*new presentation* Over The Navy Annex featuring Terry Morin

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

2. Do agree that Terry Morin specifically confirmed he was 10 feet in between the wings in front of the security shack in between the 4the and 5th wings?

I then realized that I was wearing sunglasses and needed to go back to Lot 3to retrieve my clear lenses. Since it was by no means a short walk to my car, I was upset with myself for being so distracted. (Therefore he was facing the direction of the parking lot) Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual. (Once outside the wings walking to his car, he turned right toward the security check in building.)
www.geocities.com...

1. Do you agree that Terry Morin specifically stated in 2001 that the plane was "right over the top" of him and the Navy Annex and that he confirmed in 2006 that the fuselage of the plane was directly over him and the Navy Annex?

I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking about at that moment, but I started to hear an increasingly loud rumbling behind me and to my left. As I turned to my left, I immediately realized the noise was bouncing off the 4-story structure that was Wing 5. One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view. By that time the noise was absolutely deafening. I instantly had a very bad feeling about this but things were happening very quickly. The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB).

www.geocities.com...

I guess you can't understand a thing anyone writes, Craig. Morin was outside the wings when AA77 approached.

reply to post by jthomas


The questions were posed to CameronFox and GenRadek, not you.

No matter how much you plug your ears and ignore the evidence jthomas, the recorded interview with Terry Morin in the OP exists.

I know the truth hurts and believe me we all would prefer it wasn't the case but it is what it is and some of us prefer not to live a lie no matter how hard the truth is to accept.

Plus you only attempted to answer 2 out of 4 questions.


Now....considering Morin's written account AS WELL AS his recorded oral account presented in the OP where he was infinitely more specific and confirms exact details about his exact location and the exact position of the plane I pose the following slightly re-worded questions with one added for posterity to CameronFox and GenRadek:

1. Do you agree that Terry Morin specifically stated in 2001 that the plane was "right over the top" of him and the Navy Annex and that he specifically confirmed in 2008 that the fuselage of the plane was directly over him and the Navy Annex?

2. Do agree that Terry Morin specifically confirmed in 2008 that he was 10 feet in between the wings in front of the security shack in between the 4th and 5th wings when the fuselage of the plane flew over the top of him?

3. Do you understand how it is physically impossible to see the side of an aircraft when the fuselage is only about 100 feet directly above you as he describes?

4. Do you understand how a plane directly over the Navy Annex is corroborated by many other witnesses and how this simple fact fatally contradicts all official reports, data, and the physical damage?

5. Do you agree that in 2008 Terry Morin stated he was interviewed by the FBI 3 times but was unable to tell the authorities it was an AA jet because he only saw the belly and that he also cited this explanation as the reason why he misidentified the aircraft as a 737?


Also....note how in the 2001 written account that he only specifically states that he told the authorities it was a 737, not that it was an AA jet.

I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn’t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities.

As an aviator if Morin HAD seen the stripes on the side there would be no doubt in his mind that it was an AA jet and he specifically says as much in 2008:

If I would have seen a side view I could have told the people it was an American Airlines jet. Because I would have seen the stripes. Didn't see the stripes I saw the silver belly.

He couldn't be any more clear. This is why first-hand confirmation of eyewitness accounts is so important.

Plus the notion that this is a memory issue is plain old silly. He is not foggy when making this statement. The notion that he would forget instantly recognizing it as an AA jet AND reporting this to the authorities is ridiculous.

If it was a memory issue he would have said something to the effect of....I don't remember if I instantly recognized it as an AA jet and told this to the authorities...

But that's not how it was. He was obviously quite confident and specific in the fact that he COULD NOT tell it was AA and that he WAS NOT able to report that it was to the authorities.




[edit on 11-1-2009 by Craig Ranke CIT]

Excellent job Craig! This Terry Morin interview really drives the point home. I can see the detractors are working overtime this past week. Especially with the P4T presentations and now this interview. Keep up the good work!

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


I have posted two pictures from directly under the belly at much lower hieghts and I have no problem seeing the red stripe. And since his 1st account mentions the stripes, I don't understand how he can see them and remember them one day, then SIX YEARS LATER forget and say he didn't see them. So either A) he is lying or B) he is notoriously unreliable.

Oh and an important thing, in his account he is 10ft OUT from the gap not 10ft in between the wings.

Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual.

There is big difference and it is important to be able to understand what you are reading. Reading comprehension is an important skill. Unfortunately I see it is almost always lacking in the CT camp. I wonder why this is. 10 ft out from in between the wings means he is 10 ft AWAY from being in between the wings. He was not walking in between the wings he was outside them and outside the gap about 10 ft. And since this is the case, the 757 was traveling over the road next to the Annex.

And once agian: PERSPECTIVE. Did I not say this before? Or did you ignore it and hope it goes away?For somebody a few blocks away a plane flying along side the annex, it would appear it is "directly over" the annex. Logically this is a very possible scenario and MUST be taken into account. Did you account for this possibility or hope no one would notice it when you make your claims? Cause if you are truely interested in finding out the truth, you MUST take EVERYTHING into account. Not just cherry picking and hedging and trimming to your preconcieved notions.

[edit on 1/12/2009 by GenRadek]

What you all missed in the above post of jthomas, is him misrepresenting facts.

In this link:
www.geocities.com...
the quoted text BEGINS first with some more lines than he choose to use.
This is the full first text :

I had just reached the elevator in the 5th Wing of BMDO/Federal Office Building (FOB) #2 – call it approximately 9:36 AM.
I was already trying to make some sense out of the World Trade Tower attacks having heard about them on the radio. The news was sketchy, but the fact that it was a terrorist attack was already known.
I then realized that I was wearing sunglasses and needed to go back to Lot 3 to retrieve my clear lenses. Since it was by no means a short walk to my car, I was upset with myself for being so distracted.
Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual.

It is damn obvious from these first lines, that he was inside building 5 of the Navy Annex, standing in front of the elevator, when Terry Morin realized he forgot his clear lenses.

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT:
2. Do you agree that Terry Morin specifically confirmed he was 10 feet in between the wings in front of the security shack in between the 4th and 5th wings?

I then realized that I was wearing sunglasses and needed to go back to Lot 3to retrieve my clear lenses. Since it was by no means a short walk to my car, I was upset with myself for being so distracted.

( jthomas: Therefore he was facing the direction of the parking lot)

Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual.

( jthomas: Once outside the wings walking to his car, he turned right toward the security check in building.)

www.geocities.com...

It's crystal clear that in fact, Terry walked back from the elevator INSIDE the 5th Wing building and was just out from the 5th Wing entrance door, which is facing Wing 4, already walking 10 steps in between these two Wings, when he made a gentle turn to the right on the foot path in the middle, so he could see the security check-in shack facing Wing 4, standing on the street side, which is across the Navy Annex parking lot, which parking lot lays in between the street and all 8 Wings, which are standing all 8, perpendicular to this parking lot and the street.

He is STILL walking in between WING 4 and 5, somewhere in the middle between these two Wings, where the foot path lays in the middle between the two long small grass lawns, when he first hears the plane's noise.

Wing 5 is the one nearest to the Pentagon, so the plane first crossed over Wing 4, then the room in between, and then crossed over Wing 5.

So both the inserted remarks by jthomas are based on a mistaken interpretation.

Originally posted by jthomas

1. Do you agree that Terry Morin specifically stated in 2001 that the plane was "right over the top" of him and the Navy Annex and that he confirmed in 2006 that the fuselage of the plane was directly over him and the Navy Annex?

I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking about at that moment, but I started to hear an increasingly loud rumbling behind me and to my left. As I turned to my left, I immediately realized the noise was bouncing off the 4-story structure that was Wing 5. One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view. By that time the noise was absolutely deafening. I instantly had a very bad feeling about this but things were happening very quickly. The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB).

www.geocities.com...

I guess you can't understand a thing anyone writes, Craig. Morin was outside the wings when AA77 approached.

Terry was walking in the space in between Wing 5 and 4, towards the outer edge of the FOB (the FOB is the name for all 8 Wings of the Navy Annex buildings) and thus towards the parking lot which lays parallel along the street.
Wing 5 was thus to his left, since Wings 8 to 5 are nearer to the Pentagon than Wings 1 to 4.

I think you have to apologize for that last statement, when you want to show character.
A man shows to be a real man when he can admit he was wrong.

EDIT: inserted the second line ""Originally posted by jthomas "" in the second quote. ENDEDIT.

[edit on 12/1/09 by LaBTop]

Same goes for you, GenRadek, show us you can admit to be wrong :

There is big difference and it is important to be able to understand what you are reading. Reading comprehension is an important skill. Unfortunately I see it is almost always lacking in the CT camp. I wonder why this is. 10 ft out from in between the wings means he is 10 ft AWAY from being in between the wings. He was not walking in between the wings he was outside them and outside the gap about 10 ft. And since this is the case, the 757 was traveling over the road next to the Annex.

And once agian: PERSPECTIVE. Did I not say this before? Or did you ignore it and hope it goes away?For somebody a few blocks away a plane flying along side the annex, it would appear it is "directly over" the annex. Logically this is a very possible scenario and MUST be taken into account. Did you account for this possibility or hope no one would notice it when you make your claims? Cause if you are truely interested in finding out the truth, you MUST take EVERYTHING into account. Not just cherry picking and hedging and trimming to your preconcieved notions.

[edit on 1/12/2009 by GenRadek]

And please, do not edit your post again. It's hard to have to admit to be wrong, but I know you both can.
You're not real evil, like the real perpetra(i)tors of 9/11.

LabTop nailed it.

Great job!


Now....considering Morin's written account AS WELL AS his recorded oral account presented in the OP where he was infinitely more specific and confirms exact details about his exact location and the exact position of the plane I pose the following slightly re-worded questions with one added for posterity to CameronFox and GenRadek:

1. Do you agree that Terry Morin specifically stated in 2001 that the plane was "right over the top" of him and the Navy Annex and that he specifically confirmed in 2008 that the fuselage of the plane was directly over him and the Navy Annex?

2. Do agree that Terry Morin specifically confirmed in 2008 that he was 10 feet in between the wings in front of the security shack in between the 4th and 5th wings when the fuselage of the plane flew over the top of him?

3. Do you understand how it is physically impossible to see the side of an aircraft when the fuselage is only about 100 feet directly above you as he describes?

4. Do you understand how a plane directly over the Navy Annex is corroborated by many other witnesses and how this simple fact fatally contradicts all official reports, data, and the physical damage?

5. Do you agree that in 2008 Terry Morin stated he was interviewed by the FBI 3 times but was unable to tell the authorities it was an AA jet because he only saw the belly and that he also cited this explanation as the reason why he misidentified the aircraft as a 737?

I briefly skimmed through the replies of the detractors. What i find so hilarious is that the detractors would much rather get mired down in circular debates than go talk to Morin himself, as did Craig. I wonder why that is....

(well, actually, i dont... we all know why detractors refuse to confront Arlington witnesses and prefer to "debate" online... while also claiming "there is nothing to debate".)

jthomas once claimed he had a trip booked to Arlington. That turned out to be another lie.

There are two more very interesting remarks from Terry Morin in his last lines from the already posted link :

As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon. There was a large explosion noise and the low frequency sound echo that comes with this type of sound. Associated with that was the increase in air pressure, momentarily, like a small gust of wind. For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000lb bomb going off roughly ½ mile in front of you. At once there was a huge cloud of black smoke that rose several hundred feet up. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds.

Pay attention to the frase ""to the Northeast of the FOB"". That's in the direction of the Citgo gas station, and not over the clover leaf roads South to Southwest of the Pentagon, as depicted in the AA77 flight path by all official sources.

I calculated passing time at a specific air speed in this post;
""How many seconds go by, when 1.72 miles are covered with an average speed of 460 knots? "" :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and came up with 11.70 seconds.

In a next post, I came up with 416.4 knots = 479.185 miles per hour is 770.432 km per hour :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and came up with 16 seconds.


How far is it from Terry's position to the Pentagon West wall?

I have looked over Terry Morins statements and interview regarding "seconds" of travel. Even if we include doppler effect (Morin explains 12-18 seconds from the time he heard 'the plane' till the time of 'impact'), Morins' statements are still well below the FDR speed of 460 knots... which now the detractors are claiming was higher than 460 due to 'missing seconds', thereby also accusing the NTSB Flight Path Study, Jim Ritter - Chief of Vehicle Performance, and the 9/11 Commission... wrong. (this is why 'detractors' refuse to debate P4T as they will have to admit the NTSB is wrong).

Since detractors wish to take Morins' statement of "parallel" literally, i wonder how "literally" they take his same statements regarding aircraft type being a 737?

Confusing a 757 for a 737 to a pilot, is like confusing a Ford Truck to a Corvette for the average layman.

Terry is clear in his statements. All detractors are proven to cherry pick and lie.

typo

[edit on 12-1-2009 by RockHound757]

GENRADEK... YOU KEEP SAYING you can SEE the RED STRIPE! bs...
===================
reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 10:58 PM by GenRadek
Morin stated he saw a silver plane with red and white stripes on it parallel to the FOB. From what I can read, there is nothing in Morin's statement about a mysterious white plane. Just a big honking silver with red + white stripes plane flying towards the Pentagon. And from his very account along the FOB. You see, this is exactly why you are getting so much heat for what you guys are claiming.
======================

WHY ARE YOU LYING AND/OR IGNORING WHAT CRAIG STATED? Or are you just selectively cherry picking only what serves your agenda of disinformation and distraction? MORIN ALSO CLARIFIED WHAT HE SAW AND REPEATEDLY MADE IT CLEAR THATS WHAT HE SAW.... not that he THINKS this or that... but that THATS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAW... its not a cloudly memory problem as you'd like everyone to believe.

LETS SEE now EVERYTHING CRAIG HAS STATED ON THAT which you've TOTALLY CONTRADICTED AND CLAIM WAS NEVER STATED....

================
reply posted on 9-1-2009 by Craig Ranke CIT
He specifically says that he could NOT tell it was an AA jet because he had "no side view" of the plane and that it flew "directly over" him.
Notice how in his first written account he does not say that he "saw" the red and blue stripes but merely states that the plane supposedly had them because obviously he believes what he was told about it being an AA jet.
Of course maybe it did have red and blue stripes.
This wouldn't change the fact that if it was directly over the Navy Annex as Terry Morin has always reported it fatally contradicts all official data, reports, and the physical damage proving the plane did not hit the building. Now you are straight lying because he NEVER says that he "saw" the airframe or stripes and he specifically clarified that he did NOT see the airframe or stripes. So while you are forced to put words in his mouth to support your fantasy Terry Morin already clarified this for you by specifically stating otherwise.
That is why first-hand confirmation of witness reports is so important although it's clear that you don't like this type of evidence and prefer unconfirmed and more generalized static claims that are easier to spin rather than specific answers to specific questions first-hand.

Now please stop lying about what he claimed that he saw.

============================


Indeed, PLEASE STOP LYING GENRADEK

i'm curious whether GEN is short for GENERAL RADEK... then things start to make more sense. LOL


Then you go on to say...
========================
reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 07:14 PM by GenRadek
For you and jthomas I found a few pics of an AA 757 flying overhead as close to what the witness could have seen. What do you guys think?
=====================

your LAST PIC of the underbelly view and your claim that it clearly shows the stripes etc, is absolutely ridiculous since its NOT CLEAR (which would be the actual vantage point of morin) not to mention you're claiming you can clearly see the RED STRIPES when its a PERFECTLY STABLE STOPPED FRAME FROM A HIGH RES AND PERFORMANCE CAMERA. MORIN had a split second to see the under belly which couldn't be anymore than a BLUR at best!

Nice try though

MORINS TESTIMONY DESTROYS THE OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY THEORY which YOU, JTHOMAS, ZAPPY, AND CAMERON continue defending and look more and more foolish for doing.

------
So Craig... just wondering if you've seen this doc yet??

video.google.com...
Pandora's Black Box - Chapter Two - Flight Of American 77

would that not put tons of questions to rest? would not the F A C T S being presented in the analysis by actual PILOTS not destroy the official story and flight path? and totally debunk all detractors of CIT?

Looks that way to me. One of the Best illustrations and doc's on this issue IMO.

M-911

Originally posted by LaBTop

Pay attention to the frase ""to the Northeast of the FOB"". That's in the direction of the Citgo gas station, and not over the clover leaf roads South to Southwest of the Pentagon, as depicted in the AA77 flight path by all official sources.

Great catch!

Terry Morin is now officially an ONA and NoC witness!

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
reply to post by GenRadek

 

Why do you keep going off topic?

And why do you keep ignoring the other posts?

In the first account Morin does not say that he SAW the stripes.

In the 2nd account he confirms specifically that he did NOT see the stripes or the side of the plane.

Now pay attention because this is key...

In BOTH accounts he describes the plane DIRECTLY over him which proves he COULD NOT have seen the stripes and also of course that the plane flew directly over the Navy Annex proving it did not hit the Pentagon.

Wouldn't what Morin says also prove that the plane was not in a bank?

Also, Craig...I don't recall seeing your answer to my question:

Did you have Morin draw the flight path on an overhead map of the area as you did with the other eyewitnesses?

reply to post by RockHound757

Confusing a 757 for a 737 to a pilot, is like confusing a Ford Truck to a Corvette for the average layman.

Really???

Then you agree that a 757 hit the Pentagon, correct? The C-130 pilot identified the aircraft as a 757.

Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by RockHound757

 

Confusing a 757 for a 737 to a pilot, is like confusing a Ford Truck to a Corvette for the average layman.

Really???

Then you agree that a 757 hit the Pentagon, correct? The C-130 pilot identified the aircraft as a 757.

A little off topic isn't it? Seeing as this topic is not about the C-130 pilot and neither he nor Terry claim to have seen an impact. Since Terry Morin places the air craft over the Navy Annex, it couldn't possibly impacted the Pentagon, so it would be irresponsible for Craig to agree that a 757 hit the Pentagon.

reply to post by Boone 870


But the C-130 pilot did not see it hit the pentagon.

In fact he admitted that he was so far away that when he saw the explosion he couldn't even tell if it was coming from the Pentagon!

C-130 Pilot Lt. Col. Steve O'Brien:

" When I saw the initial explosion I was not able to see exactly where or what it had impacted, but remember trying to approximate a position to give to ATC. "

Of course the Pentagon is massive compared to a relatively minuscule passenger jet that would obviously not be visible at all.

Plus Morin has a good excuse for not identifying it properly.

He barely saw it as it passed directly over him while he was between the wings.

Oh, and did we mention how this is fatal to all official reports, data, and the physical damage proving the plane didn't hit the building?

reply to post by LaBTop


NO. He was outside the gap 10 steps away, not in between them. Do you understand what that means being out 10 steps? It means he was already outside the space. Do we have to draw this out for you to see it?

“Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual.”

frustratingfraud.blogspot.com...

Ahh much better. As some of you are having a hard time visualizing this, here it is. Now then, do we have to devolve to a Sesame Street break down of what each word means? I sure hope not because this is getting downright rediculus that some people cannot understand certain words. Between means in between the wings. OUT FROM between means he is no longer in between the two wings but out from between them.

Now then if Craig or you or anyone else tries to imply that what he said is entirely different then you are being completely dishonest and engaged in intentional disinformation. Twisting words is easy and the CT camp is an expert in this. Once again folks, reading comprehension 101. There is a difference between saying "In between" and "out from between". IF you try and deny this, then you truely are disinfo agents in the purest sense.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


Do you agree that since Terry saw the underbelly of the plane, the plane was NOT in a banking turn, nor would it have been physically possible to make any sudden sharp turns prior to impact? If it was banking at any angle the stripes would have been visible. After all this is what it all hinges on. It didn't do any banking turns prior to impact which means it went straight in. Also this means in the short distance to the Pentagon there was NO way it could have made any banking turns or wingtip turns prior to impact. So once again without you realizing it, Terry shoots down your theory again. Every witness never mentions any crazy high speed turns prior to impact it was all straight in. So no way it could have gone NoC either then. lol! wow! Your own witness sinking your theory.

Originally posted by adam_zapple

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
reply to post by GenRadek

 

Why do you keep going off topic?

And why do you keep ignoring the other posts?

In the first account Morin does not say that he SAW the stripes.

In the 2nd account he confirms specifically that he did NOT see the stripes or the side of the plane.

Now pay attention because this is key...

In BOTH accounts he describes the plane DIRECTLY over him which proves he COULD NOT have seen the stripes and also of course that the plane flew directly over the Navy Annex proving it did not hit the Pentagon.

Wouldn't what Morin says also prove that the plane was not in a bank?

Bump for craig.