Homosexuality indeed a psychological thing...?

First aand foremost I am compelled to ask for serious conversation here only please! I don't want to hear a lot of "gay bashing" or anything along those lines, I am rather curious how people who are homosexuals view the origins of their choice. Are they indeed "born that way"? Or is is troubled pasts?

I implore that only serious conversation here should exsist.

This is a very hot subject in the media at this point. I know quite a few people that choose a relationship with those of the same sex as themselves, this does not effect me. It's just like someone's religious allignment to me... It doesn't matter. But I will not allow one of my threads to become a shooting gallery (well, at least not THIS one ).

Originally posted by Jkd Up I am rather curious how people who are homosexuals view the origins of their choice...I know quite a few people that choose a relationship with those of the same sex as themselves

Just to get the ol' thread rolling, I'm quite unabashedly straight, but I think I can assure you that the word that will cause the most chatter is "choice".

One's sexual orientation is not a choice. The only choice is whether or not to act upon the most primal urges that we are programmed with. When you see holy men having difficulty sublimating their urge for sex (and this pre-supposes that Catholic priests don't enter the church for reasons of their sexuality), then that merely demonstrates the depth of this very human need.

Also, the nature of this discussion pre-supposes that sex outside of procreation is bad. And quite frankly, I call shenanigans on that concept. Bottom line, sexual orientation is normally hard wired. Bigotry against homosexuality is psychological.

Let the war of words begin...

I don't really know what you're hoping to find out. I'm not gay, but I do know that there's a controversy about whether or not people choose it or are born to it. I don't think it's been conclusively scientifically proven either way, so you're certainly not going to get the definitive answer here.

I personally don't care if it's a choice (which I don't believe) or biological. I don't care whether it's from a past experience or not. I believe in love. And to be perfectly honest, and I have told my husband this, if he were a woman, I think I still would have fallen in love with him. Because it's the PERSON he is that I love. The fact that he's of the opposite gender really has very little to do with my feelings for him. He's that cool.

I actually think we should get away from trying to figure the origin of homosexuality. We don't try to figure out why people are heterosexual. In searching for the REASON, it seems to me we're searching for a "cure" or "treatment", and such things disgust me.

I think the answer lies in acceptance. In throwing away the judgments about homosexuality, and whether it's psychological or biological or whatever, and accepting it as a valid way to be, REGARDLESS. Of course, I don't have expectations that we'll get there real soon, but I still have hope that one day, as a society, we'll get there.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck



Thank you for starting it off in the manner I had hoped this would go. I, as well, am straight, but I wonder why some people I know choose their orientation. So, without hurting their feelings or making them feel uncomfortable... I have ATS!
Thanks!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't really know what you're hoping to find out. I'm not gay, but I do know that there's a controversy about whether or not people choose it or are born to it. I don't think it's been conclusively scientifically proven either way, so you're certainly not going to get the definitive answer here.

Well, we haven't conclusivly prooven the exsistance of reptilians here either. This is a conversation. Nothing more. Trying to get a point of view from people directly effected.

If you wanted to know about alien abduction you'd ask researches and people who believed they were abducted.

That is all I am doing here... Only my topic is on the presented subject.

I agree with the church, that it is spirtual. So you must be right in a way.

Of course we will not know the truth though.

I don't think you're going to find many gay people who think they have a choice in the matter.

I agree with Benevolent Heretic that trying to figure out "why" people are that way is not all that productive. I think it's probably mostly if not completely genetic, but can be repressed because of intolerance in some cases. I know that every gay I've talked to about discovering they were gay talks about it as something that was there from the moment sexual awareness was there.

Some of them tried to ignore it, tried to be with lots of women to see if that would make it go away, some even got married and had kids. But they talk about knowing that they were living a lie.

It makes sense that way. I know I never put any thought into what kind of men I'm attracted to. I can choose what kind of men I'm with, or even choose to be celibate, but that's all later thinking, the attraction happens (or doesn't) without thought.

As far as priests go, I'm sure that some men seek refuge in the celibacy of the priesthood because they are so afraid of their sexuality (homo- or hetero-) or just of intimacy and family life. But the catholic church tries very hard to screen people who are trying to run away from regular life rather than towards a calling. The pedophilic priests who make the news (please note that they are not gay, they are pedophiles) have committed terrible abuses and betrayals of trust. But as a percent of the catholic clergy that's a small number.

Originally posted by andy1033
I agree with the church, that it is spirtual. So you must be right in a way.

Of course we will not know the truth though.

Your sexual orientation is spiritual?

Ask people who are attracted to the same sex and I'm sure one will tell you they had never really liked the other sex like the other kids did during childhood. That it just felt wrong to be with the other sex.

Imagine if the norm was same sex relations and you liked the opposite sex and were expected to like the same sex.

Having people grow up in a way which shows they are different from the norm as above would suggest to me that it is not a choice.

Perhaps, as was raised in another thread, the "gene" or whatever is behind same sex orientation as opposed to opposite sex orientation is stimulated as a form of population control or for some other purpose.

Either way, I think predominantly it is NOT a choice, and the ones with the choice are the exception.

It IS a choice to act on the ingrained sexual desire. But how that got there in terms of same sex and opposite sex attraction is NOT the persons decision.



P.S the hate is motivated by religion and probably, like the other thread here on ATS, those who believed it was a choice were motivated purely by religion. That much was obvious.

Not it is most definetly not a choice,just as much as for me to find a woman attractive.Its biological,we have the choice whether or not to indulge on these biological urges but thats a different matter entirely.

Either you're gay or you're not. It's not a choice.

When you hit puberty did you make a choice to date people of the same sex or opposite sex?

Same goes for gay people.

I never cease to wonder why sexuality should even be an issue to be discussed about. It's like debating why one person likes yellow while another likes blue, there doesn't have to be a reason. It doesn't have to be explained.

Originally posted by Jkd Up
I, as well, am straight, but I wonder why some people I know choose their orientation.

I think that this is where you are getting confused. You keep thinking it is a "choice." Who in their right mind would choose a life of alienation, bigotry, and discrimination? If it were simply a choice, I know that there would be very few homosexuals.

I know that this question is a bit of a cliche, however, I think that it is quite relevant when examining this issue. Ask yourself, "When did I CHOOSE my sexual orientation?" If you can think of a time when you personally made a conscious choice to be heterosexual, then I think it is fair that you continue to believe that others choose their sexual orientation. However, if you cannot recollect a time when you consciously made this decision, you need to concede that no one consciously decides which sexual orientation is best for them.

Please let me know what conclusion you come to.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by BluegrassRevolutionary]

I'm a long time reader of ATS, but this is the first post I have ever made, so I hope that you understand that you actually got me compelled to post!

I am a gay man. I grew up in a very upper middle class Italian-Irish Catholic family in the south. I went to private schools and had about as an ideal "leave it to beaver" type of childhood anybody could ask for. Great Neighborhood, big house, big family, lots of siblings and parents who just celebrated their 54th wedding anniversary. To say I had it "good" is a massive understatement. I am only mentioning all of that, because you were curious if certain life-trauma may be a factor... well, I had the exact opposite, so I hope that bit of information helps make my point. I had NO TRAUMA in my life... In fact I had it better than most people I know.

I was a very likable and popular guy in high-school and college, and had lots of girlfriends. I didn't "come out" until my thirties, because the older I got the more I realized that something was missing and I just could not see myself committing to marriage with a woman. I had some amazing relationships with women, it just didn't feel like it was "right" for me. When I started to act on my feelings of homosexuality... it all just sort of fell into place for me. It was the right course of action for myself and I am 100% comfortable being a gay man. I can now totally see myself settling down with another man and getting married one day, whereas, I could never make that commitment to a woman. It's just the way I'm wired. I had NO OTHER REASON to be gay, except for the "call of nature". I am actually very straight-acting and my attitude to life is very middle ground "normal". I feel very comfortable saying that you would never know I was gay unless I told you. But, being gay is something I have chosen NOT to hide in my life. If I talk about my relationships I mention my boyfriend just as casually as you would your girlfriend... It's just not an issue to me anymore, because I feel totally normal.

So, I hope that this helps dispel the notion that people have a choice. I'm gay, because that's the way I was born. And I am much better person for being who I was MEANT to be... and not hiding my true self.

ON a very Un-ATS Side Note: None of my friends have shunned me nor has my "very catholic family" stopped loving me. My life is pretty much the same. My family has embraced my partner and even though it goes against their religion (I'm a scientist at heart... and not very religious), they still love me and want me to be happy. So, to the haters of the catholic faith... not ALL catholics are evil. My family and friends are proof of how ANYBODY with an open mind can overcome certain religious beliefs to choose love over hate.

I hope this helps some of you understand the complexity of this issue, keep an open mind and stop trying to categorize homosexuality. It's as complicated an issue as any heterosexual dynamic you will ever come across.

Happy Holidays. I thoroughly enjoy being an ATS reader and I look forward to contributing much more next year.

Homosexuality IS biologically based to some degree. Among many others, There are studies showing that gay men's hands tend to resemble the shape of women's, and lesbian's hands tend to resemble men's. That was quite interesting to me.

While it might result from something being "wrong" with the brain I do not think it is worth classing as a disorder.

Although I would call Transgenderism a disorder. The mental and physical gender are mismatched, which I think we should think about as a birth defect that should be no more reflected upon the individual's morality than someone who is autistic or down's syndromed.

Personally I don't think that sexuality is a "psychological" thing. I'm going to admit right here and how that I am bi-sexual. I never chose it and I knew it at a young age. I can't choose who I find attractive or not, rather I am simply attractive. I don't find every single person on the planet attractive.

For me, it's more like I see everyone as a soul with a body. I am attracted to the soul of a person rather than their genitalia.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


Interesting! Thank you for your post! That is a unique and (as of thusfar) unheard of response.

So it is not aobt the gender... More the person and who they are, naturally you are not gagued only by looks, but I am sure they hold some desire as well (I am assuming).

Like many so young guys I played Doctors & Nurses. And like many guys I also played Doctors & Doctors. I'd reckon up to 50% guys have had a same-sex encounter at some point in their lives (if they're being honest with themselves), but for most it's simply part of growing up.

I know which way I swing. There's no choice whatever.

Why are there so many threads on ATS about homosexuality ? And so many straight OP's desperately trying to understand how gay people tick ? It's all a little bit queer.

reply to post by Niall197


Thank you for bringing that up! I had not thought of that. It is true that at some point (acording to psycologists and people more scholared than I) a majority of men have been in a same sex situation.

This could indeed shed light on the subject at hand. Thank you for that valuable input!

reply to post by Jkd Up


Well, regarding looks: I can say "Oh that person is pretty/good looking" or something to that degree. However, whether or not I think you're pretty or good looking doesn't effect the possible relationship I could have with said person. Whether I'm talking about a purely platonic relationship or otherwise.

I guess i'll add my .02

I'm gay and it is most definately not a choice, i've never been attracted to the opposite sex, i may look at a woman and think, oh she's pretty but I don't go 'Damn, I would like to get her in bed'. It's nothing like that, I live in Alabama, a very conservative part, and I tried so badly to fit in, having long term heterosexual relationships, denying my homosexuality to myself, I even had sex with a woman just to see if it would trigger some sort of desire for women that was not showing itself. Then finally I came to terms with it. I was gay, so I told my parents, and they reacted horribly, but still loved me. I ended up dropping out of school in 10th grade because I was litterally getting the # beat out of me just because of my sexual orientation.

I used to lay in bed throughout my teen years beggin God to change me, i cursed him for making me this way. I don't see how anyone could say it's a choice to be this way, it's a lot harder than alot of people think, just being gay.

Eventually I embraced it, i'm glad im gay, I love men, the male body, attitutde etc.

Never fell in love with a female, never thought of them in that way, they make good best friends but that's about it.

You don't choose who to fall in love with, or who you are attracted to. It just happens.

I think it is a choice. We all have our preferance to what type of person we find attractive.

Some men like big women.
Some men like White women.
Some men like Asian women.
Some men like Black women.
Some men like petite women.
Some men like well endowed women.
Some women like men in touch with their femine side.
Some women like men who are masculine.
Some women like big men.
Some women like men who are physically in shape.
Some women like men who are very smart.
Some women like men who are well endowed.
Some women like men of average size.

Then you have.

Men who like men and women who like women.

If you group homosexuals with straight people then you would have to say that they choose to like the person of the same sex.

Unless of course you think that everyone in my first list was born to like the person they choose to sleep with and/or marry.