Bible End Time is Islam

Part 1 of 5
Rev 13 witnesses the emergence of two beasts. The first is the Beast who is referenced throughout all the Biblical Prophecies. Christians call him Antichrist. I dont know what title Jews give him. The second beast is a subordinate of the first beast. He assists in the effort of the first beast to compell all to worship him and the dragon.

What i'm going to do is give the bible verses. In the verses I'm going to identify the attributes of each Beast. and then compare those attributes to what the Muslims believe about the Mahdi, and the person who assits the Mahdi

The First Beast: Antichrist:

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority… Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?”

[Attribute 1 - Mankind is so cowered by the use of the force by the beast, that they begin to worship the dragon, the god who the beast is the agent of. They also worship the beast himself because his power is so great]
The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.

[Attribute 2 - The beast hates the God of Israel and everything and everyone that is associated with God. He will specifically seek to destroy all who worship the God of Isreal] And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

[ Attribute 3 - Soverignity will transfer from the nations to him , via the use of force] All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast–all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. Revelation 13:2,4-8

What in the world today is capable in resulting in a leader possessing the three attributes I highlighted? The Islamic Mahdi.

[Attribute 1 - Mankind is so cowered by the use of the force by the beast, that they begin to worship the dragon, the god who the beast is the agent of. They also worship the beast himself because his power is so great]

Islamic Teaching: “The [Iranians] President’s chief strategist, Hassan Abbassi, has come up with a war plan based on the premise that “Britain is the mother of all evils” – the evils being America, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, the Gulf states and even Canada, all of whom are the malign progeny of the British Empire. “We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization,” says Mr Abbassi. “There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them… Once we have defeated the Anglo-Saxons the rest will run for cover.””

Islamic Teachig “He [Mahdi] is the precursor of the victory of the Truth and the fall of all tyrants. He heralds the end of injustice and oppression and the beginning of the final rising of the sun of Islam which will never again set and which will ensure happiness and the elevation of mankind… The Mahdi is one of Allah’s clear signs which will soon be made
evident to everyone”



[edit on 1-1-2009 by VinceP1974]

continued:
Part 2 of 5


Islamic Teaching: “He [Mahdi] will reappear on the appointed day, and then he will fight against the forces of evil, lead a world revolution and set up a new world order based on justice, righteousness and virtue…ultimately the righteous will take the world administration in their hands and Islam will be victorious over all the religions”

Islamic Teaching: “The Mahdi will invade all the places between East and West”

Christians see the Antichrist as being the person described here:

Revelation 6:1 I looked on when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a thunderous voice, “Come!” So I looked, and here came a white horse! The one who rode it had a bow, and he was given a crown, and as a conqueror he rode out to conquer.

The rider is the first beast in Rev 13.

Muslims believe that Rev 6:1 is talking about their Mahdi

Islamic teaching: “I find the Mahdi recorded in the books of the Prophets… For instance, the Book of Revelation says: “And I saw and behold a white horse. He that sat on him…went forth conquering and to conquer”

Islamic teaching: “It is clear that this man is the Mahdi who will ride the white horse and judge by the Qur’an (with justice) and with whom will be men with marks of prostration on their foreheads [Marks on their foreheads from bowing in prayer with their head to the ground five times daily].”

[Attribute 2 - The beast hates the God of Israel and everything and everyone that is associated with God. He will specifically seek to destroy all who worship the God of Isreal]
Islamic teaching: “The Mahdi will offer the religion of Islam to the Jews and Christians; if they accept it they will be spared, otherwise they will be killed”

Islamic teaching: “The Mahdi will be victorious and eradicate those pigs and dogs and the idols of this time so that there will once more be a caliphate based on prophethood as the hadith states… Jerusalem will be the location of the rightly guided caliphate and the center of Islamic rule, which will be headed by Imam al-Mahdi… That will abolish the leadership of the Jews… and put an end to the domination of the Satans who spit evil into people and cause corruption in the earth, making them slaves of false idols and ruling the world by laws other than the Shari’a [Islamic Law] of the Lord of the worlds”

[ Attribute 3 - Soverignity will transfer from the nations to him , via the use of force]

Islamic teaching: “(Armies carrying) black flags will come from Khurasan (Iran). No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Eela (Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem) where they will erect their flags.”

Islamic teaching: “Jerusalem will be the location of the rightly guided caliphate and the center of Islamic rule, which will be headed by Imam al- Mahdi”

Islamic teaching: “al-Mahdi will receive a pledge of allegiance as a caliph for Muslims. He will lead Muslims in many battles of jihad. His reign will be a caliphate that follows the guidance of the Prophet. Many battles will ensue between Muslims and the disbelievers during the Mahdi’s reign”

- more -


[edit on 1-1-2009 by VinceP1974]

Part 3 of 5


The Second Beast: The False Prophet

Revelation 13:11 Then I saw another beast coming up from the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but was speaking like a dragon.

[1 - He has the physical appearance of a Lamb but everything he says in in service to the dragon.. the god who the two beasts are the agents of]

He exercised all the ruling authority of the first beast on his behalf

[2 - He has full authority of the First Beast, but is clearly subordinate to the First Beast]

, and made the earth and those who inhabit it worship the first beast

[3 - He assists in implementing worship of the Beast]

, the one whose lethal wound had been healed. He performed momentous signs, even making fire come down from heaven in front of people and, by the signs he was permitted to perform on behalf of the beast, he deceived those who live on the earth.

[4 - He had visibly supernatural powers. These powers cause people to worship the Beast]

He told those who live on the earth to make an image to the beast who had been wounded by the sword, but still lived. The second beast was empowered to give life to the image of the first beast so that it could speak, and could cause all those who did not worship the image of the beast to be killed. [Note: This passage is not clear to us what it really means.. what is the image?] He also caused everyone (small and great, rich and poor, free and slave) to obtain a mark on their right hand or on their forehead.

[5 - The people the Beasts conquer and convert have a spiritual and physical badge indicating their allegiance to the beast. All others will be killed]

Thus no one was allowed to buy or sell things unless he bore the mark of the beast – that is, his name or his number. This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the beast’s number, for it is man’s number, and his number is 666.

[6 - The physical badge will have markings that have direct reference to 666]

1 - He has the physical appearance of a Lamb but everything he says in in service to the dragon.. the god who the two beasts are the agents of
Christians believe that Jesus is the metaphysical Passover Lamb of God. Muslims claim Jesus as one of their prophets. I’ll call him Isa from now on, as that’s the name they use.

Islamic Teaching: “At this very time Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it”

Islamic Teaching: “Isa(peace be upon him) will come and will perform the obligatory prayers behind the Mahdi and follow him”

Islamic Teaching “The Prophet said: Verily Isa ibn Maryam shall descend as an equitable judge and fair ruler. He shall tread his path on the way to hajj (pilgrimage) and come to my grave to greet me, and I shall certainly answer him! ”

Islamic Teaching “[AFP News Report] Ahmadinejad also again expressed his apocalyptic vision that tyranny in the world be abolished by the return to earth of the Mahdi, the 12th imam of Shiite Islam, alongside great religious figures including Isa. With the appearance of the promised saviour… and his companions such as Isa, tyranny will be soon be eradicated in the world.”



[edit on 1-1-2009 by VinceP1974]

Part 4 of 5

2 - He has full authority of the First Beast, but is clearly subordinate to the First Beast
Islamic Teaching: “The Messenger of Allah said: A section of my people will not cease fighting for the truth and will prevail until the Day of resurrection. He said: Isa son of Mary would then descend and their [Muslims’] commander [the Mahdi] would invite him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say: No, some amongst you are commanders over some”

Islamic Teaching: “Isa will decline the offer and invitation of Imam Mahdi to come and lead the Muslims in prayer, and say his prayer behind Imam Mahdi.”

Islamic Teaching: “Isa (peace be upon him) will come and will perform the obligatory prayers behind the Mahdi and follow him.”

Islamic Teaching: “(Isa) will be following the Mahdi, the master of the time, and that is why he will be offering his prayers behind him.”

Islamic Teaching: “Ibn Qayyim mentioned in Manar al-munif that the leader… is the Mahdi who will request Isa to lead the Muslims in prayer. Isa will remain on the earth, not as a prophet, but as one of the Community (ummah) of Prophet Muhammad. Muslims will follow him as their leader. According to Shalabi, the Mahdi will lead the Muslims in prayer, and Isa will rule the Muslims according to the Divine Law (Shari’ah). 8 ”

Islamic Teaching: “Isa, the son of Mary will descend and will lead them judging amongst them according to the holy Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad”

3 - He assists in implementing worship of the Beast
Islamic Teaching: “…confirm that he is alive and has not died and he is not God or the Son of God but (merely) His (Allah’s) slave and Messenger, and Isa (Jesus) will testify against those who had called him son of God, the Christians, and those who had belied him, the Jews. ”

Islamic Teaching: “Like all prophets, Prophet Isa came with the divine message of surrender to God Almighty, which is Islam. This verse shows that when Isa returns he will personally correct the misrepresentations and misinterpretations about himself. He will affirm the true message that he brought in his time as a prophet, and that he never claimed to be the Son of God. Furthermore, he will reaffirm in his second coming what he prophesied in his first coming bearing witness to the seal of the Messengers, Prophet Muhammad. In his second coming many non-Muslims will accept Isa as a servant of Allah Almighty, as a Muslim and a member of the Community of Muhammad”

Islamic Teaching: “Isa will descend from heaven and espouse the cause of the Mahdi. The Christians and the Jews will see him and recognize his true status. The Christians will abandon their faith in his godhead (sic). ”

4 - He had visibly supernatural powers. These powers cause people to worship the Beast

Muslims certainly believe Isa will have such capability, thought I wasn’t able to find anything in writing that explicitly says so.

5 - The people the Beasts conquer and convert have a spiritual and physical badge indicating their allegiance to the beast. All others will be killed
Islamic teaching: “When Isa returns he will personally correct the misrepresentations and misinterpretations about himself. He will affirm the true message that he brought in his time as a prophet, and that he never claimed to be the Son of God. Furthermore, he will reaffirm in his second coming what he prophesied in his first coming bearing witness to the seal of the Messengers, Prophet Muhammad. In his second coming many non-Muslims will accept Isa as a servant of Allah Almighty, as a Muslim and a member of the Community of Muhammad”



[edit on 1-1-2009 by VinceP1974]

Part 5 of 5


Islamic teaching: “There is not one of the People of the Scripture (Christians and Jews) but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.”

Islamic teaching: “The Prophet said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Isa. He will descent (sic) (to the earth)… He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam”

Islamic teaching: “Isa, the son of Mary will soon descend among the Muslims as a just judge… Isa will, therefore, judge according to the law of Islam… all people will be required to embrace Islam and there will be no other alternative”

Islamic teaching: “”… the time and the place for [the poll tax] is before the final descent of Isa (upon whom be peace). After his final coming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Isa’ descent (upon him and our Prophet be peace) …” “

6 - The physical badge will have markings that have direct reference to 666

In the original Greek writings, the number “666″ is written using very specific glyphs. These symbols are visually identical with the Arabic script for “In the name of Allah” and the image of two swords crossed, like you find on the flag of Saudi Arabia. These markings are actually stamped on badges that Muslims throughout history have worn when they went to war.

99.99999999999999999% of Christians think that Mark is some sort of technological device that serves as the means to implement the prohibition of those who do not worship the beast to engage in commerce. To say that they’re missing the point is an understatement. God doesn’t care who can go shopping. The Mark is about the person making himself known to be a enemy of the true God. Christians think that the significance of 666 was some sort of encoding of the Antichrist name. They made something complex because they had no other alternative explanation.

But now we know.. the same “letters” for 666.. are the same as Arabic words worn on the clothes of Muslims who engaged in Jihad throughout Islamic history.

To reemphasize:

Rev 13:18 This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the beast’s number, for it is man’s number, and his number is 666

The Beast… the 12th Imam al Mahdi.. is indeed doing everything for 666. “In the name of Allah”



[edit on 1-1-2009 by VinceP1974]

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by VinceP1974

 

Interesting thread. Thanks for posting this. I just started my first research project today in the research forum and will be exploring this subject in depth.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I'm not trying to detract from your thread or take away any replies since no one can reply to that thread except me. Just wanted to provide a link to it if you'd like to check it out. My goal is to post one new post at least daily until the project is finished.

I agree with many of the points you mention.

HI! THanks for your message. We see eye to eye exactly on this.

I remember when I realized this stuff.. scared the crap out of me.

Originally posted by aleon1018
I'm a little confused about what you wrote as the Muslims antichrist as the Iman Mahdi I thought that was the Dajjal?

Hi.. I hope this helps:

Islam Mahdi = Bible AntiChrist
Islam Jesus = Bible False Prophet
Islam AntiChrist (Dijjal) = Bible Jesus

www.islam.tc...

At any rate, I think some, such as myself may assume that we are being used against each other in a war to usher in some alien messonic figure or whomever.

The religious prophecies are 'as if' some scripted event and program. The natural and cyclical events than may be 'as if' our punishment by god or whomever.

[edit on 1-1-2009 by aleon1018]

I remain open to the idea that UFOs might have something major to do .. although I believe them to be demons/angels taking the form of naturally evolved life.

reply to post by VinceP1974

Islamic Teaching: “The [Iranians] President’s chief strategist, Hassan Abbassi, has come up with a war plan based on the premise that “Britain is the mother of all evils” – the evils being America, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, the Gulf states and even Canada, all of whom are the malign progeny of the British Empire. “We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization,” says Mr Abbassi. “There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them… Once we have defeated the Anglo-Saxons the rest will run for cover.””

I was asked one time about twenty five years ago "Do you not understand that they have declared war on us?"

I still wonder who is behind the Islamic threat.

Remember the Hitler quote in which he thought that the Muslim religion was more in line with facist thought.

If you speak to the average Muslim family they are the same as the average Chrsitian family and do not want war. They want peace.

So is the Religious thing just a front on both sides?

After all once you realize, after close study of the early Christian Church, that the Roman goverment had to bring the Christian religion into the fold in order for it to survive you begin to see that the powers that be stumbled on the perfect dichotomy.

A dichotomy is any splitting of a whole into exactly two non-overlapping parts.

In other words, it is a bipartition of elements which are mutually exclusive, nothing can belong simultaneously to both parts, and everything must belong to one part or the other. The two ways to partition elements are themselves a dichotomy. They are either complements (subdivision creating subsets) or opposites.

en.wikipedia.org...

I do not mean this in some shared value of history I define this as two basic opposite views that can never be realized.

1. Christian/Western Society ...would never accept that Islam is the only way

2. Islam and Islam society ..would never accept Christian or the values of a, in their opinion, sinful Western Society.

The only solution I see is that we completely demoralize them with whiskey, blondes and great strip clubs.





[edit on 1-1-2009 by whiteraven]

Another aspect to this is that the Holy Roman Empire was known as the "First Reich" - at it's peak spreading from the Kingdom of Germany.

en.wikipedia.org...

second being the German Empire -
en.wikipedia.org...

third .. obviously the Nazi Regime
en.wikipedia.org...

and the fourth "Roman Empire"??
well let's just ask our good buddy Jim Marrs.
en.wikipedia.org...


-

If true this could be why the Executive branch, some democrats and repubs in the other two branches protect the Saudi Royal Family.

To be honest though this is just conjecture since sometimes I think that somebody has somehow cornered President Bush who means well but he may be having a hard time pushing against public opinion.lol

The Enron pipeline connection to 9/11

This is a privileged and confidential work-product document restricted to my legal researchers and not to be released without my express written consent.
A highly reliable confidential client source who wishes to remain anonymous has promised to send me an FBI copy of a high-level Al Qaida report dating back to the embassy bombings in Africa several years ago. The email report was captured in Africa from the computer file of a senior aid to Osama Bin Laden. My client has obtained this document through lawful means,

The email report, written by Al Qaida's head of military operations, Mohammd Atef, describes Al Qaida's view of ongoing secret pipeline negotiations between the US oil companies and the Taliban to build a pipeline through Afghanistan.

This Atef report was almost certainly reviewed by the late John O'Neill at the time of the Embassy bombing, shortly after the Al Qaida report was written. At the time, O'Neill was the FBI agent in charge of the Embassy bombing investigation. The shocking pipeline information may explain why O'Neill became fixated about the Saudi-Taliban-Al Qaida relationship for the few remaining years of his life.

After O'Neill's investigations were repeatedly shut down by his superiors, O'Neill allegedly began making discreet inquiries to French intelligence using two reporters as cut-outs. Both reporters were known consultants for French intelligence and are specialists on both the oil industry and terrorism.

It is plausible that the French Government was upset at being shut out of the Caspian Basin deal, and may have been helping O'Neill behind the backs of his superior's in Washington. It does seem that the more that O'Neill learned, the less he was alowed to do with it.

The last straw was Cheney's refusal to follow up on O'Neill's request to pursue the leads in the Phoenix memo in April 2001. After resigning from the FBI in disgust, John O'Neil spoke candidly to several people, including the two French authors, whom he met again in July.

They have now written about the pipeline deal in "The Forbidden Truth." The book, not yet translated into English, quotes O'Neill as saying that his Al Qaida investigations were blocked to protect the Saudis. The Caspian Basin pipeline issue is discussed at length as the motive for the coverup.

I do not think that the French authors have the Atef document or they would have released it in their book. The Atef memo may indeed be a smoking gun, but I need to see the exact text to be sure before I release it to Congress.

This Al Qaida document may be the first hard evidence to break the Enron pipeline cover-up apart. I need your advice and confidential assistance in making a discreet collection of all Afghan pipeline research for a memo to present to Congress.

Here is my investigative hypothesis which needs to be greatly fleshed out and footnoted before I go to Congress. I have presented my thoughts by topic, rather than in chronological order.

Back in the 1970's and 80's, Saudi intelligence (not the CIA as has been reported) funded the early Taliban faction and later Al Qaida as part of the insurgency to throw the Russians out of Afghanistan. A few years afterwards, US energy companies (Enron, as the Afghan pipeline consultant for UNOCAL) used the Saudi intelligence connection to the Taliban to begin negotiations for a pipeline across Afghanistan.

Prince Turki, chief of Saudi inteligence, has publicly admitted making several trips into Afghanistan to negotiate a peace mission with the Taliban. My sources say he was the pipeline mediator for Enron. Prince Turki was fired as head of Saudi intelligence immediately after the pipeline discussions collapsed in August 2001.

Prince Turki is allegedly close to the Bin Laden family which was allegedly promised the construction contract in return for a percentage to the Saudi Royal family. This is a common business practice initiated by the Carlyle Group's contracts in Saudi Arabia.

As the Republican IPO magazine, Red Herring, confirms, President Bush' father was business partners in the Carlyle Group with the Bin Laden family during this period . This company is a Who's Who of former Democratic and Republican intelligence and political officials, whose specialty is acting as super-lobbysists at the highest levels of government. They are also suspected of arranging construction kickbacks to the Saudi royal family in return for discount oil sales.

Red Herring alleges that during a visit to Kennebunkport, Bush senior lectured his son on placating the Saudis, especially with regard to Israel, and even called the Saudis in his son's presence to reassure them that he had told his son their point of view.

Apparently, the deeply angered President Bush mentioned the private meeting with his father to a close friend, who leaked it to Red Herring. Shortly afterward, another Republican newspaper, the Boston Herald, ran a scathing expose on the number of White House officials with investments in Saudi oil, calling it an "obscene conflict of interest."

It should be noted that President Bush at first semed to reject his father's advice about Israel quite strongly, and secrtely ordered all American troops to begin a total withdrawl from Saudi Arabia. White House sources began a steady drumbeat of leaks about Saudi involvement with terrorism, and even authorized long-delayed raids on the Saudi charities in Virginia that served as a money laundry for terrorist operations against Israel.

Suddenly, President Bush made a sudden and startling switch to adopt a more pro-Saudi view. The documents seized in the Virginia raids are barely being translated, let alone investigated.

Nevertheless, the Israelis have been privately informed that criminal cases against the Saudi-financed terrorists in the US like Sami Al Arian, are being dropped for "lack of evidence" before the evidence has even been collated.

The State Department's recent report on Global Terrorism is being denounced as a blatant white-wash by Republicans and Democrats alike.

A plausible explanation for the dramatic policy reversal is that someone (allegedly Cheney) told President Bush to call off the dogs at CIA and FBI, because if the Saudis went down, they would take his father down with them. I think our President has a good heart, but is completely boxed in and does not know how to get out from under his father's legacy.

The Israeli government is angered and bewildered over the sudden switch, and has begun to release documents showing prior US knowledge of Al Qaida operations as well as Saudi support for terrorism. As Crown Prince Abdullah's visit to both Bushes in Texas showed, a modus vivendi has been reached.

The simplest explanantion is that both Crown Prince Abdullah and President Bush can blackmail each other over the Taliban pipeline. Both sides have agreed to pretend that they have always been allies in the war against terrorism, and that Iraq is the real enemy.

Mutual blackmail makes a bit of sense. The Saudi intelligence connection was the key to get the Taliban pipeline negotiations going without the CIA or FBI finding out. The Enron political connection to the Bush and Clinton administrations was key to keeping the CIA and FBI off of the Saudis' backs while the negotiations were underway. Messy little details about terrorism were swept under the rug for the sake of the big picture.

The truth is already starting to leak out. It has just been discovered that Enron had purchased huge tracts of land in the Caspian basin, especialy in Turkmenistan, which property is allegedly still on their books. The acerage is enormous, and worthless.

But, if the Taliban pipeline had been built, Enron might have owned some of the most valuable oil exploration sites in the world, and rescued itself from insolvency. Any White House insider who helped Enron would have gotten rich, filthy rich.

When Bush's son came into office, Enron allegedly approached Cheney in late January and told him veguely about the secret Saudi-Taliban pipeline negotiations, and how important it was to America's energy policy for generations to come.

Like an idiot, Cheney agreed to keep the lid on any Saudi-Taliban investigations for a while. For the sake of the Caspian Basin pipeline, Cheney passed the word inside the beltway not to allow anyone in the Government to connect the dots.

All across America, ongoing Saudi-Taliban investigations were hindered, obstructed, or closed down, just as the Clinton administration had done before them.

What no one did was check Enron's accounting. The pipeline deal made little economic sense in view of Russian cooperation. To Enron's horror, the pipeline deal collapsed in August. Then came 9/11. Then came the Enron collapse. Then came the Cheney coverup.

Cheney's biggest problem is the two fairly senior intelligence officalls who rebelled and became whistleblowers: Robert Baer of CIA and John O'Neill of FBI. The rest of the FBI and CIA higher ups have kept their mouths shut, although a lot of lower level people are now coming forward to question their superior's strange behavior. The two rebels, Baer of CIA and O'Neill of FBI, were of course, driven into retirement.

Much of the Saudi information was blacked out of Baer's book by CIA censors, but enough remains to thoroughly document the brazen avarice of senior Clinton NSC officials for a Caspian Basin pipeline.

Baer names a few names, but he was driven into retirement before he could learn too much


[edit on 1-1-2009 by whiteraven]

Enron and the end times???

HA!

Thats funny...but if you read it and look at where that brings us over in the Middle East...between a rock and a hard place...it creates a wedge for the radical Muslims to leverage the local polititics.
The Taliban would not exist nor would it have gained Russian, China, Indian and US interest if not for the Caspian Basin.

Is this the Georgia push....lol

Pretty wild when you can discuss the Bible and historic events that have just occured.

[edit on 1-1-2009 by whiteraven]

reply to post by VinceP1974



Thats what i thought too - i'm not religious so i am looking with non-biased eyes, Sarah offers her maidservant Hagar to bear a child to Abram, then doesn't like it when it happens - (Jealous although but even worse because from her own doing):

"01:021:009 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had
born unto Abraham, mocking.

01:021:010 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and
her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with
my son, even with Isaac.

01:021:011 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of
his son.

01:021:012 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight
because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that
Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in
Isaac shall thy seed be called.

01:021:013 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation,
because he is thy seed. "


So, listening to god and to please Sarah he casts her out.... i dont like Sarah already, poor Hagar. any and so it goes.......................


"01:021:014 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and
a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her
shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed,
and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

01:021:015 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child
under one of the shrubs.

01:021:016 And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way
off, as it were a bow shot: for she said, Let me not see the
death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up
her voice, and wept.

01:021:017 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God
called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth
thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad
where he is.

01:021:018 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will
make him a great nation.

01:021:019 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she
went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad
drink.

01:021:020 And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the
wilderness, and became an archer.

01:021:021 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took
him a wife out of the land of Egypt."


See that doesn't make sense does it - God being moral and all that, theres got to be a twist to it - Hagars vengenace perhaps?? If i didn't know better - i's say 'God' was playing both sides of against each other deliberately




[edit on 1-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

Hagars vengenace perhaps??
(quote]

Great concept. That is just a mind blowing concept.

And I do not mean that in jest in any sense of the word.

You reap what you sow.

Star.

reply to post by VinceP1974


Maybe the fourth empire was the British Empire at it's highest point?
They literally took over using iron/steel.
And they do seem to coincide with a lot of the locations listed.

I can't agree with all this religion talk. God is an all loving entity. God does not kill...the devil puts the idea of killing into the minds of mankind, and enjoys it. I can't accept that an all loving entity would talk about killing, revenge, hatred, jealousy,misery etc. Those are qualities of the devil or darkness. A true being of light would not posses these traits. Therefore my conclusion is that the Bible writings have been corrupted. Religions, and their "Book",that does not teach true love have also been corrupted.

You don't need to figure out what the Bible says. Live your life with TRUE LOVE in your heart for all things living and you will be with God for all eternity.



[edit on 1-1-2009 by Muundoggie]

Originally posted by Muundoggie
I can't agree with all this religion talk. God is an all loving entity. God does not kill...the devil puts the idea of killing into the minds of mankind, and enjoys it. I can't accept that an all loving entity would talk about killing, revenge, hatred, jealousy,misery etc. Those are qualities of the devil or darkness. A true being of light would not posses these traits. Therefore my conclusion is that the Bible writings have been corrupted. Religions that do not teach true love have also been corrupted.

You don't need to figure out what the Bible says. Live your life with TRUE LOVE in your heart for all things living and you will be with God for all eternity.

[edit on 1-1-2009 by Muundoggie]

I respect everyone's view on this. So I wont tell you that you're wrong. I just disagree. God has written his plan and it's in the Bible. The important thing is though, is that He didn't give instructions to Christians or Jews to hate or kill anyone. Who God punishes, or what nations he judges , etc etc.. is his business not mine.

So I'm no position to impose my wishful thinking on God but fortunately neither is He telling me to fight his battles for him. It also means that I am not to base my actions on screwy readings of the Bible.. I'm to use my rational logical mind , and I do.

The story isn't the same in Islam though... Allah does demand his worshipers engage in war under the right circumstances.

Originally posted by spec_ops_wannabe
reply to post by VinceP1974

 

Maybe the fourth empire was the British Empire at it's highest point?
They literally took over using iron/steel.
And they do seem to coincide with a lot of the locations listed.

England wont fit the totality of Biblical prophecy. Just like with teh Western Roman Empire , you can make that fit a lot of the verses but it fails in many respects.

The main fail is that the Future Antichrist comes out of one of the 4 divisions that the Greek/Macadonian Empire broke up to after Alexander died. (The Seleucid Empire)

Daniel 8:8 The male goat [Greek/Macedonian Empire] acted even more arrogantly. But no sooner had the large horn [Alexander the Great] become strong than it was broken, and there arose four conspicuous horns [The 4 succeeding Empires] in its place, extending toward the four winds of the sky.

From one of them came a small horn [End Time Antichrist]. But it grew to be very big, toward the south and the east and toward the beautiful land

The angel explains the meaning here

Daniel 8:22 The horn that was broken and in whose place there arose four others stands for four kingdoms that will arise from his nation, though they will not have his strength. Toward the end of their rule, when rebellious acts are complete, a rash and deceitful king will arise

So this really rules out any Empire that is not centered in the Middle East.

Originally posted by prevenge
Another aspect to this is that the Holy Roman Empire was known as the "First Reich" - at it's peak spreading from the Kingdom of Germany.

en.wikipedia.org...

second being the German Empire -
en.wikipedia.org...

third .. obviously the Nazi Regime
en.wikipedia.org...

and the fourth "Roman Empire"??
well let's just ask our good buddy Jim Marrs.
en.wikipedia.org...


-

The Bible is first and foremost a story about Israel and the world as it relates to Israel. It is a book about the East.. It not a book about the West. Our problem being in the Rich West is that we think it's all about us.. It's not.. It's about Israel.

reply to post by VinceP1974

I respect your opinions as well but please refrain from referring to God as "HE"
God has no gender.

More Anti-Islamthreads? No offence.

But I've seriously started to have enough of all this islam/religion talk on this website, it's making this place feel dark and depressing.

I think I'm going to start avoiding these anti-islam threads. Gives me a headache. haha.
Peace.


[edit on 1-1-2009 by _Phoenix_]