The scam-artist.

I place scam-artists higher than regular geniuses on the intelligence ranking. Why? It takes skill to fool normal people into buying your product that is worthless. There are several faith healers who claim they can bring people happiness or can bring people closer to God when their ideas or actions haven't been proven. They are allowed to do this... as religion is not a provable thing. But exactly what makes scam artists so successful? Is it the ideas they have? Is it that their beliefs are too good to be true so people want to believe in it?

We see scam artists a lot. We see a lot of self-help book scams and we see a lot of scams in a lot of subject areas that are too good to be true. Exactly what motivates people to buy these kinds of books where they get scammed? I have gotten scammed by various books. I guess it would have to due with the subject you're researching. I wanted to learn about religion and spirituality but I got scammed in turn by religious whackos who wrote books on how to get in touch with your spiritual side and by a new-age guru that claimed that you could find a gateway to God by other means. I expected a book on mysticism and I got something else. That was a good scam artist.

Scam artists have to have credibility. They need to have academic credentials. Otherwise people wouldn't buy their books or take them seriously. They tell you to go to buy all their books to learn the secrets of the world... they think somehow they are more superior than everyone else and that nothing is wrong with their life. They trick people into believing things that aren't even remotely intelligent.

Exactly what causes these people to be so successful, and, what causes them not to be caught?

It just astounds me how many people are tricked by scam-artists. I recommend to those of you here to arm yourselves with the right kind of information and to be a skeptic on things that sound too good to be true. There are BS artists that make stuff up for a living. I don't understand why so many people buy into them.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


It has to do with desire. If you are selling something I want then I'll most likely buy it from you. The more I want it, the more likely I'll buy it from you.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Not that scam artists don't target the vulnerable, they do BUT...

Many people buy into the scams because they want the item, want to think they are getting a great deal that is secret and so they are kinda "SPECIAL" and this makes them feel important and like they got something that others don't...


edit - one day I will learn to type

[edit on 12/15/2008 by theindependentjournal]

I just saw some of the best scam artists in the world at a investing seminar I attended this weekend. It was for a company called Investools, that helps you choose stocks and options. The whole thing was like a 2 day sales pitch rather than a training and at the end of the day they passed out a thing that said they wanted $23k from you to "continue your education."

Wanting to know more I looked them up online and found that they were being investigated by the SEC.

Check it out.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Without confessing to any crimes, I do have some relevant experience in this area, and it has been my observation that, while some people are better scammers than others (in terms of percentage of population they can "sell" to):

Nobody can sell to everybody.
&
Even using the exact same words, a verbatim pitch, each scammer will find that they have a characteristic target audience, that one scammer will find that he sells better to greedy semi-literate immigrants whereas his co-worker scammer gets none of them but instead sells to nice vague old widow ladies...the reasons why for this individual personal effect are mysterious but fun to speculate on, if you know the scammers involved...

"they think somehow they are more superior than everyone else and that nothing is wrong with their life. They trick people into believing things that aren't even remotely intelligent. "

Wow, that was an awfully transparent statement. It's also ironic because when offering your opinion in this forum, you appear like you are the more intelligent one, which I'm sure gave you a sense of superiority.

those damn EGOs and their control overr us...

Originally posted by atzmaz
I just saw some of the best scam artists in the world at a investing seminar I attended this weekend. It was for a company called Investools, that helps you choose stocks and options.
Check it out.

HAHAHAHA, thats one of my regular infomercials here at work. about once every month i get a new tape and have to air that garbage so people will be tricked into going to one of those lame seminars. im sure you had to "buy' a ticket just to get in.....

Now, to respond to the OP, Saying scam artists are of higher intelligence can not be easily done. you see, they merely have to be one step ahead of the scam-ee. some people are idiots, and thats putting it nicely. others are FAR to trusting, which is one of my flaws.

Cats like Lou Pearlman dont stay on top forever....

I will say that people who steal from seniors are some of the lowest and most scum like people.

[edit on 15-12-2008 by drsmooth23]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Scam artists have to have credibility. They need to have academic credentials. Otherwise people wouldn't buy their books or take them seriously.

There is no need for genuine credibility or academic credentials. A scam artists needs only to create the illusion of credibility and knowledge. These are not geniuses, but they are adept at manipulation and sleight of hand. To assign them great intellect would be giving them far too much credit.

Part of it comes down to simply what works for one person might not work for another.
From medical supplements, to colon cleaners (gag) to books on spirituality, etc.
Doesn’t necessarily mean you were scammed...
It doesn't rule out you weren’t either.
Then again, when searching for something as important as spirituality and a belief system - well - it’s too important to accept the first thing that plops down in your lap.
The fight makes it all worth it - it’s all in the *getting there*, in the search, in the learning, not just magically having a belief system or a way of *being*.
Good Luck to you - I hope you find what you’re looking for, but i don’t hope the *looking* is easy.
I hope it is a fight for you - will mean more in the end I’d think.

That will be $32.95 please, U2U your bank info to my account, thanks and have a nice day.

*jk* of course!



*P*E*A*C*E*

reply to post by paperplanes

But having the credibility makes scam-artists even more successful. If you have an English major or a degree as a physicist you are more likely to be more well received by people and they will be more likely to buy your books. Of course, you have to sound anti-intelligent as well... but seriously... scam-artists have been doing this for centuries... and we haven't picked up on their techniques and they STILL manage to find a way to scam us. Why is this so?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by paperplanes

 

But having the credibility makes scam-artists even more successful. If you have an English major or a degree as a physicist you are more likely to be more well received by people and they will be more likely to buy your books. Of course, you have to sound anti-intelligent as well... but seriously... scam-artists have been doing this for centuries... and we haven't picked up on their techniques and they STILL manage to find a way to scam us. Why is this so?

Again, you can easily create the illusion of credibility, the illusion of a degree in physics or medicine. Scam artists don't need to actually have a degree in a subject--they need only convince their audience that they do, or that they are at least knowledgeable in a particular field. How many people bother to verify a degree or credential that is mentioned by a scam artist on TV? Most will indolently ignore it and offer up their credit card.

Scam artists have been doing this for centuries and not everyone is drawn into these schemes, though a great many are. I don't know why you insist on aligning this with the great mysteries of life. These are not geniuses who have somehow duped the world. They have been around forever and are able to fool many people, yes, but there are many who don't buy in. Humans can be blind to fraud--what else is there to say? Scam artists aren't brilliant, we're just frequently credulous.

[edit on 15/12/08 by paperplanes]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by paperplanes

 

But having the credibility makes scam-artists even more successful. If you have an English major or a degree as a physicist you are more likely to be more well received by people and they will be more likely to buy your books. Of course, you have to sound anti-intelligent as well... but seriously... scam-artists have been doing this for centuries... and we haven't picked up on their techniques and they STILL manage to find a way to scam us. Why is this so?

The scam artist DOES HAVE what you want, in the moment when you buy from him (by definition, or you wouldn't pay out), and in the moment you pay out, you get it from him (we can call it a "state of grace" or "moment of clarity" or "the bad Holy Spirit" or anything you like)...
The problem is (blaming the victim, but it's true)...you have less practice being the new way (less "time in grade") and so you fall out...The preacher does have more Holy Spirit than you, and you the sinner are saved...But then YOU BACKSLIDE...
This process is the same for swindlers and messiahs, whether they are sincere or crazy or lying...if the swindler/messiah/scammer has a pretty good product, you may stay in the new-you-state for years or the rest of your life (IT'S FOR REAL< IT WORKS, I NEVER TOOK ANOTHER DRINK)(NOW EVERYWHERE I GO I FIND OPPORTUNITIES IN REAL ESTATE)...but if the leader is selling cardboard shoes for self-hypnosis your feet may already feel wet when you get home
But we don't blame prostitutes for the fact that orgasm wears off...
Just like lottery tickets give hope to the poor, the scammer performs a valuable service even if he only gives five minutes of feeling like somebdy else to the legions of the dissatisfied
That's why Rajneesh deserved the Rolls-Royces, he was doing them people a favor...

I think that you're only just beginning to see the tip of the "scam" iceberg. Your post focuses on the scam texts that clutter the shelves of all the major bookstore chains as if they were the only scams worth considering. I think the basic fabric of our country's political, spiritual and economic establishments are all now firmly based upon the Scam Doctrine. Let's consider the basic nature of a scam for a moment. A scam is basically where a fantasy gets peddled in place of something real and concrete. The scammer goes to great lengths to convince the sucker that his fantasy product is genuine but the truth of the matter is that the scam artist is always trafficking in something he cannot or will not really deliver. Let's consider some recent examples:

Ted Haggard was and still is a consummate scam artist. His product was salvation and a closer walk with Jesus. The fantasy content in this offering are, of course, off the charts. At best the chances that the Hebrew God and his long suffering son actually exist are 50-50 (and I'm being extremely kind here). Beyond the odds there's the rather obvious fact that Ted is in no position to promise anybody that they'll actually be pardoned on Judgement Day. Still, peddling his brand of Christianity allowed him to build a multi-million dollar organization and made him a very rich man, until the fall came. All con-men are fakers and when one of Ted's gay prostitutes finally went to the press with the truth about him, poor Ted got kicked out of the very church his lying and theiving had built! Ted sold himself as a man with an enviable connection to God but he really was just another closeted religious predator using the good book to fleece the gullible of their cash.

George W. Bush is another great example of the con in the political realm. Bush is a consummate liar in a field where lying is the coin of the realm, namely american politics. Nothing about the man's political persona or his agenda were real. Nothing! He's not a Texan, he's not a rancher, he's not a christian, he's not sober, he's nowhere near macho, and, to top it all off, there's good reson to believe that he's not even straight either. Out of all of the principles he claimed to hold in high esteem when he was first campaigning for the presidency, things like balanced federal budgets and limited federal government and a foreign policy that avoided nation building, in the final tally his administration lived up to exactly none of those goals he promised the american people he would vigorously persue. All of those high minded ideas were merely the vehicles by which he could achieve and maintain the presidency. After he was in they were dispensed with as quickly as a used tampon gets flushed. All modern politicians are scam artists these days, and the parties they represent wouldn't have it any other way.

And just look at the auto industry and their recent travails. Once upon a time the American business model was based upon what they called "The Square Deal". It was a decent product offered to the consumer at a fair price. That ideal went the way of the Dodo some time ago. Nowadays the business of the scam rules the land. Some time ago the big three embraced the concept of "planned obsolesence" in a big time way. Instead of building cars that would last a lifetime they decided instead to build cars that would start to disintegrate after the consumer finished paying for them, thus providing incentive for him to purchase another car. They still continued to advertise their vehicles as tough and reliable, but in a market where foreign imports deliver the reliability while their products just plague their owners with shop visit after shop visit, is it any wonder that thier market share has taken a huge dip to the south?? The con is king in america these days and appearance trumps everything.