I used to think that aliens just existed in movie land.

That's the power that Hollywood has over people.

Dr. Edgar Mitchell, myself, and others know that aliens do exist. Do you?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


At one time, druids use to gather the wood from holly tree to make staves, wands and other occult items.
The wood from a holly tree holds sertin powers.. Or is said too.
Hollywood.
And today hollywood is still work their magic..

Most these people took ideas from conspiracy theories and made movies about those ideas.

I know they are real. I know we are not alone in this universe.
I know we are not alone in this solar system, let alone the whole universe.
We dont even know what a universe truely is.. Let alone be bold enough to say we are the only ones here.
Wheres the proof you might ask?
Look in the mirror.. We are the proof!!!!

I have question for you. I do believe there is something going on, and we have to keep the Alien thing open. But I want to ask about defending rationality.

Let me offer a few examples:

leprechauns, Mermaids etc.

In the case of Mermaids, they have been reported worldwide for thousands of years. Leprechauns have been seen by a large number of people over the years.

Should we believe in Mermaids? IF not, why would you think Aliens would be different? If we should believe in Mermaids, what does that say about rationality? There is no real proof for Mermaids other then people reporting such.

I am not saying people aren't being abducted, but I am saying that one should try and keep a balanced approach lest we fall for believing in anything that people report.

Originally posted by talisman
I am not saying people aren't being abducted, but I am saying that one should try and keep a balanced approach lest we fall for believing in anything that people report.

You are very right.. And allow me to share this with you here.

The Dragon In My Garage
by
Carl Sagan
"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"
Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floates in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

The only thing you've really learned from my insistence that there's a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head. You'd wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me. The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind. But then, why am I taking it so seriously? Maybe I need help. At the least, maybe I've seriously underestimated human fallibility.

Imagine that, despite none of the tests being successful, you wish to be scrupulously open-minded. So you don't outright reject the notion that there's a fire-breathing dragon in my garage. You merely put it on hold. Present evidence is strongly against it, but if a new body of data emerge you're prepared to examine it and see if it convinces you. Surely it's unfair of me to be offended at not being believed; or to criticize you for being stodgy and unimaginative-- merely because you rendered the Scottish verdict of "not proved."

Imagine that things had gone otherwise. The dragon is invisible, all right, but footprints are being made in the flour as you watch. Your infrared detector reads off-scale. The spray paint reveals a jagged crest bobbing in the air before you. No matter how skeptical you might have been about the existence of dragons--to say nothing about invisible ones--you must now acknowledge that there's something here, and that in a preliminary way it's consistent with an invisible, fire-breathing dragon.

Now another scenario: Suppose it's not just me. Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you're pretty sure don't know each other, all tell you that they have dragons in their garages--but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive. All of us admit we're disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence. None of us is a lunatic. We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on. I'd rather it not be true, I tell you. But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren't myths at all.

Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported. But they're never made when a skeptic is looking. An alternative explanation presents itself. On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked. Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon's fiery breath. But again, other possibilities exist. We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons. Such "evidence"--no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it--is far from compelling. Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.

We should all consider this when dealing with ideas that are hard to understand, and hard to prove.

reply to post by zysin5



That pretty well says it all. Thanks for the "The Dragon In My Garage".

It would seem that special effects has been going on for thousands of years. So, hollywood is the generic anti-christ and false prophet in that repect. Extraterrestrials etc. apparently also like to use special effects. Maybe it's all an illusion and the aliens are actually time traveling Nazis?