Palestinian rocket misfires, kills 2 girls in Gaza

Oh boy, still at it, are we? Since this has been a 14 page thread that could be summed in 3 posts (and this will be my last contribution to it), I'm gonna sum it up for everyone so that they can claim the hour of their lives that they would lose by reading the whole thing... Thank me later.

Gamergal said, *** SNIP! Straw Man argument removed. ***







Mod edit: Stay on topic and refrain from mischaracterizing the opinions of other members. They can speak for themselves. -- Majic

[edit on 12/25/2008 by Majic]

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
reply to post by neformore

 

Well, I do know that Muslims accept him as a prophet, and several sects of Jews do as well.

But just so we're clear, we are talking about the same Jesus who said "I am the way, the light and the Truth. The Alpha and Omega." right? You know, the guy who is being all exclusive by saying that "No man cometh unto the Father except through me". That means Christianity is the only way to salvation.

Pretty sure that we were discussing Arab and Israeli, and on a larger scale Muslim and Jewish conflict, I think its a bit insensitive of you to throw in a Christian comment like that. I mean who are we to think that these groups must adhere to a Christian set of values. Sounds a little egotistical and non religiously tolerant to me

Well those Jews that accept Jesus are Christians. Islam is a subsequent religion to Christianity and incorporates more than 80% of the Christian faith.

Your quotes: "I am the way, the light and the Truth. The Alpha and Omega." "No man cometh unto the Father except through me".


Which versions of the Bible are you referring too. King James, New King James, English Standard or the New American Standard?

The NKJ version I have gives those words in a contextual sermon conducted by Jesus as reported by two apostles. I have no argument with that and consider it true but it does not negate the message of the prophet Mohamed. This message was that the only relationship with the one true God is between Him and the faithful person. There is not interlocutor only God and a person.

While we Muslims accept Christianity as a true religion, Christians don't have to accept us; there is no compulsion in faith.

Only thing is, do not try and diminish the importance of Jesus to Muslims by saying that he is just a prophet. It is ignorant and offensive.

[edit on 093131p://am3121 by masonwatcher]

You report (19 December) that the Foreign Office is to warn against the purchase of property in the "occupied territories". The government has no legal basis for its oft-repeated assertion that the settlements are "illegal under international law". The Geneva convention cannot apply to most of the "occupied territories" because they have never been recognised as sovereign territory. As part of Mandatory Palestine, Judea and Samaria never belonged to any sovereign state, but were occupied and administered illegally by Jordan and Egypt between 1948 and 1967, after the Arab war of aggression against Israel in 1948. And East Jerusalem was captured by Jordan in the war of 1948. Moreover, the Geneva convention was designed to prohibit the forcible transfer of population into occupied territories, such as was practised by the Nazis and USSR before and during the second world war. But the Israeli settlers in the West Bank made a free choice to move there. And as a country that was attacked, Israel is entirely within its legal rights to retain territory that continues to be used as a base for attacks against it. By raising unrealistic expectations, much of the current rhetoric from the UK government risks encouraging extremists. Israel has proved that it wants peace - by negotiating peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan - and is prepared to give up land, by withdrawing from Gaza. In the midst of the Annapolis peace process, the government must support the voices of moderation and not those of extremism. Jonathan Hoffman Vice-chairman, Zionist Federation

www.guardian.co.uk...

The argument put by Jonathan Hoffman goes thusly; Because Palestinians have never formed a modern state in the European model, they are exempt from the protection of the Geneva Convention, therefore, Israel is within its rights to do as it wills against Palestinians.

The Geneva Conventions attempts to protect human rights and minimise human suffering in situations of conflict and occupation. Palestinian have human rights as articulated in all known national constitutions recognising this condition, as defined in Thomas Paine's Rights of Man, the Nuremberg articles, the United Nations constitution, World Court, as in most religions and of course as found in basic ethics.

Nevertheless, Jonathan Hoffman seeks to divorce this recognitions from the Palestinians based on technicalities involving defined national jurisdictions. Either this man is operating under some unknown and alien concept of ethics or humanity or he is aiming to facilitate Israel's activities regarding the Palestinians in a moral vacuum. He is proposing that the world accept this moral detour based on sophistic arguments.

reply to post by masonwatcher


Pallywood does exist! In fact you say Jenin proves the Jews are evil but... "We’ve seen reports of massacres, as in Jenin in 2002, that turned out, after independent investigation, to have been greatly exaggerated" it was just more Pallywood. Also, when all facts show you're wrong, just call me a troll like the rest of the Pally lovers.

Final Warning

Myself and other members of the staff have repeatedly called for civility and respect for the topic in this thread. That means no personal attacks, no off-topic sniping and no trolling in the form of mischaracterizing the positions of other members.

Those who are willing and able to focus on the topic -- Dozens of militant rockets barrage southern Israel -- are quite welcome to do so whatever their points of view on the issue may be.

Those who insist on repeatedly violating the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use and ignoring staff instructions may find the following link useful:

If You Have Been Post Banned...

The ability to discuss controversial issues without distraction or derailment is a core value of ATS. Anyone incapable of understanding this has no business posting in these forums.

This is a final warning.

Please Stay On Topic.

Call me crazy but wan't Israel, called Israel since 66 AD?? The name Palestine didn't come till much later.

reply to post by Mel357


Now now, you have to ignore history. You also have to ignore the present as the Pallies fire missiles in to Israel as we speak. The Pallies are the good guys, the Jews and thier evil babies that are being blown up are the bad guys and should all be exterminated.

reply to post by GamerGal


The thing is that both Israel and the Palastinians engage in propaganda. The American media being pro Israel you're not going to get all the truth. You've got to seek out alternative outlets to get to it. You'll find that Israel is hardly innocent in these matters.

[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad:

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.

www.palestinecenter.org...

With a mentality that no peace initiative will work and that jihad is the only way, How do you expect Israel to stop the barrage of rockets launched into their territory or terrorist attacking them?

Hamas clearly shows that they do not want peace. They even ran fatah out of Gaza. That is why Abbas is in the West Bank. There is a rift between both Hamas and Fatah. Hamas has its own agenda and its people are suffering cause of it.

reply to post by Mel357


whilst the Eretz Yisrael *land of israel* as a concept has been `around` for millenia and is of course mentioned in the hebrew bible , it was only the british mandate of palestine from 1920 >1948 laid the ground work for `the promised land (again from the hebrew bible) to be realised.

now the zionists , who were only a small protion of the jews , but the most militant are the ones who shaped israel as we know it today - and ask any israeli - they want peace and quiet , but with `tit for tat` attacks this likely wont happen for many years.


peace nearly broke out before.

Originally posted by jam321

[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad:

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.

www.palestinecenter.org...

With a mentality that no peace initiative will work and that jihad is the only way, How do you expect Israel to stop the barrage of rockets launched into their territory or terrorist attacking them?

Hamas clearly shows that they do not want peace. They even ran fatah out of Gaza. That is why Abbas is in the West Bank. There is a rift between both Hamas and Fatah. Hamas has its own agenda and its people are suffering cause of it.

Hmmm! "Palestinian problem" let me say that out loud. Doesn't flow right and has that zionist zing about it.

Now back to Earth; why would a Palestinian suddenly declare their struggle as a "Palestinian problem". Sound too zionisty a phrase so I surmise that the link to the site you plugged is a disinformation website made by a person who cannot distinguish vernacularisms. You see, it is you zionists who describe the Palestinians as a 'problem'. Most Palestinians are perfectly happy existing.

It could also mean that the writer is a Israeli sayanim that has infiltrated a genuine Palestinian organisation.

[edit on 023131p://pm3119 by masonwatcher]

Originally posted by Mel357
Call me crazy but wan't Israel, called Israel since 66 AD?? The name Palestine didn't come till much later.

No I will not call you crazy but Palestine pre-dates the Israelites and were known to the ancients such as the Egyptians and Greeks. Herodotus, the Greek historian wrote of them.

Regardless, those early Israelites have very little to do with European Askhenazim who are converts. The early Israelites' descendants are amongst the Palestinians of today and not the Europeans of central and eastern Europe that arrived in 1948.

reply to post by masonwatcher


I could give you a million sites and you will find fault with every one of them as long as it doesn't go along with your view.

Fatah–Hamas conflict

en.wikipedia.org...

Palestinian rivals: Fatah & Hamas

news.bbc.co.uk...

Fatah, Hamas rift widens amid new violence

www.csmonitor.com...

Nabil Abu Rudeina, a spokesman for Abbas, criticised Hamas, saying: "Hamas carries the responsibility for the failure of the Cairo dialogue and the responsibility for losing the opportunity to regain Palestinian unity and stop the division between Palestinians."

english.aljazeera.net...


Zionist zing, yeah right.

reply to post by masonwatcher


I need to point out that less than half of all Jews in Israel are Ashkenazim and out of those Ashkenazim at least 40% can be verified a genetically Semitic.

Now many people know already that the Jews and Arabs are brothers, Sons of Abraham. Now what if the Palestinians are even closer to Israel?

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese
www.sciencedaily.com...

What I wonder is if the Palestinians are in fact sons of Esau, Edomites? Or even better yet what if they are actually Israelites?

I think the same genetic research done on the Ashkenazim linking them to the matriarchs should be done to the Palestinians.

How quick would the fighting stop if the Palestinians were shown to be of Israelite descent?

reply to post by GamerGal

Er...Whose occupying whose country here?....

The problem is not whether or not some share the same blood.

Islam demands Jihad until worship in all the world is for Allah alone. The Jews used to laugh and make fun of Muhammed, and even told him how fortunate it was that he found an ignorant people.

Think about it. If there is peace, then Hamas, Hizballah, and all these militant agitators are out of work. Remember the warlord Aidid in Somalia? He had the gangsters with the weapons, no hesitation to kill, and so he controlled the money and food.

Same with these clowns in Gaza, except they can sell their line of crap as the gate of Paradise are under the swords of war.

So they can recruit all the lazy idiot who don't want to actually have to do any work, and direct them in the ongoing attacks.

The senior religious militant leaders aren't stupid enough to fall for their own line of BS. You'll note that they never strap on a vest and show the others how it's done.

No. They talk other fools into their actions. While they keep and control the millions in aid to Gaza, sock it away in Swiss bank accounts, and continue to recruit young idiots, they can still watch their own people do without many of the normal necessities that the rest of the civilized world enjoy.

It's all about Jihad.

I now hope that Gaza gets all the Jihad they ever dreamed of.

reply to post by masonwatcher


On the issue of Jews accepting Christ, not all of those are Christians. Some believe he was a prophet much like Abraham. The only way that they could be true Christians is if they believed he was the Messiah.


As for your statements about Islam, fair enough and thanks for the education on your beliefs. I don't know if this is true for all Muslims or your sect, but believe I will be doing my research on it. Cheers to you brother!




[edit on 26-12-2008 by midnightbrigade]

Originally posted by dooper
The problem is not whether or not some share the same blood.

Islam demands Jihad until worship in all the world is for Allah alone. The Jews used to laugh and make fun of Muhammed, and even told him how fortunate it was that he found an ignorant people.

Think about it. If there is peace, then Hamas, Hizballah, and all these militant agitators are out of work. Remember the warlord Aidid in Somalia? He had the gangsters with the weapons, no hesitation to kill, and so he controlled the money and food.

Same with these clowns in Gaza, except they can sell their line of crap as the gate of Paradise are under the swords of war.

So they can recruit all the lazy idiot who don't want to actually have to do any work, and direct them in the ongoing attacks.

The senior religious militant leaders aren't stupid enough to fall for their own line of BS. You'll note that they never strap on a vest and show the others how it's done.

No. They talk other fools into their actions. While they keep and control the millions in aid to Gaza, sock it away in Swiss bank accounts, and continue to recruit young idiots, they can still watch their own people do without many of the normal necessities that the rest of the civilized world enjoy.

It's all about Jihad.

I now hope that Gaza gets all the Jihad they ever dreamed of.

The Jews in Arabia tried to stitch Mohammed just like Jesus but instead of turning the other cheek he gave them a lick of their own medicine. Those people you describe as ignorant were the neighbours of the Jews at the time. Do you call you American neighbours ignorant too?

You are merely throwing around half baked ideas and a collection of standard zionist slander. Jihad means struggle or effort in Arabic, not some cabalistic zionist style coordination.

"...swords of war.." absolutely a nonsensical contrivance by a zionist. Biblesque terms like that are what Israelis are experts at; Samson Option, the Kidon assassins (bayonet), etc.

The rest of your comments are unintelligible drivel, just seepage from your zionist pyschy. You also throw in General Aidid of Somalia, an unrelated matter for my benefit. Kiss my ***.

You zionist are decrepit and panicking. How long do you think that you can pull the wool over the eyes of American people while you rob the national wealth? One of the biggest donors to Israel happens to be Madoff who has squirrelled away anything from $50 to $100 billion. How many other zionists made off with America's wealth? I understand $2.3 trillions disappeared under Dov Zakheim's watch, former Pentagon Comptroller.

The cleptocratic bandit state of Israel has a long reach, only it is reaching so far it knows a tipping point is arriving hence the coordinated campaign of censorship and the strangulation of free speech by the ADL and other agencies of foreign interests.

Jihad my backside! That's just wool for our eyes.

[edit on 063131p://am3132 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by GamerGal


Sounds like another false flag terror attack to justify military intervention with Israel's enemies. Come on, how dumb do they think we are? Dozen's of rockets and mortor rounds launched, and not a single soul killed or even hurt? Governments throughout history(including our own) have been caught over and over staging false flag terror attacks against their own populations in order to accomplish the political, military, and economic agenda's of the elite minority. Operation Northwoods is probably one of the most fascinating historical documents that reveals the levels of depravity and deception that despicalbe "elites" will go to in their quest for unrivaled world domination. History doesn't lie, I suggest you research Operation Northwoods and find the truth for yourself if you haven't already heard of it. This Israel attack story stinks. I'll have to do more research to see if it is actually legit. If someone steals my land and shelter, I guess the best thing for me to do is let them do it to me. Let them have their way with me and rape me. Who need's the right to bear arms? The founding fathers of the constitution should have left that out because we as citizen's of the United States are supposed to be dependant sheep who believe everything they are told. We can depend on the government to protect us, just like we can depend on them to fix our economic crisis with the trillions handed over to them like they promised they would do. Oh, that's right, Obama is calling for another trillion that will be tacked onto the deficit to be repaied with interest. Government is good and does no wrong. God bless Alex Jones as we learn of the new slave grid system that is falling into place.