Afghanistan could get up to 30,000 new US troops

Originally posted by cmd18B
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

I have to admit that I almost bought into this change crap he has been shoveling..I will always stick up for the troops but more troops equals more spending and more down the drain we go..I pray for my younger borther and my friends and all troops over there and heading there but im so sick of my goverment. The american economy is in the crapper and now this...I shudder to think.

Are you really so surprised that their are going to be more troops sent to Aghanistan, Obama has only been talking about this for the past 2 years or so, "Focus more on Afghan than Iraq" He talked about it in all 3 debates so i'm sure voters knew what 'Change' they were voting for.

This isn't any news.

reply to post by cmd18B


I have no problem with the thread being open.

I was over there in 2005-2006 and can relate to how you feel.

It would be anal of me, like a little brat to demand that you closed your thread.

There are alot good posts here and I thank you all, Dooper nicely put as usual, I just know that only certain soldiers can flourish in that terrain and I just dont want to see your garden variety grunt fighting there and its not to belittle the grunt at all but some of the altitudes and terrain features are unforgiving and even the best of special operators has been know to be a little winded while mr Taliban will come at you in sandals and a kalishnakov, They are holy warriors who believe Allah is on thier side and pushed the mighty red army and the Spetznaz out. In my humblest of opinions I feel that only special operations can win this war but those men do not grow on trees so I just hope that it gets done right and im speaking from man who suffers from survivors guilt and does not like seeing any more troops coming home in flag draped coffins..

reply to post by MikeboydUS


welcome back brother!!!..Im happy to know somebody actually knows how I feel because finding people to talk to is hard, I have a younger brother who is on active duty and my father retired as an E-9 so its ultra personal for me and not to mention buddies still on the ground there....



[edit on 20-12-2008 by cmd18B]

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective


Absolutely NOTHING is going to change in terms of foreign policy insanity. In fact, it's likely going to get WORSE.

Yeah did you watch his victory speech the crowd was kind of shocked a bit when he warned foreign power etc

He didn’t sound like the Obama savior I could hear the agenda then.

For those who don’t believe me watch this and look at his attitude and the crowds reaction. Start at 11:58

You'd think it would be considered quite embarrassing for worlds greatest military force to be struggling against rag tag terrorists in jeeps with rpg s. Although I guess the Russians couldn't do it either. Quite the soldiers those Taliban. Well trained you'd say.

It's an excuse to maintain a strong presence in the region, also to keep the heroin flowing to help prop up the failing economy.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by squiz]

Originally posted by squiz
You'd think it would be considered quite embarrassing for worlds greatest military force to be struggling against rag tag terrorists in jeeps with rpg s.

Nobody says we are " Struggling "

This is not like when the USSR went in in the 80's We have the support of a lot of the clan leaders not all! but a lot more than the Russian could of dreamed of and not only that but a lot of the Talibon are not even Afghanistany Not sure what the % is but its a majority are from other muslim countries who are there to fight the great satan!

In war, that which is intuitive is counterproductive.

In war, that which is counterintuitive is productive, and will produce victory.

For all military leaders, from fire team leader to commanding general, counterintuition must be practiced and internalized until counterintuition is intuitive.

In combat, one can be large and slow, or small and fast.

Slow is dead. Fast is to live. Fast is to win. Fast is to destroy.

The mongoose uses his speed against the deadly cobra. After multiple feints, from multiple directions, the cobra cannot continue to counter those fast feints and begins to tire. That's when the mongoose owns his prey.

We have accorded all mobility and all speed, and have given our enemies in Afghanistan all the initiative.

With our bunker mentality.

Originally posted by cmd18B
There are alot good posts here and I thank you all, Dooper nicely put as usual, I just know that only certain soldiers can flourish in that terrain and I just dont want to see your garden variety grunt fighting there and its not to belittle the grunt at all but some of the altitudes and terrain features are unforgiving and even the best of special operators has been know to be a little winded while mr Taliban will come at you in sandals and a kalishnakov, They are holy warriors who believe Allah is on thier side and pushed the mighty red army and the Spetznaz out. In my humblest of opinions I feel that only special operations can win this war but those men do not grow on trees so I just hope that it gets done right and im speaking from man who suffers from survivors guilt and does not like seeing any more troops coming home in flag draped coffins..

AMEN

Originally posted by SFwife
I don't know any soldiers that are complaining .Of course I don't know many average soldiers .Most just see it as their job .I know my husband does .

De Oppresso Liber

COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF.

BUT.... LOL @ CHANGE!

All this comes down to is USA vs. Middle East

Obama looks good 'getting us out of Iraq' but we're just going to send them over to Afghanistan so what's the change? It's our own stupid fault for one) electing scum two) thinking these are multiple wars. Yes, they're two different areas requiring two different strategies but are we forgetting how small these places are in comparison to the US? It's like saying okay okay we're going to pull our troops out of Kansas now and put them in Texas.

They do what they want. We complain. Haven't we figured this out yet?

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Another historical precedent could be if contact was lost for a long time they might convert to Islam and assimilate into the population, just like the Mongols did.

Ain't gonna happen.

Do you honestly think the US military would convert to Islam if that meant giving up beer and porn?

Originally posted by jerico65


Ain't gonna happen.

Do you honestly think the US military would convert to Islam if that meant giving up beer and porn?

you said beer!

second line here

reply to post by dooper


Umm no, air superiority and carpet bombing forced the Taliban to abandon its government and begin guerilla warefare. A guerilla warefare that has been so effective, in the past 7 years, they have 90%+ the country back under their grip, with the coalition stuggeling in Helmand province and barely holding onto Kabul!

Good luck with the extra troops, if you manage to bring Pakistan into the war (which seems inevitable now), your gonna be licking your wounds for centuries to come! If the Taliban can hand you your ass with basic weaponry and transport. What will they hand you with the backing of a modernised army? (primerily thanks to military aid from your own government lol) For the first time in 7 years the Taliban would have air support, long range artillery, anti armour weaponry, helicopter insertions/extraction, supply lines to the front (therefore no need to retreat after every attack, they could hold out and wait for re-enforcements and supplies). They have waged a pretty sucessful campaign as they are, but like I say, with Pakistan as a fighting partner. The coalition stands no chance.

There would be conventional attacks and guerilla attacks happening at once. No army would be prepared to handle both types of warefare at once.

Of course if India is brought into the coalition against Pakistan, that could reverse the situation back to present, leaveing the taliban to fend for them self, with limited assistance. While Pakistan prepares and conducts its own lil war with India.

Just like Viet Nam became "Nixon's war", the minute Obama commits more troops to Afghanistan, it will become Obama's war.

Let's see how all the anti-war folks take that "change" that they voted for.

Originally posted by Saf85
Umm no, air superiority and carpet bombing forced the Taliban to abandon its government and begin guerilla warefare. A guerilla warefare that has been so effective, in the past 7 years, they have 90%+ the country back under their grip, with the coalition stuggeling in Helmand province and barely holding onto Kabul!

Wrong. Special Operations Forces slapped down the Taliban. Read up on it, it was in all the newspapers. What does Air Superiority have to do with fighting bad guys in the hills.

Originally posted by Saf85
Good luck with the extra troops, if you manage to bring Pakistan into the war (which seems inevitable now), your gonna be licking your wounds for centuries to come! If the Taliban can hand you your ass with basic weaponry and transport. What will they hand you with the backing of a modernised army? (primerily thanks to military aid from your own government lol) For the first time in 7 years the Taliban would have air support, long range artillery, anti armour weaponry, helicopter insertions/extraction, supply lines to the front (therefore no need to retreat after every attack, they could hold out and wait for re-enforcements and supplies). They have waged a pretty sucessful campaign as they are, but like I say, with Pakistan as a fighting partner. The coalition stands no chance.

Handed us our asses? Hmmm...musta missed that. I think the Taliban didn't know what hit them when the ODAs were cut loose and allowed to hunt.

Pakistan as a fighting partner? Have you stacked Coaltion forces against Pakistani forces? I don't think Pakistan will be standing a chance.

Originally posted by dooper
SFwife, you are very rare. Very correct of course, just very rare.

Properly addressed, we don't need a lot of troops in Afghanistan to take on the Taliban and shut them down. Properly approached, a small army competently led, can always prevail over large numbers.

Less than 300 Special Operations forces, consisting of Special Forces, TACP personnel, Company Branch Operatives, and a few others brought down the Taliban government in the early days.

Not divisions of soldiers, led by a general from thousands of mile away.

If we could follow the basic principles of warfare, 10,000 selected ground troops would be sufficient to bring these Islamic guerrillas to their knees, and do so within six months.

But you have to take the gloves off and so it smart.

The greatest, most effective counter tactic against guerrillas, in cities or mountains, hasn't been used yet. The solution?

Bring in more troops. Because that's what the US Army "book" says.

So now we'll drag out this fight in Afghanistan for several years, when we could win and go home within six months.

God help us from our leaders.

Thank you I take *rare* as a compliment
I know A LOT about the early days ..A lot

Originally posted by Saf85
reply to post by dooper

 

Umm no, air superiority and carpet bombing forced the Taliban to abandon its government and begin guerilla warefare. A guerilla warefare that has been so effective, in the past 7 years, they have 90%+ the country back under their grip, with the coalition stuggeling in Helmand province and barely holding onto Kabul!

Good luck with the extra troops, if you manage to bring Pakistan into the war (which seems inevitable now), your gonna be licking your wounds for centuries to come! If the Taliban can hand you your ass with basic weaponry and transport. What will they hand you with the backing of a modernised army? (primerily thanks to military aid from your own government lol) For the first time in 7 years the Taliban would have air support, long range artillery, anti armour weaponry, helicopter insertions/extraction, supply lines to the front (therefore no need to retreat after every attack, they could hold out and wait for re-enforcements and supplies). They have waged a pretty sucessful campaign as they are, but like I say, with Pakistan as a fighting partner. The coalition stands no chance.

There would be conventional attacks and guerilla attacks happening at once. No army would be prepared to handle both types of warefare at once.

Of course if India is brought into the coalition against Pakistan, that could reverse the situation back to present, leaveing the taliban to fend for them self, with limited assistance. While Pakistan prepares and conducts its own lil war with India.

wow just wow

reply to post by Saf85


We excel at conventional warfare, guerilla warfare not so much unless conducted by special operations units.

Our regular forces would wipe Pakistan's military out. Our Navy and Air Force wouldn't really need much help in doing either. India's help would be bonus.

Pakistan on a conventional level would be defeated within days. It would not be easy to invade and occupy though. I wouldn't expect us to invade and occupy that much of Pakistan. It would probably be just two provinces, the ones Afghanistan would like back. I fairly sure India even if it didn't help would still go into the rest of Kashmir. At least one western province could even get taken by Iran, if we let them. A few provinces would even go for independence.

The sad thing is it really wouldn't be that great for the rest of Pakistan. With the military broken, there would be widespread anarchy and the only order would come from tribal control in certain areas. It would basically be in a state of siege. Before long it could look a lot like Somalia, a complete nightmare for the people struggling to survive within it.