Farm Subsidies That Kill

Our compassion may be well meant, but it is also hypocritical. The U.S., Europe and Japan spend $350 billion each year on agricultural subsidies (seven times as much as global aid to poor countries), and this money creates gluts that lower commodity prices and erode the living standard of the world's poorest people.

''These subsidies are crippling Africa's chance to export its way out of poverty,'' said James Wolfensohn, the World Bank president, in a speech last month.

Mark Malloch Brown, the head of the United Nations Development Program, estimates that these farm subsidies cost poor countries about $50 billion a year in lost agricultural exports. By coincidence, that's about the same as the total of rich countries' aid to poor countries, so we take back with our left hand every cent we give with our right.

''It's holding down the prosperity of very poor people in Africa and elsewhere for very narrow, selfish interests of their own,'' Mr. Malloch Brown says of the rich world's agricultural policy.

It also seems a tad hypocritical of us to complain about governance in third-world countries when we allow tiny groups of farmers to hijack billion of dollars out of our taxes

Farm Subsidies That Kill

Farm subsidies have done nothing but make a few large farms even richer while starving, impoverishing the people of africa.

Trade policies in the developed world make things worse for Africans growing the few crops that can be exported, such as peanuts, cotton, sugar, and cocoa. High tariffs in the developed world discourage such imports, while huge farm subsidies in the U.S., Europe, and Japan allow farmers there to undercut prices in Africa.

Trade liberalization in the developed world for agricultural goods could add $5 billion to Africa's yearly income, according to some estimates. "Those subsidies make it much more difficult for African farmers to compete with European and American farmers," says one of the report's authors, Mark W. Rosegrant, an agricultural economist.

Africa's 200 Million Empty Plates

$5 Billion dollars may not seem like alot to a first world economy. But for a third world economy, the effect would be on the scale of what China has been able to do in the last couple of years. And guess what? We would also benefit from much lower food prices at the grocery store. Our poor would also be helped a great deal with lower prices.

The collective effect of American farm policies is to depress the income of agricultural producers worldwide, exacerbating poverty in areas, such as sub-Saharan Africa and Central Asia, where people are heavily dependent on agriculture.

The frustration and despair caused by these policies undermine American security. Many people who depend on agriculture for their survival, both as a source of nourishment and a means of acquiring wealth, perceive U.S. farm policy as part of an anti-American narrative in which Washington wants to keep the rest of the world locked in poverty. Indeed, in a survey of anti-American sentiment around the world, the Pew Research Center found a majority of respondents in more than a dozen countries were convinced that U.S. farm and trade policies increased the "poverty gap" worldwide. These sentiments transcended geographic, ethnic, or religious boundaries. In such an environment, terrorist ringleaders find fertile ground for their message of hate and violence.

Nicholas Stern, chief economist at the World Bank, is blunt about America's leadership role. "It is hypocritical to preach the advantages of free trade and free markets," Stern told the U.N. publication Africa Recovery, "and then erect obstacles in precisely those markets in which developing countries have a comparative advantage."

Six Reasons to Kill Farm Subsidies and Trade Barriers (Highly recommend reading this article)

I would like everyone to read at least one of the articles posted and comment on why you think we should or should not keep farm subsidies.

I see them screwing farms over here as well.It is for corporate gains in my opinion.If its not that then maybe they are trying to starve us.The only way it makes sense is to say its for money.Its greed.

Great Post!

We should "grow baby grow!"

The corporations are so worried about profit (their bonuses) that they have no problem letting people starve.

Don't Forget about GURT & VGURT (terminator seeds) which I believe is / will become the "humanitarian crime" of this century.


Just for information:
"GURT is a genetically engineered technique whereby farmers would be forced to turn to their seed supplier each harvest to get new seeds. The seeds would only produce one harvest. After that the seeds from that harvest would commit ‘suicide’ and be unusable. There has been much hue and cry, correctly so, that this process, patented ‘suicide’ seeds, officially termed GURTs (Genetic Use Restriction Technologies), is a threat to poor farmers in developing countries like India or Brazil, who traditionally save their own seeds for the next planting. In fact, GURTs, more popularly referred to as Terminator seeds for the brutal manner in which they kill off plant reproduction possibilities, is a threat to the food security as well of North America, Western Europe, Japan and anywhere Monsanto and its elite cartel of GMO agribusiness partners enters a market.” www.globalresearch.ca...

There are conceptually two types of GURT.

1. v-GURT.
This type of GURT produces sterile seeds meaning that a farmer that had purchased seeds containing v-GURT technology could not save the seed from this crop for future planting. This would not have an immediate impact on the large number of farmers who use hybrid seeds, as they do not produce their own planting seeds, & instead buy specialized hybrid seeds from seed production companies. The technology is restricted at the plant variety level - hence the term v-GURT. Manufacturers of genetically enhanced crops would use this technology to protect their products from unauthorised use.
2. t-GURT.
A second type of GURT modifies a crop in such a way that the genetic enhancement engineered into the crop does not function until the crop plant is treated with a chemical that is sold by the biotechnology company. Farmers can save seeds for use each year. However, they do not get to use the enhanced trait in the crop unless they purchase the activator compound. The technology is restricted at the trait level - hence the term t-GURT.
www.globalresearch.ca...

Monsanto Sues Midwest Farmers for Saving Soybean Seeds
www.organicconsumers.org...

www.organicconsumers.org...

Monsanto is very determined to defend its position that farmers must buy new seed of its patented genetically modified crops each year. Monsanto has built a whole department to enforce its seed patents and licensing agreements. It has 75 employees and an annual budget of $10 million.

An estimated 400 farmers have received threats of legal action from Monsanto over alleged patent infringement www.keepmainefree.org...

In order to help police these "seed pirates," Monsanto sends inspectors out into the fields to spy on farmers, and encourages farmers to spy on each other, appealing to their competitive Achilles heels in a make-or-break business.

Monsanto also breeds into its seeds bacteria that can only be defeated by Monsanto's own herbicides. No one knows what the long-term effects of such genetic tampering may be, but concerns are being raised that these will lead to the evolution of pesticide-resistant "super-bugs," in much the same manner that we are now vulnerable to antibiotic-resistant bacterial infections due to the overuse of antibiotic www.berkshireweb.com...


This crap is cross-pollinating with "normal" crops... know what happens? Spies come out to farmers fields and if traces of their crap have cross pollinated with your crops... THEY SUE YOU because their "patented technology" has mixed with your crop!

In other words.. buy our stuff or starve. And you know some sick bastard would love this technology to cross pollinate with ALL food crops and then you can only grow food with that "special" chemical or new seeds controlled by these corporations or governments. God knows what this is going to do to the food supply..... this is a true "crime against humanity"

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
I see them screwing farms over here as well.It is for corporate gains in my opinion.If its not that then maybe they are trying to starve us.The only way it makes sense is to say its for money.Its greed.

I agree. I really don't think anyone can be this ignorant. These politicians have been told time and time again that subsidies are bad in every which way. They have the exact opposite effect of their intent. John McCain said he was against subsidies in the early primaries and got burned hard for it. The only way I can see them rationalizing to continue to support farm subsidies is because it gets votes from the ignorant masses when they say "we've gotta help out the family farms," when in point of fact, they do nothing of the sort and actually kill of small farmers. The only people that benefit from subsidies are the few large farms who use their lawyer power to grab as much money as they can.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

reply to post by infolurker


Sorry but I don't agree with anything you posted here. My brother works at Monsanto and has been working there for quite a few years. He has worked himself way up in management and flies to St.Louis quite often. Anyways my suggestion to you is go to farmers who use Monsanto's seeds and ask them why they use them. You will get a very different answer than what you currently believe.

There is a reason why companies like Monsanto keep growing every year. It's because people want their product. Third world countries have benefitted the most. Their crops use alot less herbicide and pesticide and have a much much higher yield than traditional farming.

It really is a shame that some third world dictators want their populations to starve by blocking this new technology because where ever these seeds have been made available, they are a huge success and everyone benefits from it.

These biotech companies have been nearly successful in creating drought proof crops. They can make crops that grow in just about any situation and use less water, less fertilizer, less pesticides etc. These are exactly what kind of crops the third world wants and needs. Without these hightech crops, they lose much of their crops to pests and weeds.

Please take the time to read this article:Honduras Embraces GM Crops

And please stay on topic. This thread is about policy, not technology.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


Mind doing me a favor and asking your brother to publish copies of every test Monsanto has done on the effect their GM seeds have on humans in the long term?

That would be newsworthy considering that they have refused to publish ALL of their test results. Specifically, the results of the human tests involving their Roundup Ready Tomato seeds.

Could you also ask him to post the business model in which they intend to follow with the use of their Terminator Corn seeds?

Thanks in advance.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by Government Cheese]

Originally posted by Government Cheese
reply to post by Cool Hand Luke

 

Mind doing me a favor and asking your brother to publish copies of every test Monsanto has done on the effect their GM seeds have on humans in the long term?

Once again... this is off topic but I will answer your question. GM crops are one of the most rigorously tested products on this planet. By the way, how much of the "organic" foods market is tested? As far as effects on humans go, well you have probably been eating it for the last fifteen years. Are you growing a third ear yet?

That would be newsworthy considering that they have refused to publish ALL of their test results. Specifically, the results of the human tests involving their Roundup Ready Tomato seeds.

Really? You know that before any of their seeds go on the market they are vigorously tested by a vast amount of private and public organizations. The question I ask you, what results have you read about Round up ready tomato seeds that are a cause for concern? Then I would ask you how credible your source is.

Could you also ask him to post the business model in which they intend to follow with the use of their Terminator Corn seeds?

I can't speak for them, so here is their answer.

Now could we please get back on topic. If you have a gripe with monsanto please start your own thread and talk about the issues you have with GM crops.

This thread is about government policy with regards to farm subsidies and trade policies. Please read the OP.

Cool Hand Luke-

I started the thread, perhaps you could answer some questions in it.

Link to thread

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
reply to post by infolurker

 

Sorry but I don't agree with anything you posted here. My brother works at Monsanto and has been working there for quite a few years. He has worked himself way up in management and flies to St.Louis quite often. Anyways my suggestion to you is go to farmers who use Monsanto's seeds and ask them why they use them. You will get a very different answer than what you currently believe.

There is a reason why companies like Monsanto keep growing every year. It's because people want their product. Third world countries have benefitted the most. Their crops use alot less herbicide and pesticide and have a much much higher yield than traditional farming.

It really is a shame that some third world dictators want their populations to starve by blocking this new technology because where ever these seeds have been made available, they are a huge success and everyone benefits from it.

These biotech companies have been nearly successful in creating drought proof crops. They can make crops that grow in just about any situation and use less water, less fertilizer, less pesticides etc. These are exactly what kind of crops the third world wants and needs. Without these hightech crops, they lose much of their crops to pests and weeds.

Please take the time to read this article:Honduras Embraces GM Crops

And please stay on topic. This thread is about policy, not technology.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

I am not talking about 3rd world dictators..... I am talking about specific horrible abuses of GURT and Terminator seeds and the truth that the crap is cross pollinating with normal crops.

In the list of dubious technologies, the Terminator would score 9 or a perfect 10. Also called Genetic Use Restriction Technology (GURT), the Terminator has a simple objective: create seeds that commit suicide after one generation. In effect, farmers who plant these seeds would get a `normal' harvest, but if they tried replanting seeds from this harvest, they would get a dead crop. In the second-generation seeds, a genetic process triggered by the technology, which is inserted into the first generation seeds, would render them sterile. (OK .... so... Monsanto can control pollination? This isn't going to cross pollinate with the farmers crop next door and render his seeds for next year sterile??)

The potential impact of cross-pollination with a suicide crop has provoked considerable opposition to Terminator Technology. Brazil & India have already passed laws banning it & Canada is on the way.

(You must be insane to think THAT is a good idea!)


(Now below... is this arrogance or stupidity? Do YOU think this is a good idea??)

Monsanto also breeds into its seeds bacteria that can only be defeated by Monsanto's own herbicides. No one knows what the long-term effects of such genetic tampering may be, but concerns are being raised that these will lead to the evolution of pesticide-resistant "super-bugs," in much the same manner that we are now vulnerable to antibiotic-resistant bacterial infections due to the overuse of antibiotic

www.berkshireweb.com...



[edit on 23-12-2008 by infolurker]

Ok let me make this clear. This thread is about government subsidies and tariffs and policy and it's effects on the world as is clearly stated in the OP. This is not a thread about crop technology. This thread is about POLICY. I am going to ask the mods to remove off topic posts. I mean no disrespect by doing this, but I would like to keep this discussion on POLICY Please take the time to read the OP before commenting. Thank you.