Palestinian rocket misfires, kills 2 girls in Gaza

reply to post by Muundoggie
You could not have said it better my friend. Israel and like you point out the USA is a reality.

reply to post by Azador

Azador, here's the thing. It isn't pretty, it isn't a comforting thought, it isn't brotherly and yet it is proven without fail, since man has been fighting.

War is two sides killing each other until one side is unable to kill further, or unwilling to get killed further. There is a number that have to get killed before one side gives up. No one knows that number because the side that is going to lose will determine that number.

The more humane your approach to war, the longer that war continues without conclusion, and the greater the total death and suffering on both sides.

To be most merciful, and get the fight over with, then one must be most ruthless on the front end.

You make the up front slaughter so great that the losing side says, "no more." The war is over, and the healing can begin.

But not until one side has it's will completely broken, it's determination to continue completely crushed, and it's heart completely shattered.

That is the day that peace will come.

And not before then.

reply to post by GamerGal


sorry but, there is a good chance they aren't buying weapons, rather some one is providing them for their proxy war against israel.

Whether it is Syria, Iran, etc. somebody is PROVIDING weaponry out of THEIR pockets. I highly doubt these farmers, who were pretty poor before hand, are raising millions of dollars for bombs, machine guns, and other weaponry. Where would they be getting that money from to buy these weapons? The farms they can't access?

Somebody is always around to take advantage of the poor and dying. These people are hurting, they feel isolated, they feel abandoned. Who's a better choice to fight a war for you? Befriend them and use them. Thats what this unknown third party is doing.

Dooper, well said my friend. People live in the world of idealism lately. Some dont seem to understand that the israeli's, whether their opinion of them is for or against, will NEVER cease to maintain control of the land. No matter who israel's enemy is, they will fight to the death to keep what they have now.

reply to post by GamerGal


You'll never know how easily you would be manipulated into fighting somebody elses war until you are starving, put in camps, and left to die. The palestinians would be dead already if somebody wasn't helping them fight this "war".

Some group is behind the scenes, no doubt about it, and they are telling these extremely desperate people that this will be the only way they will ever get their old lives back.

I can't ask you the question "How far would you go when pushed?" because you have no clue. You have never been starving in a third world country, as the only home you know has been taken from you. You can't answer the question because you don't have a group of people around you telling you to do whatever you can to kill the "enemy". You haven't been torn down to nothing, stripped of your life, and brainwashed. So you don't know, nor do I expect you to.

But you should still know to use common sense. These people don't have money for anything, let alone guns. Hell, they don't even have income, they are in refugee camps.

reply to post by GamerGal


You mean a united states controlled middle east. Since without the US, Israel would be nothing more than a highlight in history. The sheer amount of money we give them a year is necessary for their continued survival.

Israel is the unofficial 51st state of the US, and you can bet the people on top know it.

If the US dropped all support of Israel it wouldn't be a US or Israeli controlled Middle East, it would be a UN controlled middle east. To control all the nuclear fall out.

Now, why aren't we suprised you would be for a US/Israeli control of the Middle East...WHEN you live in the US. That is what we call a "given".

reply to post by flashL3


It was a purposely idealist post.But you know some of us like to hope for peace for everyone even though we know its unobtainable.
You see in my ideal world there would be no time for fighting, we would all be to busy out in the surf and than going to find a feed.After that we would all gather round for a couple of beers and a yarn, than off to sleep to do it all again tomorrow.

reply to post by kozmo


Some people are so ignorant and misinformed. Try opening a history book and you might find a few facts.

1. So called Israel stealing Palestinian land? Egypt, Turks and English controlled Israel. The Palestinians were considered second-class citizens under English colonialism as well as Jordan, Turkey and Egypt. The entire notion of the Palestinian people did not exist until Yaser Arafat.
2. Israel did not occupy the Palestinians territories. After the Six day war (up till that point it was under Jordan and Egyptian control) Israel conquered those territories from Jordan and Egypt after they with Iraq and Syria started a war with Israel.
3. Israel never wanted those territories and if you look at the UN report of 1986 you will see that Palestinian quality of living was higher then any other country in the Middle East. Including Egypt and Lebanon where most Palestinians live in tents for the past 50 years.
4. Putting aside the blame game of both sides the fact of the matter is that since Hamas took control of Gaza from the PLO all they have been doing is shot rockets at Israel not interested in peace. Look at the PLO controlled territories that are actually fine with Israel and flourishing well on the way to independence. Hamas is another example of the minority of Muslim fanatics plaguing the world in terrorist attacks. India, US, London France and even Muslim countries. The problem is the Muslims have no separation of church and state, and a minority of fanatics controls the Masses. These fanatics don’t care about their population all they care about is going to heaven in the name of God.

I suppose your next line is McCaine is behind this..

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by anonymousATS

 

Weapons? Is that so?

Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Mandela didn't seem to need them.

Violence is not the answer here.

Gandhi was the leader of a clear majority of the population being supressed by a small minority.

King was murdered by a small element of the US government because he rocked the boat.

Mandela came out on top after international pressure destroyed the South African aparthied government.

Violence is the only consistant answer in the face of a criminal regime.

reply to post by kozmo


Some people are so ignorant and misinformed. Try opening a history book and you might find a few facts.

1. So called Israel stealing Palestinian land? Egypt, Turks and English controlled Israel. The Palestinians were considered second-class citizens under English colonialism as well as Jordan, Turkey and Egypt. The entire notion of the Palestinian people did not exist until Yaser Arafat.
2. Israel did not occupy the Palestinians territories. After the Six day war (up till that point it was under Jordan and Egyptian control) Israel conquered those territories from Jordan and Egypt after they with Iraq and Syria started a war with Israel.
3. Israel never wanted those territories and if you look at the UN report of 1986 you will see that Palestinian quality of living was higher then any other country in the Middle East. Including Egypt and Lebanon where most Palestinians live in tents for the past 50 years.
4. Putting aside the blame game of both sides the fact of the matter is that since Hamas took control of Gaza from the PLO all they have been doing is shot rockets at Israel not interested in peace. Look at the PLO controlled territories that are actually fine with Israel and flourishing well on the way to independence. Hamas is another example of the minority of Muslim fanatics plaguing the world in terrorist attacks. India, US, London France and even Muslim countries. The problem is the Muslims have no separation of church and state, and a minority of fanatics controls the Masses. These fanatics don’t care about their population all they care about is going to heaven in the name of God.

reply to post by GamerGal


We'll actually, Britian and europe as a whole, encouraged the mass immigration of jews to "their homeland". This was happening before ww2 even started. At the time, current day israel, formerly palestine, was barren. There really wasn't much there. The Palestinians were definately third world people.

The idea to start immigrating jews to palestine was started at the begining of the 20th century, before world war 1 had even started.

To get a better idea here, I will give you some back history. Palestine was part of the ottoman empire. Palestine had less than like a quater million people living there. When the ottoman empire fell after World War 1, palestine was official part of the british territories. Britian had promised the jews to find them a homeland. Palestine was picked before WW1 was even started.

So during the 1920's and mid 1930's, the jewish population in palestine increased 3-4 times, via illegal immigration. This huge jump in jewish population started to give way to anti semite feelings in palestine.

After this britian attempted to step in and try to keep the peace by formulating "treaties" of sorts. The first was a complete failure which tried to divide palestine mostly in favor of the arabs. The second one also failed terribly. It tried to limit the amount of jews that could settle in Palestine, the amount of land they could buy/own, etc. The jews did not except it and said they would "fight" for their land.

At this point World war 2 is starting. There are more than 750,000 Jews in Palestine now, via illegal and legal immigration.

Arabs at this point refused the idea of breaking palestine into two, and attempting to give Jews their own state in palestine became out of the question without violence. Reason being, the arabs refused to accept the idea that these jews people could move in, and suddenly be entitled to make their own state out of palestinian land.

Britian's decided to let the UN handle the issue from here on. The UN, having failed to make a proposal that both the jews and the arabs could agree on, decided to make a plan that would mandatorily split the land.

Basically, the lands were all split up and the arabs warned the UN that they would fight the jews for their land back, if the partition was passed. It was passed in the UN, and violence broke out. At this point, Eygpt holy men waged a jihad on israel.

So next the british mandate expired, and the Jews pretty much lay claim to the land, while the arab people warn to invade.

The US now decides that it is going to support israel, militarily, in case they need it. This support would be needed since Truman declared on May 14th, 1948, that jews would take full control of the new state of israel. Arab armies invade. With the help of the US, israel survives more than half a year of fighting.

From there you know the rest.

In my opinion, I dont see how the Arabs or the Jews are in the wrong. I think both have their own justifications, which sound more than reasonable in their eyes. I think the UN, US, and Britian are to blame for the poor handling of the situation (creating a jewish homeland). Had Britian handled it better, the situation way have been defused. Unfortunately, Britian decided, on its own, to make palestine the national homeland for the jewish people, when the ottoman empire collapsed after world war 1. Given palestines religious significance, I think Britian was naive to think sending all the jews there would be a good idea.

Either way, both sides have reasonable justifications for believing they are the ones who are right for fighting their own wars. The fact that the poor are being manipulated on the palestinian side is another issue entirely.

reply to post by Dracula23


You are mostly correct except for two points. They never "wanted" those territories? No, more accurate way of saying it is, they were ok with getting X, but to say they didn't want X+Y, well thats ridiculous. Israel would, in time, obviously want more land. You can only fit so many people in a small space, and last time I checked, their are alot of jewish people.

Second point is that all they care about if going to heaven in the name of god. All they care about is having a better life than they do now. When you are starving, being relocated, and treated like you don't exist, paradise and 72 virigins starts to sound pretty convincing.

I can't imagine the amount of brainwashing that goes on in Gaza. The people are easy to brainwash because they are so poor. We need to figure how whos pulling the strings and figure out how to get them out of the picture before we can ever stop the violence.

Originally posted by GamerGal

Hey, maybe they shouldn't have attacked Israel? Israel was attacked and fought back and won. Sorry if they are sore losers.

Sore losers? haha...maybe if we were playing monopoly, that nonsense might actually be well grounded. Unfortunately, in real life, "losing" often means dying via starving or disease.

Keep your attitude of "you are just being a sore loser" and their solution will be to never let the war end. You can lose if it never ends.

Lets take our approach to this situation up a couple intelligence levels.

oh for christs sakes,when will this endless tit for tat nonsense end?,its been going on across the world since the birth of civilisation!

war solves no problems,it only makes situations worse,defence is the only acceptable agression.

all the palestinians have do is stop re taliating and say "there taking our land,attacking us remove them",for at the moment the isreali side always claim "we are fighting terrorists" and so the rule of law is not implimented in thier illegal occupations and attacks for they always have an excuse to continue.

the agression on both sides is wrong,both sides target civililians which only serves to further the conflict,create hatred and division i get the impression this is the intent.

i get the distinct feelig there are elements within palestine and isreal who dont want peace,they want war,another jihad and the kingdom of zion at all costs,they want the end times,freakin loonatics,what will come after?,what world will we be left with?,the same old story,confilct and needless suffering,zion wont change anything nor will a jihad,it will just degrade humanity even more untill we see the light.

Oh and by the way, if we subscribed to the "don't be a sore loser" approach, Israel wouldn't even exist. They lost that land 2000 years ago, don't be sore losers, right? More like don't be hypocrites.

reply to post by dooper


To add to this, it seems like Israel has dealt a non fatal stab wound to Palestine and they are delaying finishing it for some reason. Thus prolonging the pain, every time Palestinians set of rockets into Israel they are literally jumping up and down on a knife that is already embedded in them.

Thats what it seems like to me anyway.

reply to post by GamerGal


When you reach that point, what other choice is there?

And Israelis don't kill kids, and pregnant women,
and the elderly, *insert-vulnerable-creature-name* ?

If I were in the Palestinian situation, I would chop up
Israelis and burn them like firewood.

.

Go to it, mode-runts.

END ZIONISM. PLEASE.

^__^

reply to post by Anjin

Personally, if someone rolled into my neighborhood, siad they now owned it, oppressed me and moved me out of my home - you had better believe that I would want to bomb the $h!t out of them!

Been there. Done that. Lost almost everything I owned. And trust me... when you run out of any legal recourse, when all your options are removed by greedy, smirking people in power, and you are literally thrown out of a city because you don't make enough money (me and I don't know how many others)- and you don't contribute to the local drug trade... Bombing does warm the recesses of my heart. 2 megatons would warm that hive of scum and villainy....

These 2 countries will be at it til the end of time. Israel threw it's own people out of a spot and gave it to Palestine (and then the prime minister suffered a stroke or somesuch), Palestine wants other land back, and they just keep beating each other up like 2 kids on a playground fighting over lunch money. And while there's conflict on both sides- I'd say the whole mess is actually in a sort of balance... In it's own horrible, twisted way.

If something upsets that balance.. will it be for better, or far worse........