Debunking the 'Fake Jew' AKA The 'Khazarian Jew' Myth.

reply to post by AshleyD


Many debates here are based on misinformation. For example in support of the argument of universalism, the statement is made that Ruth was not an Israelitess. in fact the source for knowledge about Ruth is the Bible which quite clearly states that she was an Israelitess from the Plains of Moab which were part of the territories selected tribes had occupied across the Jordan and which had been completely emptied of their original inhabitants for centuries.
Such misleading issues are employed to build a case based on deception aimed at influencing a modern day power bloc holding to cherished religious beliefs. By this technology, uninformed minds are swayed into accepting that the current political scenario must be what God has ordained and therefore resources must be diverted to sustain it, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Further concerning Israel, a careful reading of the source documents will show the following:

There were 13 tribes not 12 (Joseph = 2)
12 tribes held land titles (regional territories)
1 tribe (Levi) did not have land inheritance rights but was funded out of regional treasury to perform religious and civil administration duties.

The 12 formed a "Union" and elected a leader to set up a central administration based on the model of the nations which surrounded them. The tribe from which their earliest dominant leader (David) came eventally gained the ascendancy and defaulted to being their "royal" family in a "kingdom" structure incorporating all 12 tribal territories.
The "royal family" gradually became an oppressive ruling ogligarchy.
This caused civil unrest and finally lead to a confrontation between the 11 regions and their centralised rulers.

Following a breakdown of negotiations over taxation issues, the 11 withdrew from the "kingdom" to form a new republic in the north.
They appointed an ex-guerilla leader as their first president and in due time under several successive Presidents (kings) changed their laws, religion and customs to complete their separation from the southern kingdom and all it represented.
The Bible records their separate development through time listing their rulers parallel with the southern nation up until their captivity and exile by the regional empire.
In the Bible, the new Republic is called by translators as "Israel", sometimes ,the "House of Israel" and following their later capture and permanent exile by Assyria, as "The lost sheep of the House of Israel".
They themselves did not call themselves by any reference to the name "Israel" and ancient historical documents from that period reveal their actual common name was known to the countries which surrounded them as something quite unrelated to anything biblical. They had completely lost their sense of historical identity and went into exile as "gentiles".

The city of Jerusalem belonged to one of the 11 (Benjamin).
Benjamin was recovering from near decimation and through trade, was closely aligned almost to the point of being assimilated with southern neighbor Judah who maintained the shadow "royal family" residence in Jerusalem. Judah has become associated with ownership of Jerusalem although those same scriptures which are claimed to justify the present occupation also specifically deny their right to it. Another inconvenient truth.

The source documents state that Benjamin was "loaned" to Judah so Judah could retain the illusion of rulership function and because of the significance of Jerusalem as the appointed capital of the "kingdom" against future signficant events.
This arrangement with Benjamin was further stated to be a short term arrangement until such time as the Appointed Ruler would appear in history from Judah. At this time Benjamin was to take his place with his brethren of the "lost sheep of the House of Israel" as the Christ called them. From that time Judah was no longer to be a ruling elite but one of the tribes. Many have "wailed" because of the perception that the kingdom was lost to them but for them Shiloh had not come.
The new contract is foreshadowed in Jer 31:31-33 where it is extended to the House of Israel but carefully excludes the House of Judah for a time until the "House of David" are again isolated and are able to consider the work of their hands (Zech 12:10), an event which clearly has not happened yet.

Rev 2:9 and 3:9. The scripture typifies the present world political situation as the climax of the conflict between Esau and Jacob. Esau as part of Edom meaning the whole alien banking/political NWO conspiracy scenario designed to impose world government on an unsuspecting and careless Jacob to return this planet to a world state which once existed. Being achieved through deception, fraud and treachery where Esau masquerades as Jacob where it suits his purposes.
Within this analogy it is of interest to consider Ezekiel 35 and 36 which acknowledges that Esau has gained control over the high places meaning the government institutions/banks of the world power. Esau believes nothing can now stop him and note he intends to take control of the two nations of Israel (vs 35:10) because they are the key to his success.

Unfortunately, All-Israel's numbers were prophesied on the exodus from Egypt to increase 1000 times which makes them about 600M men at this time or about 2B total support population worldwide. After the wars to come in which the NWO is defeated, only a remnant of "Israel" survive of sufficiently small numbers to be able to return to their original lands. (Ez 37:22)

The DNA tests are inconclusive because at best they only establish descent from a common origin which is "claimed" to have been a particular identity and at worst for every test there are two opposing interpretations. What they also showed which is not recorded here is common origins which were an embarrassment to the present political situation. For this reason a new way of interpreting the results had to be invented.

Personally I have no idea how the clock works but I am quite certain it will strike the correct hour to show that everything was always under control for when the time comes.

Is it assumed here that there is no debate over whether DNA can determine race? (Google: “DNA can (or cannot) determine race”)

Setting aside whether Ashkenazi Jews are genuinely Semitic or not, I wonder why the term “anti-Semitic” refers to discrimination against Jews only.

Are Palestinians not also Semitic?

What should discrimination against Palestinians be called? Pro-Semitism?

Why are people arguing over the "type of people." We are all simply people. Anyone who contributes otherwise in my opinion simply cannot outgrow the concept of race.

Originally posted by dantrav
Why are people arguing over the "type of people." We are all simply people. Anyone who contributes otherwise in my opinion simply cannot outgrow the concept of race.

All these conspiracy debates boil down to a grass roots belief that an alien entity has embedded itself within humanity and is responsible for all the bad stuff which is happening as they move to consolidate their control of this world to convert it to their own purposes. Most cultures have traditions which ascribe to this belief. The bible in particular is quite specific concerning it.

The distinction between legitimate humanity and cloned humans after thousands of years of assimilation is impossible to say. Does it even matter? Possibly. The christian tradition states that the cloned humans are programmed through their natures to carry out a long term plan to convert this world and destroy all humanity. The bible deals with this subject in terms of "wheat and tares" among many warnings to resist the inhumanity among us. To lull the people into a non-watchful state, Taric religion of the unthinking masses persuades the wheat that tares are potential wheat and that all wheat are themselves "converted" tares and that therefore wheat and tares are the same thing in universal brotherhood.

The reversal of identities is the common teaching of the mystery religions for example at the 33rd level of Scottish Rite freemasonry and all those embracing "cults" it has spawned eg Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness-ism among many.

In fact, all contemporary western religion has a common origin and the many flavors are merely tributaries of an original root which nevertheless remains that stream which sustains them in even their self-deceptions as it spans history all the way back to that mystical Babylon which in turn defines that original illegal alien intrusion into to the world of legitimate humanity.

Should we try to identify inhumanity by race or creed?

In his July 2008 political video, David Icke makes reference to a meeting of the European Round table where they discussed how many humans would be needed on the planet to serve their purposes in the new order they intend to implement. One suggested they did not need humanity but the concensus was that 500,000 humans would be an ideal number and that measures should be implemented to reduce the current numbers. Who are these people who dare to have such discussions with such disdain and unconcern for humanity? Where do they individually position themselves in the religious, racial and political spectrum of our world?.
If we knew, should we define all members of their orientation as co-conspirators in the manner that Iranians are taught to identify all Americans as "the great satan" because of the actions of the few in power?

Insofar as it is believed there has been a unique power existing down through history of a single mind in conflict with the designated conception of this world then it may be seen to have embedded itself within the significant institutions of each period in our history including influencing empires, peoples and races for its own purposes. None of these are of themselves inherently the thing which they hosted at times in their past just as we today host that same inhumanity whose "fruit" is revealed as our treatment of those who committed no crime against us.

For this reason, I believe it is a mistake to label Khazar, Jew, or American Christians as an evil race lest we all be labeled similarly by those we have tresspassed against.

With watchfulness we are well able to resist the inhumanity as it appears among us in our daily lives although often it is hard to do what is right. There is a mechanism already in place to deal with the tares by way of final solution to remove the evil that afflicts us but this will not be by human agency. (Matt 13:37-43)

Originally posted by dantrav
Why are people arguing over the "type of people." We are all simply people. Anyone who contributes otherwise in my opinion simply cannot outgrow the concept of race.

All these conspiracy debates boil down to a grass roots belief that an alien entity has embedded itself within humanity and is responsible for all the bad stuff which is happening as they move to consolidate their control of this world to convert it to their own purposes. Most cultures have traditions which ascribe to this belief. The bible in particular is quite specific concerning it.

The distinction between legitimate humanity and cloned humans after thousands of years of assimilation is impossible to say. Does it even matter? Possibly. The christian tradition states that the cloned humans are programmed through their natures to carry out a long term plan to convert this world and destroy all humanity. The bible deals with this subject in terms of "wheat and tares" among many warnings to resist the inhumanity among us. To lull the people into a non-watchful state, Taric religion of the unthinking masses persuades the wheat that tares are potential wheat and that all wheat are themselves "converted" tares and that therefore wheat and tares are the same thing in universal brotherhood.

The reversal of identities is the common teaching of the mystery religions for example at the 33rd level of Scottish Rite freemasonry and all those embracing "cults" it has spawned eg Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness-ism among many.

In fact, all contemporary western religion has a common origin and the many flavors are merely tributaries of an original root which nevertheless remains that stream which sustains them in even their self-deceptions as it spans history all the way back to that mystical Babylon which in turn defines that original illegal alien intrusion into to the world of legitimate humanity.

Should we try to identify inhumanity by race or creed?

In his July 2008 political video, David Icke makes reference to a meeting of the European Round table where they discussed how many humans would be needed on the planet to serve their purposes in the new order they intend to implement. One suggested they did not need humanity but the concensus was that 500,000 humans would be an ideal number and that measures should be implemented to reduce the current numbers. Who are these people who dare to have such discussions with such disdain and unconcern for humanity? Where do they individually position themselves in the religious, racial and political spectrum of our world?.
If we knew, should we define all members of their orientation as co-conspirators in the manner that Iranians are taught to identify all Americans as "the great satan" because of the actions of the few in power?

Insofar as it is believed there has been a unique power existing down through history of a single mind in conflict with the designated conception of this world then it may be seen to have embedded itself within the significant institutions of each period in our history including influencing empires, peoples and races for its own purposes. None of these are of themselves inherently the thing which they hosted at times in their past just as we today host that same inhumanity whose "fruit" is revealed as our treatment of those who committed no crime against us.

For this reason, I believe it is a mistake to label Khazar, Jew, or American Christians as an evil race lest we all be labeled similarly by those we have tresspassed against.

With watchfulness we are well able to resist the inhumanity as it appears among us in our daily lives although often it is hard to do what is right. There is a mechanism already in place to deal with the tares by way of final solution to remove the evil that afflicts us but this will not be by human agency. (Matt 13:37-43)

reply to post by Ji_Ranz


What in the world are you talking about? Programmed cloned humans? Illegal alien intrusions? Inhumanity?

Why would anything go to such a ridiculously complex length when the human race could be easily culled with Grey Goo?

Why wait until the planet is burgeoning with over 6 billion humans, when it would of been easier when they were still in the millions, e.g. 1000 years ago?

What would be the objective of such a impractical and unnecessary plan?

What does any of that have to do with the Jews?

By the way, Ruth was Moabite,

Here's what we know about her. She was a granddaughter of Eglon, king of Moab, who himself was a grandson of Balak, king of Moab during Moses' times.1 Ironically, both these kings had hostile relations with the Israelites: Balak retained the anti-Semitic sorcerer Balaam to curse the Israelites (as recorded in Numbers 22-24); Eglon allied with the Ammonites and Amalekites and occupied Israel for eighteen years until he was slain by the Israeli leader Ehud (Judges 3).

What was Ruth's ancestry?
www.chabad.org...

reply to post by dantrav


We must argue who is jew because we can not take sides in a family dispute without knowing all the facts of why you got your head chopped off. I don't like people who are far removed from jews saying that whom ever is jew is right. They take their side only because they are jew not because of the truth or facts.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


The timing of events relates to the end of an "age". There are many pointers to this being a critical time in history...the end of the "great cycle" and other events.

The "jews" are significant as they are the catalyst which sets the cataclysm in motion.

Current world events and the positioning of the worlds superpower relate to scripture concerning the jews right to the land and escalating conflicts aimed at maintaining them there.

If Ruth is a Moabitess then the entire fabric of the conviction that the jews have a right to be there and all the world events concerning this conviction are overturned.

The website you point to represents at best an opinion but not based on those scriptures which are used to justify the current world events scenario. It assumes reader familiarity with another extra-scriptural tradition hence the opening reference to Ruth "converting" to judaism which is a clear chronological impossibility to the person who accepts the scriptural timeline.

Here is a link to the biblical Ruth .

How to explain such high concentration of Jews in Muscovite Tsardom/Russian Empire and Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth?

Anyway:
Why Judaism is not a Race
www.sullivan-county.com...

Who are the Khazars?
www.sullivan-county.com...

Originally posted by AshleyD
2). One cannot say Yiddish is 'not related to Biblical Hebrew' when they both use Hebrew characters. That's a pretty big relation.

No, it's not. Yiddish is Germanic language.
Characters doesn't matter.

Bigwhammy

There are so many spurious attempts to attack the Jewish people and their right to their homeland

Ever heard of the old saying, your land is my land - my land is your land???

I would like everyone to know that the DNA Research here does not mean that because ashkenazis have a certain dna strain that makes them jewish. a long time ago countries and empires were claimed by sword, rape, incest and marrying other races. there is no proof that jews migrated anywhere- other than to middle eastern countries. the jews specifically cannot claim palestine or canaan. the hebrews were actually the hyksos, that were a combination of black and middle eastern. they were expelled from egypt for lying to become pharoahs. they left egypt and went to canaan and pushed the original people of canaan/philestines into syria. being a jew is not a race, it is a religion, and so that is why american jews run around saying their jewish, when in reality they only practice the religion, they are not of the descent. sorry to burst everyones bubble on the whole thing, but im half ashkenazi, and after learning about this. i accepted it. sorry its a religion now-a-days not a race or lost tribes. they are just occupiers and blood fiends from the days of magic. open your eyes to this reality because not believing it only keeps your mind suppressed and keeps you ignorant from true reality, its time to get your heads out of the subliminal mind control tv, magazines and media. really go look this # up. oh and who actually did the dna tests- i think alot of the research was done in israel. hmm sounds a little to biased for my taste. don't you agree?

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I lived 61 years thinking I was born of Irish and Italian parents. Then I was told that I was adopted and the state of Illinois said that my adoption was sealed. My paternal dna test said my birth father was (E1b1b1c1) a Jew. I have read recently that if my only claim to being a jew is my dna, that I don't have a "right of return" to Israel. If I am a jew by blood why is this so? What do I do with this?

This is a Ground Breaking interview from The Info Underground with 6th term Congresswoman Cynthia Mckinney...

Quote:

Zionist Jewish 99% Control of Washington DC

- in her own words!

INTERVIEW:
Cynthia McKinney Interview - 30th April 2009


Please listen and spread about

Ashley, I commend your attempt to address something that keeps flying into an argument, with the purpose of clouding the issues of the moment.

I admire your patience.

You've stated clearly and concisely the logic, the historical documentation, the evidence, and the context.

Mine is a more visceral approach, as you well know.

Regardless of whether one wishes to believe any of the Bible, specifically what we in the Christian world call the Old Testament, one finds in that Old Testament a number of promises God made to his people.

Sometimes good promises, and at other times when he was displeased, bad promises.

One thing any student of the Old Testament can say with certainty, is that the God of the Old Testament was not slack in his promises.

If He makes a promise, you can take it to the bank, regardless of what the surrounding events indicate.

We can see in many texts, His promise to gather His people from all nations, to be gathered once again into one nation, and never again to be scattered.

Considering the past two millennia, statistically, this would seem nearly impossible. Yet the very thing God promised near the end times, has come true.

Every effort to dislodge the people of Israel, every attack by every coalition to kill them, against all odds, had been defeated with spectacular results. They were to be reviled among nations. I'd say that too is accurate.

I care not where they came from, who they associated with while scattered, nor who they made friends with while they were scattered, as also promised.

The nation of Israel is a reality. Against all odds.

It has survived. Against all odds.

Rather than argue nuances, it for me is enough that they are now in their own nation, regardless of where they came from.

And I trust that the God who made the promise to once again gather them, also had the foresight to gather His own.

Considering the remaining promises yet to be fulfilled, I would be one scared puppy to be one of those who would contend against this new nation.

But for those who can read but not understand, or those who can look but not see, let's just wait it out and we'll see if He is slack in keeping His promises.

And it doesn't look like it will be a whole lot longer we'll have to be looking.

Thank you, Ashley.

I guess that make me a Christian Zionist.

Whatever. I've been called a lot worse than that!

the OP was not just about whether or not ashekenazi jews are khazar converts.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Introduction

Current events dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have created a significant increase in ATS threads discussing various aspects of the long-running issue. Due to this, possibly a dozen times in the last two days alone I've noticed accusations that today's Jews (American, European, and Israeli) are not 'real Jews' but are instead descendants of Khazarian Jewish converts. This claim is typically offered as a reason why Jews currently inhabiting the state of Israel have no legitimate ancestral claim to the land. My intent with this thread is to debunk such an accusation.

this wording implies that even if all jews were 'real jews' then they would have a claim to have gone and claimed and held the land.

stealing of land, whether for religious or ancestral reasons, is plain wrong.

debate the khazarian conversions and origins of people.. that's a good thing.. but the wording is generalistic.. some people, like you said about koestler, have different reasons for saying ashekenazis are khazarian BESIDES disputing a claim to go make israel.

also, this issue is by no means the only, nor the major reason for saying the people of israel don't have a right to steal the land for their own.

your introduction shows more than just frustration over the generalistic claim that ashekenazi jews are khazarian. it shows frustration over modern israel and criticism of it. you bring it up in the third topic.

The Conspiracy Begins

The theory is now very popular with various anti-semitic and anti-Zionist organizations and is mostly used to negate Israel's purpose of existence.

the purpose of existence isn't clear. it could be argued that the purpose of existence is a conspiracy too. a rothschild-league of nations-world zionist organization conspiracy. most jews in 1917 weren't a part of it, let alone voted or had a say in it. whether they were 'fake jews' or 'real jews'.

and then there are many who do say ashekenazis are from khazaria but DO NOT say they aren't real jews. just a different type of jew. they would agree with you that converts can be jews, just interested in where they came from.

it could be argued there are no real jews too.
that there is no judea anymore. so how could there be judeans.

Conclusion

In light of all evidence, most scholars and historians have rejected or abandoned the conspiracy theory altogether. The remaining proponents of the theory generally consist of various groups and organizations seeking to undermine Israel's sovereignty, its citizens right to the land, and to propagate anti-semitic information.

You'll often find this information still being presented without any actual facts to back it up on anti-semitic websites like Stormfront, Jew Watch, etc.

The fact remains, this claim simply is not factual and all evidence points to this conspiracy theory being false.

perhaps israel's sovereignty should be questioned. that seems to be your main gripe. that if these 'nazi white supremacists' would just be shown that not all ashekenazis are from khazaria then everything would be ok and noone would have a problem with israel's existence.

i and many others have already read the dna articles and know we cannot know everything about the past.. especially has history is written by winners as they say, and anything can be written.. scientific or otherwise.. to prove an argument.
we're not stormfronters or jew-haters.. we're truthseekers.. and a lot of us are more caring than religious people.

but anyway, i appreciate dispelling myths and showing that people should research before claiming to know something.
i will go along with you and agree that even converts are real jews and not all ashenazis are khazarian.

but i will still say israel is not justified. it was jews stealing land.

no matter how much work is put in to try and prove that stealing the land is justified.

Thanks for taking the time to make this thread, looks like you put a lot of work into it.
However, this is in no way debunking that most "jews" are converts. What you didnt take into consideration is information that has been and still to this day is deliberately suppressed from the people. But thanks to decades of vigorous research by acclaimed researchers this suppressed information is coming more and more into light. People have put their lives on the line to make sure their discoveries are available to everyone, I dont think your thread qualifies as debunking anything. E for effort tho.

In general on this subject, I personally have nothing against any person speaking their mind. In fact, I do think the more, the merrier. But if ATS is ever subverted like has been rense.com, to become a haven for some of the most wretched, anti-semitic and pro-fascist propaganda on the planet, I'll move on from here just as I did when I ceased visiting the rense website.

There is a difference between a person expressing a viewpoint and having an entire movement claim squatters' rights to the bandwidth.

Peace __/|\__

reply to post by dantrav


Hi dantra/

This is eactly right!
Yes,we are all people and all human with flesh and blood, but some people choose to believe they are the chosen ones, this is not so.
So much blood shed of innocents and for what?

The Truth will come out,it always does!( as some have already said)
Also know that books have gone missing, have Deliberately been BURNT or taken away by the same people who dont want you to know the truth....

A member mentioned 13th tribe?
Yes, I have read a little on it, a very interesting read.
International Jew Abridged from the original as published by the world renowned industrial leader,

and another

And More~

And an article of Rense...The 'God' that serves Elite Jews

Well done Ashley, great article .....more posts like this are needed so that more people can research their own and not believe everything that is fed to them.

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by Rumpelstiltskin
Is it assumed here that there is no debate over whether DNA can determine race? (Google: “DNA can (or cannot) determine race”)

Setting aside whether Ashkenazi Jews are genuinely Semitic or not, I wonder why the term “anti-Semitic” refers to discrimination against Jews only.

Are Palestinians not also Semitic?

What should discrimination against Palestinians be called? Pro-Semitism?

Hi Rumple/
Exactly!
Anti-semetic should be non discriminatory!
I read that Palastenians are also of Semetic blood?

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
i thought being jewish was not a nationality but a religion?
does this mean only jewish people that have jewish blood have rights to israel? continuing this debate with more racial propoganda is just as racist as the khazarians are fake jews arguement.

The whole bloodlines thing is alluded to hear, and the real issue
some ppl have are with the families that intermarried with the
Egyptians and then left Israel to become the vikings.

Some called them the Hyksos, and supposed their were 6 kinds,
and in roman numerals VI kings = vikings.

The tribe of dan, became the mark of dan, became denmark.

Empire of the City - The Ring of Power - pt 1

I do not know if this is true, but it makes for a interesting story.