The Gaza situation. Israel's fault?

Israel is very adept at winning the propaganda war. We see it here. "Israel has the right to exist". "Israel has the right to defend itself". Both of those statements I have no problem with. I DO have a problem with the way things go down. Hamas fires ineffective weapons at Israel and they retaliate with extreme force. Why does Hamas do this? Purely for political reasons? Maybe but what does this mean for the average Palestinian? What's s/he been through?

Let's check that.

* News
* World news

Gaza goes hungry as Israeli sanctions bite
Palestinian Authority prepares for US peace talks but Hamas is out in the cold

* Conal Urquhart in Beit Lahiya
* The Guardian, Friday 12 October 2007
* Article history

It does not take shopkeeper Salah Sultan long to count his stock. There are six tins of sardines, four bottles of vegetable oil, one packet of nappies, nine boxes of wafers and a large tin of powdered milk.

Grains and pulses have been removed from their original packing and subdivided into more affordable portions. Above the door is a space where a television used to be, and by his elbow is the Qur'an and his ledger book.

His accounts make grim reading. His customers owe him 5,000 shekels (£613), and he owes his suppliers double that. "I'm already almost closed and I really don't know for how much longer I will continue. Without the shop I could try ironing or driving a taxi. It is in God's hands," he said, pointing to the Qur'an.

As the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah and the Israeli government in Jerusalem prepare for talks in the United States next month, Gaza is excluded from the new rapprochement. Mr Sultan and others like him are facing ruin as a result of Israeli sanctions designed to weaken the Hamas government and punish their supporters.

According to a World Bank report issued last month: "Gaza's economic backbone and private sector vitality risks collapse if the current situation ... continues." The report states that 90% of Gaza's industrial production has ceased and agricultural output has fallen by 50% in 2007.

While the Gazan economy is in free fall, Hamas, the main target of the Israeli sanctions, and its political rival, Fatah, appear to be awash with cash.

There were crowds in the main streets last week surveying lists of names to see if they had been nominated to receive a $100 (£50) gift for Ramadan from either Hamas or Fatah. Hamas was offering the sum to 40,000 people, while Fatah was giving to 65,000.

Both parties, through their respective governments in Gaza and Ramallah, hope to pay their civil servants and security forces in full this month. Hamas says it will pay 16,000 salaries this week, averaging $400 a person, while Fatah will pay around 60,000 - on the understanding that the recipients stay at home and do not work with the Hamas government.

Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, the organisation that provides social services for Palestinian refugees, said that the payment of wages in Gaza was having little effect on Gaza's continued economic disintegration. "There is an increasing sense of isolation and desperation which is likely to lead to a radicalisation of the population when there seems to be momentum in the peace process generally. As ever the most vulnerable sectors of society are the hardest hit by the sanctions."

The Israeli sanctions are affecting every level of Gazan society. Farmers have been particularly hard hit as they have been barred from exporting their products and denied pesticides and fertiliser by Israel, which makes it impossible to plant for next year.

Spare parts for water pumps and other equipment are also barred.

The army recently banned the import of hearing aid batteries for Gaza's school for the deaf on the grounds that they could be used to make bombs.

It is reducing the amount of food going into Gaza every week as it tries to exert more pressure on the population to bring about political change.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Read that article. It's not always bombs that start a rebellion. Remember the Boston Tea Party? This article was from last year though. Maybe Israel has changed their tactics. maybe not. From this month:

Today, for the first time in a month, Israel is temporarily lifting some restrictions on aid workers and journalists in Gaza. People in the Gaza Strip are paying a heavy price for the Israeli sanctions and policies of starvation and humiliation. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza are struggling daily to secure enough food, water, fuel and cooking gas. Black-market cooking gas prices are now at US $100 a tank!

The deteriorating situation in the territories now means that for the first time, 80 percent of families in Gaza are living in abject poverty and malnutrition rates among Gaza's children are rapidly rising.

The siege is widely recognized as collective punishment of a civilian population, and constitutes an act defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention as a war crime. Israel’s sanctions on the impoverished coastal territory started after Hamas won parliamentary elections in 2006 which were considered free and fair by international observers. The Israeli state further tightened the rope after Hamas ousted the rival Fatah movement in what many have described as an Israeli and US-backed offensive by Fatah aimed at driving Hamas out of the enclave

Israel had in the past invaded Gaza with tanks and soldiers in a number of offensives, killing Hamas members and civilians. These numerous breakings of ceasefire agreements have prompted Gazan fighters to resume rocket fire.

socialistworld.net...

This piece is written with a Palestinian bent but the first was from the UK. Seems similar. The sanctions that Israel puts on the Palestinians are the impetus of the rocket attacks. Saying that Palestine attacks first is short sighted and incorrect. They are reacting to the plight that they are subject to by Tel Aviv.

TA pushes the people so far they have no other option other than an ineffectual military one. This plays right into the Israeli propaganda machine. They play the martyr. They say, "We were attacked". It plays on the international scene but it's not a good gauge for what's going on here. There are even Israeli's that are not happy with the status quo. Google Machsom Watch. Or see this post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read people. Think. Don't be lead by the propaganda machine. We're talking about people here. Not nationalities. THAT is what they want you to continue thinking about. Not the human factor.

Edit: changed title from "It's not all about the rockets and mortars. Why?" I guess sensational titles get read. This is too important NOT to be read.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by intrepid]

Here in Florida, we've had an influx of damned yankees that are really fouling up our conservative values. But you know what? They're here. Done deal.

The Israelis are now there, with their own country. A lot of Scots got run out of Scotland, and a lot if Irish got run out of Ireland. Yesterday is yesterday. Hell, my people were run out of both.

Guess what? I am not bemoaning the fact that my "rightful" place is in Scotland. NO. I'm now American, my family are all American, and we do fine. I have no right to go bomb Britain and a few groups in Scotland over something that is over and done.

You basically ask, what's with the big response to a few relatively harmless missiles being fired.

What if your neighbor across the street was taking pot shots at your home, and he couldn't hit $#!T, but he kept firing? Sooner or later, he's going to get a hit. You? Your wife? Your child? Come on, tell the truth.

You'd not respond in kind!

It IS a big deal when it's you and yours. The problem here is that most people simply don't count the Israelis as being anything. Muslims consider them pigs and monkeys.

So I really don't take their opinion into consideration.

Gazans have their own land, Israelis have theirs.

Gazans shoot at Israelis, then I would feel they are justified to wipe them out, every man, woman, and child. If that's what they are growing, then I'd make sure they couldn't grow any more.

I'd cut off all electricity, all access through Israeli borders, and let them figure it out.

Both parties in this conflict have both done equal ammounts of horrible things to eachother. Why must people try and pick at whose fault it is?

To tell you the truth it's the UN's fault. They're the ones who draw imaginary lines in the sand and let people claim ownership of something that has never been they'res and never will be. The Earth. Were all APART of this place, we don't own any of it. And to tell you the truth, we need the Earth more than it needs us.

To many Americans, disputes like this are like watching a football game. It's all about "rooting for your team." Attitudes like this are why politicians make the decisions they do. Why? Because they want the support of the voters who are not interested in the nuances of the issues.

Politicians then make decisions on overseas affairs that destroy many lives. And we wonder why there is so much hostility toward the United States outside of North America. .

Now let's get back to rooting for our team, grab some chips and a beer, turn on Fox News and watch the world burn!

[edit on 12/30/2008 by clay2 baraka]

How to put this....,


There can be no analogy of - what if your neighbors starting lobbing rockets in your direction - because I am not strong arming my neighbor and forcing him to live in a permanent gulag.

Watch your children waste away. Have your son beaten to a pulp because some foreign soldier didn't like his face. Let all you 30 or so family members move in to your place because theirs was flattened by a foreigner with guns.

Do you actually see these conditions as NOT warranting a response? Do you think you could endure for years on end, watching your homeland simply - taken away?

I won't expect recognition of these facts because Israel's apologist share a trait that the Israeli government has...

Israel seems to be impervious to the scrutiny that demonstrates her insensitivity. But only in her own mind.

Things have been better in Gaza mostly when they stop shooting guns,
shooting rockets, and suicide bombing of israelis.

When the ppl in Gaza stop the attacks the Israeli's will back off the
violent reponse.

We have seen that in the past, and if you deny it then you are biased.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Not really.We,humans,if not always,almost always we were claimming territories.Hell,even animals do...!

It's nothing new,we always did that,we still do and since it's our nature,we'll keep doing it.





Unfortunatelly i don't have anything to add to the actual thread since i can't just blame one side.Things like that are always complicated.

Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Not really.We,humans,if not always,almost always we were claimming territories.Hell,even animals do...!

It's nothing new,we always did that,we still do and since it's our nature,we'll keep doing it.


Unfortunatelly i don't have anything to add to the actual thread since i can't just blame one side.Things like that are always complicated.

That i can understand, what i meant to say what in this day and age, we should realize that such things will only lead to conflic and war. Coutries are just another way to seperate and pin people against eachother.

You hit a dog and it bites you, one would think you would learn to stop hitting the dog. I don't blame one side or another for the place this conflict is today, they are both guilty of sins in this fight. What I really do not like is the disproportionate response the Israelis let loose time and time again making things worse instead of better. The killing of civilians is unacceptable but it seems it's been OK since WWII. It is simply counter productive in this case, creating more hate that lives for generations. Pox on both their houses!

From what I understand, Gaza has alliances with Iraq and what not - why do they insist on remaning seperate from their rightful domain? Isreal has every right to respond to what's going on in the manner they are.

I mean, what would America do if we suddenly had a bunch of refugees from another region move into our borders and start that kind of behavior?

It's just silly. I wish those guys would just give up and go home already.

It'd be great if we cold send out a convoy of Peace Corp engineers and whatnot to help build a area up in Iraq or something that would be ready to house and sustain these peoples.

But - this isn't my area of expertise by any means - I just think it's time for a relocation of those guys.

What you have to remember is that when Hamas fire ineffective rockets into Israel they do it knowing that Israel will retaliate on a massive scale which will kill hundreds if not thousands. In effect, they are offering up their own people to be slaughtered. . . Then they run to the world press all dough eyed and ask for sympathy. Having a jewish grandmother I've always been on the side of Israel but now I'm fed up hearing about this conflict. Both sides are as bad as one another.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
From what I understand, Gaza has alliances with Iraq and what not -

OK, got a credible link to that?

I wish those guys would just give up and go home already.

Home is what they're fighting for. THEY were displaced.

It'd be great if we cold send out a convoy of Peace Corp engineers and whatnot to help build a area up in Iraq or something that would be ready to house and sustain these peoples.

Sorry, are you serious?

But - this isn't my area of expertise by any means - I just think it's time for a relocation of those guys.

Which ones?

ATS= Ignorance embraced!

The "Palestinian" people have been used as pawns by their Arab neighbors since the Partition. They have been used by their leadership. They have elected to be used, abused, and defiled by their embrace of 1st: The PLO, and now: Hamas.

There have been thousands of Israeli Arabs who have lived, worked, cooperated, and flourished under Israeli rule. It is their own brethren who have taken safety and security from them.

reply to post by scottsquared


So you're saying the Israeli sanctions have nothing to do with their reaction?

It's liken to the laws of thermo-dynamics. Every action will have an equal and opposite re-action. Not that anything in human relations is actually equal.

Please address my assertion that the "Palestinians" have been "used" as a means to an end(that of the destruction of the State of Israel), by their Arab brothers and sisters.