward, any contributions from members on the topic currently dominating middle east discussion that beyond the boundaries discussed outlined here is subject to immediate removal... and repeated removals of a member's posts will result in account termination.


Thank you in advance for your consideration and cooperation in ensuring that discussion here on ATS remains focused on the issues, is collaborative, and is intended for the mutual education of our members and readers.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by SkepticOverlord]

Indeed. "Jews" do not equal "Israeli's" any more than "Muslims" equal "Iranians".

I personally know a lot of Jewish people who do not support the Israeli occupation of Gaza and I also know people of the Islamic faith that find the human rights policies of many Middle Eastern countries to be deplorable.

Likewise, the religious texts of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam alike ALL read like a schizophrenic's manual for ethics in which murdering your fellow human is both alternately a "sin" and "A-OK"...depending which chapter you read.

Religion and Foreign Policy are not the same thing...no matter how hard our Overlords try to convince us it is.

Originally posted by IranianBoy
reply to post by templar knight

 

Well
I am an iranian and its my firt post on this site. First when i was casting a look at your comments, most of them were just like some sentences made by people who indeen are not aware of iranian people attitudes and issues from inside Iran. Oh you are just watching the matter from above the house! I am inside. listen to me, we ARE hateful of American policies(those aimed at us) because every move that American government is to take, makes us remember bitter memories of America's interference to seek just his own advantages.Surely we like American PEOPLE. We know you as open-minded people who are kind and friendly. Mosadegh was overthrown by your government, Shah and his secret intelligence servise(SAVAK) tortured our people to death and our oil was stolen! , we just remember your government's vicious activities in Iran, we remember America's support of Shah even when he slaughtered iranian people, we know about your government's double policies, look at Bahrain! the king is just killing, torturing people but your media is just off about the issues that do not serve your government's interests, we remember WWII when western countries occupied our land and one third of our people DIED out of hunger because our stupid king at that time was just a tool at the hands of England and America and was feeding foreign troops. we know that your government is angry at every progress that is made in this land. i also hate those like Taliban who are just a bunch of murderers. We iranian want to stand on our own feet, independent, soemthing that your government is going to deprive us of. We have created Hizbollah to defeat those zionists who are committing whatever crime.

Thank you for also making the distinction between PEOPLE and POLICIES. The US is very much like Iran in many ways. 70%-ish of the population is basically held hostage by a 30%-ish minority of religious kooks, extremists, and uneducated hill-folk. Likewise, we do not control our media. The mainstream news is nothing less than propaganda solely for the purpose of Wall Street's interests.

We have this "myth" of Americans being "free"...but our last President whom was truly LOVED by us and by the world was murdered by our own intelligence apparatus in broad daylight in 1963. A few years later...the same was done to his brother. A couple decades later...JFK's only son has a mysterious "plane accident". Every major presidential election for the last 12 years has been marred by RAMPANT election fraud. Ron Paul is a good man, a peaceful man, and a FAIR man. 3/4 of the people on the street that support Ron Paul...yet he doesn't take a SINGLE state? As we say in the West...Bulls*&^t. We are being lied to...yet again.

While I will not begin to compare the suffering of the Iranian people at the hands for the benefit of the oil companies...I would suggest you watch a recent BBC documentary entitled "Poor America" which came out a couple of months ago. I am not sure if it is available in Iran...but if it is it might be surprising to you just how poor many of us are as well.

At the end of the day...most of the world's population are just peaceful peasants who would much rather share dinner with people from other countries as opposed to fight them.

We are all slaves to our respective owners. World peace will be achieved the day all of the world's 19 yr old terrified peasant boys decide it really doesn't make any sense to follow these orders to kill the other sides peasant boys.

It happened in WWI for a single day during the Christmas Truce....perhaps it might happen again some day.
Much suffering ahead for all of the world's good people if it does not.

Such a waste. Humanity...The species that might been.

Originally posted by IranianBoy
reply to post by InterdimensionalWarrior

 

reply to post by newyorkee

 

Well, i surely respect your stances.
About your country i think it IS run by a group who are freemasons. I think they do not think about their people's interests. they think of big corporations interests. when i see PEPSI ( Pay Each Penny to Save Isreal) COCA COLA and lot's of banks and others... i can see your administration. when faced people who are tired of wars in iraq & afghanistan, they just brought a BLACK person(OBAMA) and a WOMAN (clinton) for 2008 electons to just make you excited & deceive you again to make their policies go on again in just a different form. just a different FORM!
in iran before Ahmadinejad, KHatami (former president) was just saying YES to all demands made by wester powers, but what was the gains for us? almost nothing! after all those cooperation that KHatami made to them, they simply said ok you should abandon ALL your nuclear activities! nothing should you do. oh wow it was the result of our complience to the world community! ( ironically world community means america, france, itally and germany). we understood that your governments wants to see always himself and his friends as developed countries and downplay and abuse those other who want to get developed.

if this is middle east forum

why do i see topics about religion (which should belong in the religion area of the forum) and topics about countries which aren't part of the middle east?

One cannot 'hate' something that does not exist (God, religion)- it's nonsensical. People's hate is directed towards the actions enacted in the name of these fictitious superstitions-cum-systems of control for the uneducated and un-evolved mind.

There's nothing wrong with feeling odium for those that do wrong by others. It's why we have laws in civilised countries- it's a manifestation of society's hate for wrongdoing.

My silly opinion, such as it is, is this is not the place, in fact, totally oppositional to the place, to be airing that particular bias.....

It's why many of us remain here.
Tetra50
Thanks for a clarification that should not have been neceessary, IMHO, on a site such as this....but that's just the way I see the discourse here.....

Originally posted by MisterMahound
One cannot 'hate' something that does not exist (God, religion)- it's nonsensical. People's hate is directed towards the actions enacted in the name of these fictitious superstitions-cum-systems of control for the uneducated and un-evolved mind.

There's nothing wrong with feeling odium for those that do wrong by others. It's why we have laws in civilised countries- it's a manifestation of society's hate for wrongdoing.

But should laws really be necessary to achieve that goal, really? If we are ever to evolve? And is that not why many of us take time and effort and intellect to discuss issues here, after all, to fight that particular monster, which should long past, in my opinion, transcended law, as law does little to address it, really, the attitude being so pervasive?