There Is A God!

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by theresult

 

hey result...

OT's got 2 words for you...

DEE!

CAFF!!

trust me i tried.. lol

Wow, read a maths book? No one can prove that God exists kinda like you can't prove dark matter exists. I mean, you know it's there because it has to be there to prove a theory.

As for math, are you saying that math has proved the inexistence of God? I remember seeing that on the Simpsons but I rarely believe anything I see on the Simpsons. Now don't get me wrong, it's a great show, but we never did see the calculations.

If you don't believe in God, that's quite alright. If you don't believe in religion, that's okay as well. It's not for me or anyone else to make you believe, it's solely up to each individual. All I was saying in my post is that we'll find out on each of our last days.

Originally posted by Feltrick
Wow, read a maths book? No one can prove that God exists kinda like you can't prove dark matter exists. I mean, you know it's there because it has to be there to prove a theory.

As for math, are you saying that math has proved the inexistence of God? I remember seeing that on the Simpsons but I rarely believe anything I see on the Simpsons. Now don't get me wrong, it's a great show, but we never did see the calculations.

If you don't believe in God, that's quite alright. If you don't believe in religion, that's okay as well. It's not for me or anyone else to make you believe, it's solely up to each individual. All I was saying in my post is that we'll find out on each of our last days.

Im not saying maths can prove jack jiggery.. thats my point.. people talk of god.. and then use there ipod ?

make up ur mind? some people are totaly lost .. LOL maths is why you are able to post on ATS.. can i prove that yes.. can you yes??

can i mathamaticly prove there are infact aliens YES becouse i use MATHS the same thing you base your entire being on...

How can i prove that? We base MATHS on LIFE its how we understand IT...

can you mathamaticly PROVE GOD? no you cant becouse you have no idea what god is.. or any undestanding..

Can i prove aliens are here using maths? YES.. tho i dont want to say the drake equation.. but he was close..

let me ask you this... do you think being here is more odd than aliens?..

reply to post by theresult



I got to start out by saying that English is not my main language. So some might misunderstand my points.

What you now have done is to show me a way to use math to get a understanding of reality. You are using logic within numbers. But if you use this with creation. Lets say that God is=0 and creation is=1. What dose 0 really mean and what dose 1 mean. My question is: Is 0 greater then 1. Can you have a 1. without having had a 0 first.

So now we know we can use math for different reasons and in different ways.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by theresult

 

I got to start out by saying that English is not my main language. So some might misunderstand my points.

What you now have done is to show me a way to use math to get a understanding of reality. You are using logic within numbers. But if you use this with creation. Lets say that God is=0 and creation is=1. What dose 0 really mean and what dose 1 mean. My question is: Is 0 greater then 1. Can you have a 1. without having had a 0 first.

So now we know we can use math for different reasons and in different ways.

no it is reality.. just ours.. Look if you send a rocket into space and we have wi fi and all that jazz its maths.. every thing we measure is in maths.. we can even work out the logic of words.. its not hard jeez..

but we are a reflection OF Life life is like the map of life or the code on what we follow becoue thats our dimenion "ect" level of thinking..

aliens dont ask why? why why = pi = loop

its never been about god its always been about us .. we never stoped to ask that part..

and thats why we will never understand who we are becouse we ask why we are.. LOOP

maths is more fun when you apply it to maths.. nothing is logical only us. on our level.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by theresult

 

I got to start out by saying that English is not my main language. So some might misunderstand my points.

What you now have done is to show me a way to use math to get a understanding of reality. You are using logic within numbers. But if you use this with creation. Lets say that God is=0 and creation is=1. What dose 0 really mean and what dose 1 mean. My question is: Is 0 greater then 1. Can you have a 1. without having had a 0 first.

So now we know we can use math for different reasons and in different ways.

0 and 1 are both the same thing

you need to look at it as a big joke a BIG JOKE you look at it and see 0 and 1 both are 0 0 and 1 1 there just the outcome ..

Maths loops thats its job.. to loop We loop becouse we dont understad it..


We are the loop We are PI We are symmity

1+1= 2 / 2 = 1+1

dumb ;0

reply to post by theresult


Just because you can make a math equation to show that aliens exist does not prove that aliens exist. The proof of alien life has to be the actual alien life. Math can only take you so far.

As I cannot use math to prove the existence of God does not mean that God does not exist.

Both sides will argue this until death, that's when we'll have the proof needed. Unfortunately, we won't be able to prove it to others. I mean, if Houdini couldn't prove it (or so it was reported) then no one can. And that's where it comes down to simple faith. You have faith in science and I have faith in God. No amount of debate or arguing is going to change our minds. These posts will always turn out the same with both sides getting tired or arguing the same points of view but they keep going on.

So, both statements, "There is no God" and "There is a God" are both correct, for now. Perhaps, if you don't believe in God then there will be nothing waiting for you on the other side, but this I do not believe.

Originally posted by theresult

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by theresult

 

I got to start out by saying that English is not my main language. So some might misunderstand my points.

What you now have done is to show me a way to use math to get a understanding of reality. You are using logic within numbers. But if you use this with creation. Lets say that God is=0 and creation is=1. What dose 0 really mean and what dose 1 mean. My question is: Is 0 greater then 1. Can you have a 1. without having had a 0 first.

So now we know we can use math for different reasons and in different ways.

0 and 1 are both the same thing

you need to look at it as a big joke a BIG JOKE you look at it and see 0 and 1 both are 0 0 and 1 1 there just the outcome ..

Maths loops thats its job.. to loop We loop becouse we dont understad it..


We are the loop We are PI We are symmity

1+1= 2 / 2 = 1+1

dumb ;0

No you look at it wrong. 0 is a infinite number. It always have to exist within math. Everything within math is a relative to 0.

Its just like 0 is a platform for everything. It has to exist in order to put other number in to place. So is time!! Time is a relative to 0 as well. It is relative to a beginning. You cant put a 1 without first having had a 0.

A zero cant produce an other zero. 0+0=is not 1 but another 0.
And 0-0=is not -0 it is just 0.

This is a method one can use to look at dimensions. All the dimensions are 0 infinite. If you take a rock and place it in space it will always be in the center. No Mather where you put it. And if you take a new rock and place it in space it will also be in the center no Mather where you put it. But it will have a direction to the other rock. These two rocks now form a two dimension between then inside the 0 dimension that already was.

We also use 0 to defy matter. We use number to defy matter as a relative to 0. Zero is a infinite number and matter (1) is not.

Now you believe that Aliens exist,But in an other dimension. What dimension would that be. Are you now talking about a spiritual dimension!

Because to get this right you have to understand what dimensions you are referring to. Now you see. We can see all the dimensions but not through them,we can only see a certain amount of sides to a dimensions. For eks. if you have a sting of 1m you can only see the one side at a time. But you still see the string and you can measure it to 1m. If you have a planet you can see the side you are looking at but not the space behind it or the inside of it.

When you look into space you can see everything as long as there is light passing through. But what creates a dimension in space is the matter that is put in it. If there are aliens in space they are as real as we are. And they cant have eternal life.Because they are 1's just like we are. Unless they are spirits. which we cant defy what is.

Because if aliens are spirits and relate to us.Then we have to have spirits as well. And if that is true then i would believe in a God. And say that we just have other created spirits besides us.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by spy66
If you ask a non believer how the Moon was made and placed where it is. You will hear a lot of funny stuff. Because they dont know.

If you ask a non believer how the other planets in our solar system or the other systems came to be or in what order they where made. You wont hear a thing because they dont know.

Thats the most amusing and highly ironic thing I've read in a while on these boards-if it was down to religion,particularly abrahamic religion,we would still be wallowing around in ignorance mindlessly beleiving that the sky and everything in it was a smoothly curved solid dome with little spangly lights dotted about on it.

The bible refers to the 'firmament' which is Latin translated from the Greek word 'Stereoma' meaning 'solid dome' - this in turn is translated from the Hebrew word 'Rakia' which means 'thin metallic sheet'.

It took objective,rational free thought coupled with the courage to stand up against 'fear and ignorance based on superstition' (which usualy got you burned at the stake by insecure religious bigots) to realise the true nature of the universe and our planets place in it.

As Mark Twain said:

"The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born."
Mark Twain

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by spy66
If you ask a non believer how the Moon was made and placed where it is. You will hear a lot of funny stuff. Because they dont know.

If you ask a non believer how the other planets in our solar system or the other systems came to be or in what order they where made. You wont hear a thing because they dont know.

Thats the most amusing and highly ironic thing I've read in a while on these boards-if it was down to religion,particularly abrahamic religion,we would still be wallowing around in ignorance mindlessly beleiving that the sky and everything in it was a smoothly curved solid dome with little spangly lights dotted about on it.

The bible refers to the 'firmament' which is Latin translated from the Greek word 'Stereoma' meaning 'solid dome' - this in turn is translated from the Hebrew word 'Rakia' which means 'thin metallic sheet'.

It took objective,rational free thought coupled with the courage to stand up against 'fear and ignorance based on superstition' (which usualy got you burned at the stake by insecure religious bigots) to realise the true nature of the universe and our planets place in it.

As Mark Twain said:

"The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born."
Mark Twain

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Can science do better!! Then the Bible in this case. No it cant. If so show me. And just for the record. Who started with astronomy in the old days. Was it not some time after Noah. And was it not made by people who didn't believe in God but made their own Gods from their science and discoveries.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by darkjedi523
The most preposterous notion that Homo sapiens have ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history. -Lazarus Long (Time Enough For Love-Robert A. Heinlein)

Great quote-thanks for posting

I've always admired the honesty of this one..

“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
James Maddison US President

..and I suspect theres a lot of truth in this one

Religion supports nobody. It has to be supported. It produces no wheat, no corn; it ploughs no land; it fells no forests. It is a perpetual mendicant. It lives on the labors of others, and then has the arrogance to pretend that it supports the giver.
Robert G. Ingersoll

and this one extolling the benefits of freethinking:

Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking; where it is absent, discussion is apt to become worse than useless.
Leo Tolstoy

reply to post by Lonelypoet


Good luck!!! I mean that sincerely but In think you wil need it if you think you can change ones mind...

You hit it on the head in one of your Posts, they can not have a God control their behavior because their behavior is against God Word and they prefer their earthly lives to anything heavenly...

But I know where they come from, because it is where I came from before God changed me...

I pray for hem all but that is all we can do for them, remember wide is the path of destruction and narrow and few are they that come to the Glory of God...

reply to post by spy66

If you ask a non believer how the Moon was made and placed where it is. You will hear a lot of funny stuff. Because they dont know.

If you ask a non believer how the other planets in our solar system or the other systems came to be or in what order they where made. You wont hear a thing because they dont know.

Interesting that you've not remarked on these ludicrous comments and just conveniently progressed to the historical origin of astronomy (the ancient Sumerian and Chinese civilisations).

Just what do you mean by 'better than the bible' -do you think beleiving 'the sky is a big solid dome dotted with sparkly lights' is a viable proposition.

If it weren't for folks like Bruno,scientific inventions like the telescope and the age of enlightenment I've no doubt organised religion would still have us beleiving scripture as 'unquestionable,unassailable fact' and murdering people who thought otherwise.

reply to post by karl 12


Well you can have your beliefs if i can have mine. No mater what we will never agree.

I've noticed that religious individuals lack logic for some apparent reason

Anybody else ?

Originally posted by karl 12

Just what do you mean by 'better than the bible' -do you think believing 'the sky is a big solid dome dotted with sparky lights' is a viable proposition.

I'm sure that lots of people do...

It's not that hard to believe that many of them are capable of dealing with and accepting lots of nonsense just to somehow get the hold of that promised world called eternity in heaven.

Just look around you.

They think it's worth it. Nobody wants to die, nobody wants to just stop existing. Indeed, the question I'm often asked by believers is "Don't you care what's gonna happen to you when you die???"

Now, since they have this "free" access to ETERNITY (="I have answers to all the big questions"), ego boost comes to the light (a.k.a. enlightenment, lol). Apparently they can confirm that Bible is the true because it is written so in it.

The glorious "victory" of circular logic. Amen.

Originally posted by 5thElement

Originally posted by karl 12

Just what do you mean by 'better than the bible' -do you think believing 'the sky is a big solid dome dotted with sparky lights' is a viable proposition.

I'm sure that lots of people do...

It's not that hard to believe that many of them are capable of dealing with and accepting lots of nonsense just to somehow get the hold of that promised world called eternity in heaven.

Just look around you.

They think it's worth it. Nobody wants to die, nobody wants to just stop existing. Indeed, the question I'm often asked by believers is "Don't you care what's gonna happen to you when you die???"

Now, since they have this "free" access to ETERNITY (="I have answers to all the big questions"), ego boost comes to the light (a.k.a. enlightenment, lol). Apparently they can confirm that Bible is the true because it is written so in it.

The glorious "victory" of circular logic. Amen.

What you say here is quite fair, but is it wrong to believe that there is something else after death. If i like to believe that there is do you have a problem with that. How is that going to affect you in any way. I am not forcing anybody to believe in a God. I cant do that and i am not mocking you for not believing that there is. We just have a different opinion on the mater that's all. What ever makes you happy is good for me. You can be your own god until you die. And if there is life after death we will see who is right when we die right. Until then good luck with what you like to believe in.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by bignick
I've noticed that religious individuals lack logic for some apparent reason

Anybody else ?

Yeah where did you get your logic from. Have you ever thought about that. What is logic if i may ask and how did you get it. And why do we disagree on so many logical things. If everything is so logic.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by Lonelypoet

 

Good luck!!! I mean that sincerely but In think you wil need it if you think you can change ones mind...

No matter how hard the Children of God try to convert you, if you are a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction (Romans 9), you will never hear the truth and be granted repentance.

Instead, you will live your life exactly how God has ordained it, apart from Him and without peace.

If, however, you are a vessel of mercy, you have belonged to God from the foundation of the world, and He will quicken (make alive) your spirit in His time through the hearing of the word.

It's not your choice.

But don't worry - if you are a vessel of wrath, the things of God are foolishness to you and your sin will not bother you in this lifetime. In the end, I'm afraid, you will see the wrath of God and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Have a nice life...... BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by darkjedi523


Heinlein is an interesting thinker. Part of the problem appears to be the difference between the english language translation and the original ancient languages and even older concepts, of the biblical texts. If one were to go back to the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Chaldean of the Old Testament, for example, they would find that the original words are a layered affair. One word in hebrew can mean several different things. It's a symbol heavy language, as well. Layered meanings are apparent in many cases. The english language approaches metaphor, symbollism and word usage entirely different than the older biblical languages did, which causes yet another problem.

These differences can cause severe translation error, misunderstanding and ultimately, confusion. To resolve the issue, it really is necessary to look at the ancient writings of the surrounding cultures and the etymologies of all of them as a whole. (Comparative analysis is your friend.) Etymology truly is the path to understanding the intent of the Old Testament. With that particular issue attended to, some of the variants in opinion on the same text, can be resolved down to a singular meaning that removes the confusion (and the discrepancies).

For example, the concept of a demanding god who wants "worship" has been misconstrued due to translation error. Worship is translated simply as work. Work can mean physical labor OR spiritual inner work (you work on yourself). This is further clarified in New Testament writing, which is closer to our current language, having as its foundation, the more modern hebrew, AND the greek and latin languages from which english was derived.

So if this is true, and your worship is really just a class in being a better inner person, it appears the idea that god destroyed this, that and the other thing due to sin, is expressed ........incorrectly. There's a missing piece of the puzzle, and I'm guessing that it is the piece that bridges the gap between the Old covenant and the New. That ever widening chasm between how Jesus approached the issue of "work" and how Jehovah applied it.

It's entirely possible that lack of faith and an unwillingness to study it out as an individual, is part of what lead to translation error. Let's take Zeitgeist the Movie, for example. The word 'sun" and "son" are nothing alike in the egyptian language, neither in letter or in glyph. Establishing a complex theory such as the idea that Jesus was simply a resurrected fiction of the Egyptian Horus, on the pretext that son of God and sun god are the same, is laughable. it reminds me of the gentleman that tried to sell me the idea that there was a group of alien gods who had an organization called GOD (which was an acronym for galatic order of deities or something like that). God is a german word.

Le mew, le sigh, le get a clue.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by undo]