Uproar in Australia over plan to block Web sites

A point I haven't seen anyone else bring up is, what happens when you cut off a pedophile from his porn. Is he not more likely to go out and actually rape kids then to just sit at home at get his jollies off by himself? I'm in no way advocating either let me get that part straight. But i wonder if the government plans to put more money into counseling programs for the victims of the now desperate predators?

All and all censoring the internet is a horrible idea. If out current government doesn't use this as a tool to block anything they deem contrary to the public interest a future government is almost certain to. This could also be used a precedent by other countries to install a similar scheme.

This is how they do it.

1. Come up with a noble idea that everyone thinks is good.

2. Once plenty support it, implement it.

3. Then change it.

Anyone who thinks this "firewall" won't be expanded over time to include other sites is a fool. Over time, they will use this firewall to prevent people accessing sites that are against "national security".

One day blocking child pornography, the next day blocking truth...

Originally posted by ivzm
A point I haven't seen anyone else bring up is, what happens when you cut off a pedophile from his porn. Is he not more likely to go out and actually rape kids then to just sit at home at get his jollies off by himself?

That's a good point. I can't really answer that. But my guess is that if someone is looking at child pornography, they already want to molest children. It's only a matter of opportunity before they do.

If their computers won't satisfy them, they may well go for a walk down the street instead. Or maybe having easy access on the net will make them excited, and then they will go for a walk down the street...


[edit on 1/1/09 by NuclearPaul]

reply to post by NuclearPaul


Kinda damned if you do, damned if you don't! The deterance doesn't seem to exist for these people. I'm not sure any one has ever tried to explore if any are ever cured or stop their interest in children. So many reasons for this problem crop up that its hard to put a quantitive number on the problem. Assuredly though, once implemented, it will be expanded to include anything our governments wish to hide from us. i wonder what the techies that work to undermine this censorship will come up with to fight it. I'm sure a few brilliant folks are already working on it! I hope!!!
Zindo

I think also what were forgetting is Australia isn't some brainwashed country like the USA where even though you have free speech, everyday your rights are bieng taken away !!!!

The Australian public would run rampant all over this if it was even close to getting put into Goverment

i know for as fact here in Newcastle and in Sydney there are large groups of people about to make major protests about this..... Voices will be heard !!!

and whats this about more lag on xbox 360
please no, its bad enough already lol

reply to post by Disclosure Agent


Gee, thanks for slapping the whole US as being brainwashed, I didn't know I was so ignorant or stupid. Thanks for letting us know. I have always wondered what it was that made us so differant from the brainwashed Aussies!!!LOL

Zindo

Originally posted by Disclosure Agent
I think also what were forgetting is Australia isn't some brainwashed country like the USA where even though you have free speech, everyday your rights are bieng taken away !!!!

At least they actually have rights to be taken away, here in Australia we don’t. We have so little rights here compared to most western countries and most unfortunately a lot of Aussies just take what’s given to them without question.

You call the whole USA brainwashed, yet I bet you have probably never even been there, you have been watching way too much Australian media (they’re usually all anti-US). Most people over here who are anti-US don’t really have a valid reason, they just are because it seems to be the “in thing” here, sheeple I guess.

Originally posted by Disclosure Agent
The Australian public would run rampant all over this if it was even close to getting put into Goverment

No they wouldn’t, as said above I have noticed from living here that a lot of Aussies don’t stand up for themselves and their rights (what little there is) and just bend over backwards and take whatever is given to them. Not all Aussies, but unfortunately a large majority, this is the sad truth about this country. There is only a small minority who would and will actually stand up against this.

People here don’t stand up to things like this, they just follow whatever their backward media tell them and fall for it hook line and sinker all the time.

We don’t even have bloody Free Speech in this country, and I haven’t seen one protest about it or any Australians complain about it, and you have the nerve to call the USA brainwashed?

People in glass houses.........

Mikey

I saw the Minister who's department is responsible for implementing it, Conrad I think his name is, on a show a few weeks ago.
And the guy looked and sounded NERVOUS.

He's been inundated with emails of protest with a lot of people threatening to protest in the streets if this goes ahead. (Myself included.)

So the message is getting through.

I don't trust the Australian government with these kind of things.

The gun buy back after Port Arthur, was an absolute failure.
Now the crims/gangs have all the guns and gun crime/shootings are just as bad as they ever were.

This has nothing to do with Child Pornography.
They know that it won't stop it.
The trojan horse is actually INTERNET CENSORSHIP OF INFORMATION.

The government can control what is reported in the newspapers/radio and TV but they have no control on what is reported on the Internet.
And it bugs the hell out of them....

The best investigative journalism I have seen in a long time, is what I've seen on the Net. These people can't be bought off/silenced and only have one agenda....finding the truth.

I saw Rupert Murdoch on Meet The Press and even he said that he has no idea where the print media goes from here as the Net has taken over how people receive and acquire their news which is usually from alternative news sites.

And because Murdoch has a lot of sway with our government, then it doesn't surprise me in the least that all this filtering which will ultimately squash alternative news/alternative sites, is well and truly underway under the guise of protecting children.

The United States congress tried this in 2004 and 2006 they tried to do it in secret both times and I caught them doing it needless to say they didnt get away with it yet. This is the ultimate problem when you deal with both censorship and freedom of speach.

ATS exists because we no matter where we are in the world all of us come here for our own reasons and in many cases own agenda's. The question is where do you draw and line and even if you do how do you enforce it?

Brute force leads to more brute force exc exc exc. Regulation's lead to excessive laws and unnessarry force excerted on populations around the world.

Sooner or later The united states government along with other government's are going to push there citizens too far and there will be a backlash to what extent and what level that occurs I dont know I can only speculate.

Anthony Scelea of the United States Supreme Court had a interview on pbs not that long ago on this very issue of enforcement and regulation of freedom of speach when it came to the cia leak case. I have had people derail my investigations too so I know how frustrating it can be trying to do something and have someone or some special interest group come in and screw everything up.

Its a outstanding and great thing to explore to question where do we draw that invisible line of what can be done and what will not be done and who sets the line and why and what do we call morals exc exc.

One could argue that the Austrailian Government has the right to police it's people and govern its people how it sees fit the only problem with that is you cannot make everyone happy we dont live in a perfact world and we never will.

Clearly there is a standard that says in most but not all cultures including government's that says homosexuality is detramental to society and is not something that should be premoted or tollerated. These kinds of questions people in every leadership and governing position ponder everyday and still to this day we dont have a exact working formula.

Where do you draw the line I would say the clear standard would be or should be do unto others as they do unto you. If a nation starts a war against you or your way of life there is a reason to engage in a war aganist that country.

The same for regulation and so called right's the only rights I consider anyone to have in the united states are ones people are willing to stand up and enforce. If someone does not use the rights they have or have been given they lose them. If they are not aware of the rights they have most people would say ignoreance is no excuse for the law.

That is a whole bigger arguement and discussion for another day.

Thats my 2 cents for today.

Falcon

What I'm wondering is, if the filter adds words like 'terrorist' 'bombing' etc etc, would it be possible the filter would block ATS?

I'm 100% against the censorship of the internet, and the fact that this 'world-first for a democracy' is being pushed in my country really angers me.

Hell, there is so many individual filters available like Net Nanny. It is up to parents, lazy parents, to protect their children, not the government.

When I first read about this in the paper, I was shocked to hear it was already being run through Parliament! Many Aussie ISPs have voiced their disapproval at this action since and I must join them.

There are just too many negative consequences that will occur, including:

1) an unnecessary attack on one's freedoms
2) Who or what standard is applied when determining if something is or is not appropriate?
3) A significant slowdown in all internet traffic (Australia's internet capabilities are already considered in the bottom bracket of developed countries)
4) This action will unlikely result in any crime reduction.
5) Far and behold in MOST households, PARENTS within these households have the responsibility to protect their OWN children, not others.

I think those who proposed this filter have good intentions - protecting their kids and families. But I think it is ridiculous they tried to pass this through with such stealth, and didnt consider the overwhelmingly negative consequences for all internet users.

First 3 posts replying to the OP pretty much sums up how rational people with an awareness of gov't tactics realize this is a try to push emotional buttons on people in a step wise way to get there foot in the door to control information on a broader scale. This same method has worked in history and that is why it is used.

Also the standard of living is going DOWN down DOWN in the western country's especially, (and it's not going back up much) so when people are ready to weigh that for a moment, they may realize that when the standard of living /quality of life goes down for a extended period ..........historically (throughout civiliatons) freedoms are removed, so that a elite can maintain its power better when the potential for social unrest grows........and in it's place we may see shows like the "running man" with arnold.

And the gov't will not tell you straight what's gonig on, they don't think you can handle the truth, and they know you wouldn't be happy with it either, so they do things in round a bout ways , and use the joke of a media to push your emotional buttons to delude you into thinking there proposals and actions have merit and value.

the worst example of this today is the handling of the financial crisis. giving greedy short cited big wigs who were risky enough to get into this mess a blank check from regulators who hope to get a job as one of these big wigs next year (or already had one) and then passing down that "this is a good ..necessary thing that is required or the economy will get worse" message down thru media outlets who are dependant on the financial loans from these big financial company's and who are in charge of creating confidence in the market and want to climb the corporate latter and not make waves or whistle blow keeps the real information and motivations BLOCKED from most peope's comprehension and surely reduces the amount of protesting and rioting against these thieves. ensuring things will get worse but those in power can fight and plunder the health of the real economy to "use all tools" to "ensure there wealth is preserved" and we will continually be surprised to the "down side" and be fed lies that keep us confused and prey on our naive beliefs (that these people are good hearted, trustworthy, and care)



[edit on 5-1-2009 by cpdaman]

You also have to look at the bigger picture when it comes to government control and government power exc. A test trial for instance being done down in austrailia may be for america but be in reality tested on the public in austrailia and visa versa same thing for any other country any other place anywhere around the world.

A preposed system of controls might work on for instance the british government people but not the americans so on so forth on any issue or topic you can think of including this one. Censorship is not just limited to the media sometimes controls beyond anyone's comprehension are working even now with many people unaware of them.



Falcon

It's been tried before and failed. I just hope it fails again. It will stop nothing.

If people want to see naked children, they can go to an art gallery.

If people want to know how to make mdma or devise a bomb, they can go to a library.

If people want to look at pictures of dead bodies and gore, they can read a medical manual.

If the Aus govt. want to prove that once and for all that they are backward idiots who wouldn't know a packet if it bit them on the bum, want to ruin the internet entirely in Australia and want to make us the laughing stock (if that is even more so possible) by our standards of internet access, they can go ahead with this ignorance and censor the internet.

Sheesh, even before all this internet censorship, the idiots wanted to monitor local phone calls to find people using bulliten boards, so they could charge them a timed fee rather than the one off cost of a local call. It's been non stop here for decades.



[edit on 1/6/2009 by bloodcircle]

First a war on communism, then a war on drugs, next a war on terror and now a war on the internet content. I predict that this war will be every bit as successful as all of the other wars waged against obscure, undefinable and elusive enemies. We need our governments to protect us from things like drugs, porn and people who disagree with us.

*bump* This issue isn't getting as much attention as it deserves.

Well, well, well, things just get more interesting! Don't you see it coming folks, this "One-World-Government?" This is obvious! I mean, we know the communist countries, plus other countries have controls on what their people watch, Britain is attempting to do this, now Australia, and I am sure the United States will follow suit. We are creeping ever more closely to the "One-World-Goverment!" In other words, everyone on the same sheet of music! Communism, Socialism, and every thing which involves "controlling the masses," that is what is going on.

It is sad, for there is nowhere to run, because everyone will be a part of this, so get ready for, Communism, Socialism, Big-Brotherism, and every other "ism" to control us and keep us under their watchful eyes, and mighty thumbs.

The George Orwell societies of 1984 and Animal Farm are coming to a community near you, and SOON!!!!

~ Lonelypoet

Also, in addition to Animal Farm and 1984, does anyone remember the story, "The Lottery?" Scary stuff!

~ Lonelypoet

"Flighty," I loved your comments above about so-called filtering. It is just like Hitler did to his people in the 30's & 40's, "censorship," control the masses, so you can "rule them!" This is the idea of the NWO(New World Order)/ One-World-Government, and that is "control the people." We all ought to "rise up" and show them all who rules!!!!

Originally posted by Lonelypoet
We all ought to "rise up" and show them all who rules!!!!

Thats a great Idea, but isn't that called voting? I personaly AND HAVE kept on voting for Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party.

Originally posted by gordonwest

Thats a great Idea, but isn't that called voting? I personaly AND HAVE kept on voting for Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party.

That’s actually one of the freedoms we have lost in this country – the right to vote or not.

I should have the right to choose if I want to vote or not, but I don't have that right.

Here it’s law that we MUST vote, even if you don’t like anyone who is running, you still HAVE to vote. Not a real democracy, infact Australia in so many ways is very very far from a real democracy.

Mikey


[edit on 7/1/2009 by Mikey84]