The Court's Duty in the Constitutional Issue of Native Born vs. Dual Citizen

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

First, why could the SCOTUS not have taken the case because they felt it had no merit? Why do you have to assume it is because of some obligation they feel to Obama or some other reason that justifies your suspicions? Couldn't it just be them saying, "Meh, this case has no ground to stand on"?

Second, I think if you dig deeper, you'll find that your "he's still a dual citizen with Kenya" argument is incorrect due to his being under 18.

Last, when considering the founder's thoughts, do you honestly think that in todays times, they could would want a person like Obama impeached on a technicality?

Those rules were set up for a reason, and that reason most certainly was not to keep good Americans out of office, but rather to ensure the integrity of the POTUS position.

[edit on 12/30/2008 by Irish M1ck]

First, because they said that they were denied because of "Lack of Standing".

Second, according to Kenyan law, he was and still is a Kenyan citizen. He didn't need to renounce his American citizenship because in Kenya, they don't recognize dual citizenship in the first place.

Third, I don't see it as a technicality. They didn't want any divided loyalities involved with the president. I don't either. Really, if he is hiding something, that is extremely bad because it gives whoever gets the proof of it first the ability to blackmail the POTUS.

The only reason anyone is questioning this is because he's refused blatently to give his original birth certificate (not a picture). He should just give it - everyone else has including John McCain (he even let people see his medical records).

My sincere apology to the op.

I am unable to post in this thread.

I lack standing.


Court won't touch this issue with a ten foot pole.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


If he was hiding something it would have come out by now. There are not that many people willing to sacrifice their careers to help out someone they've never met (for instance, the State Department of Health Director who came out on record defending Obama's birth there).

So far, absolutely no evidence has come out that has provided anyone with a reason to doubt Obama was born in the country. Every suspicion that has been raised has been refuted, and then everyone just moves onto the next accusation like nothing happened.

I can sit here and argue with people on multiple different fronts because they can't decide what they are accusing Obama of. He was born in Hawaii but had dual citizenship, or he was born in Kenya, or he has some sort of citizenship in Indonesia... blah BLAH BLAH.

No proof, no documentation. All baseless accusations from people with a false agenda who lure in others who lack basic reasoning skills or also have agendas.

It's old news now, and I think you might as well move on. I am sure there will be some other big, pseudo-scandal out here shortly for you to bide your time on.

Vagabond nailed this one on the head earlier in the thread. The SCOTUS cannot hear this case and issue and advisory opinion on the matter as the question, his eligibillity, hasn't created the element of "damage" by those bringing suit. So far, they have not demonstrated how they were affected by his being elected. Now,suprisingly, the case brought forth by Keys SHOULD have had standing and been allowed to proceed.

What you are likely to see is the second Obama signs any legislation, you will see an avalanche of lawsuits - most of which are likely to have standing in the eyes of the court. I assure you, this is going to get very, very interesting.

reply to post by kozmo


Yup, it certainly will be interesting if they can provide evidence, pick an argument, and get their overall story straight. Most times I am arguing with people over these cases, I notice people jump from Obama hasn't produced a BC, to he was born in Kenya, to he was born in Hawaii but has dual citizenship with Kenya, or dual citizenship with Indonesia, or any other ridiculous theory one can think of.

So sure, if they get some evidence and an actual formulated argument, yes, it could get interesting.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Ok Mick, let's disregard the fact that this post is supposed to be about the Supreme Court's duty and not about Obama for the moment.

Which is easier to prove - that you ARE a citizen of the U.S. or that you ARE NOT a citizen? I know you'll say that Obama has provided the necessary documentation so I'm gonna reply to that now. When my children entered first grade, I had to provide an ORIGINAL birth certificate. When my son wanted to play baseball for the city, I had to provide a birth certificate (it was allowed to be a copy). When I was investigated for a security clearance, I had to provide a long list of documentation that each and every one was checked out along with my character. And so on.

My point is that the American people have asked to see the original. Does the president work for us? Shouldn't he provide the documentation that we need? The Director of the Hawaiian office that issued Obama's certificate of live birth said that the department did have his original birth certificate but Obama refuses to let us see it. Now, any reasonable person with nothing to hide (including you if I may be so bold) would allow that. What do you think would have happened if I hadn't given the school district permission to see my children's birth certificates when I enrolled them in 1st grade? They wouldn't have been allowed to attend. What's the difference?

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
My point is that the American people have asked to see the original.

So, this isn't really about Obama's alleged dual citizenship (which he lost, according to the Constitution of Kenya, when he turned 21), but it's just another demand to see his private document? It's another "Birth Certificate" thread in disguise... :shk:

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


You most certainly did not show an original. You showed what Obama showed and that is a COLB (go look at it and I bet you'll see those words). Obama is not allowed to release his original birth certificate to the public without a court order. He has released the only other document he has - a COLB.

BH is right. Let's quit beating around the bush and get to the real point:

Everyone continues to demand for a private document that, in all reality, they are absolutely not privy to see.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

So, this isn't really about Obama's alleged dual citizenship (which he lost, according to the Constitution of Kenya, when he turned 21), but it's just another demand to see his private document? It's another "Birth Certificate" thread in disguise... :shk:

Kenya never has recognized dual citizenship. He remains a citizen of Kenya TODAY. Have you even read their constitution? I have. I bet you just took the word of factcheck.org. Well my advice on that is don't. Go to the source Kenya Constitution

Uh yes, I guess it has become that with me after doing the research. I really do want to know for sure now!

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

You most certainly did not show an original. You showed what Obama showed and that is a COLB (go look at it and I bet you'll see those words). Obama is not allowed to release his original birth certificate to the public without a court order. He has released the only other document he has - a COLB.

BH is right. Let's quit beating around the bush and get to the real point:

Everyone continues to demand for a private document that, in all reality, they are absolutely not privy to see.

I most certainly DID show the original birth certificate. In fact, I had never even heard of a COLB until this whole Obama thing came up.

I think if you were honest with yourself you have doubts too because you wouldn't be protesting so much over a little birth cert. Really, what is the big deal? They showed the COLB and it supposedly has the same info on it so it's not really private anymore is it? It only becomes a big deal IF there's something to hide.

[edit on 1/1/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Kenya never has recognized dual citizenship.

Who cares what Kenya recognizes? US Law is not based on Kenyan law. Kenyan law does not matter.

He remains a citizen of Kenya TODAY.

No. You are wrong.

Have you even read their constitution?

I HAVE.

I have. I bet you just took the word of factcheck.org. Well my advice on that is don't.

If you read it, you didn't understand it. And you would lose that bet.

According the the Kenyan Constitution that you sourced:

97. Dual citizenship

1. A person who, upon the attainment of the age of twenty-one years, is a citizen of Kenya and also a citizen of some country other than Kenya shall, subject to subsection (7), cease to be a citizen of Kenya upon the specified date unless he has renounced his citizenship of that other country, taken the oath of allegiance and, in the case of a person who was born outside Kenya. made and registered such declaration of his intentions concerning residence as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament.

SO, unless you can show me where Obama renounced his US citizenship, took an oath of allegiance to Kenya and made and registered a declaration of his intentions concerning residence, then I'm going to have to stick with my original statement. He lost his Kenyan citizenship at 21 years of age.

I have been researching this for many months. I discovered this 6 months ago.



[edit on 1-1-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


You don't have the original.

It's a copy, a certified copy if anything. It's called a COLB. At least go look at it before you argue with me. Again, he cannot show the original if he wants it. The state holds that, and they need a court order to release it to the public.

[edit on 1/1/2009 by Irish M1ck]

Ok, I looked AGAIN at all three birth certificates I have access to. They are all certified copies of BIRTH CERTIFICATES. Like I said, I had never heard of a COLB before all of this AND I don't really know why we're arguing this point anyway. Just so you know, I'm not looking a third time.

Benevolent Heretic - I'll have to go back and find where I saw in the Kenyan Constitution about the dual citizenship thing. I just don't have time to do it right now.


[edit on 2/1/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


So, maybe you can read this post that has lots of good and informative information about birth certificates/COLBs.

And you don't have time to look at the Kenyan Constitution again...

That's cool. I think it's pretty clear that really studying birth certificates and comparing yours to the birth certificates in my thread (linked above) or delving deeper into the Kenyan Constitution wouldn't further your agenda, so you "refuse" and "don't have time".

You might want to consider the ATS motto for a few minutes. If you have time.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Am I the only one who finds this offensive?

I think you're mistaken on some points of Law is all. You have touched on a couple of legal points and issues but you didn't define as the Government has what a Citizen is, a 14th Amendment Citizen, A State Citizen, A Freeman, a State National etc. etc..

In Lawful fact anyone that claims to have standing in the United States over the President elected is automatically telling the Court that THEY posses Dual Citizenship, which most don't know. And by making this declaration take their standing to sue in the Courts out of the game...

I won't get into it deep but if you voted for President and your State offices also at the same time, as most do, you have committed Rebellion and sedition against either the State or the U.S. and you have no lawful standing in Rebellion. There is a book hat would, if you're really interested, explain exactly what is LAWFULLY happening here and in other cases. That book is called "The Red Amendment" and it is by L.B. Bork a Constitutional Scholar and can be found on the website linked below. Hope this Helps ya

Website is HERE

*sigh*

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): "Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth

Under this law Obama was born with dual citizenship as his father was subject to British nationality laws. However according to the United States constitution an individual looses his eligibility for the presidency if he has dual citizenship or whether that citizenship is significant to the other nation at the time of his nomination and win for presidency.

Dual citizenship
1. A person who, upon the attainment of the age of twenty-one years, is a citizen of Kenya and also a citizen of some country other than Kenya shall, subject to subsection (7), cease to be a citizen of Kenya upon the specified date unless he has renounced his citizenship of that other country, taken the oath of allegiance and, in the case of a person who was born outside Kenya. made and registered such declaration of his intentions concerning residence as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament.
2. * A person who

kenya.rcbowen.com...

Kenyan constitution prohibited dual citizenship for adults, in particular those who chose not swear to the Kenyan nation and those who did not drop their opposing citizenship (American citizenship). The moment Obama turned 21, he lost his dual citizenship and just became an american natural born citizen. That means that since august 4th 1982 Obama has only been a natural born citizen of these united states, for over a quarter of a century. The minute his dual citizenship ceased to exist in 1982, the time prior to that when he was a dual citizen in part to Kenya became insignificant as he never swore an oath to the Kenyan nation. This makes him eligible to be president of these United states.

In addition to this fact even if Obama was born off US soil, the marriage between Ms Dunham and Mr Obama would not actually legal under by law in 61’. This was because Mr Obama had already been married in Kenya and this would have left Ms Dunham, a single American natural born citizen, having given birth to a child abroad out of wedlock. In this case the natural born laws in the constitution require one year of presence in America prior. So this would have made Obama a natural born citizen in any case. This would have falling in the same category as John McCain’s status. Note that automatic acquisition of a second nationality will NOT affect U.S. natural born citizenship of a child born to two or one(single unwed) natural born US citizen(s).

Now in any case Obama was born on US soil, to a natural born american mother, where the marriage was not recognized under Kenyan law (maybe american) as Mr Obama had already been married in Kenya. You as any american with a half brain as to whether an individual born on US soil to a american mother, is a natural born and they will say yes.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by southern_Guardian]