Something Im thinking about, read please.

Hello folks, you probably don't know me because I don't write alot of stuff on ATS but I do come here everyday!

But now there's something that I was thinking about 2minutes ago that I have to share with you guys.!

As you know, we live in a solar system which is in the Milky Way Galaxy, there's nothing new here, old stuff. Now try to take a look OUTSIDE our galaxy! With our High-Tech , zoom on a planet that looks like our, it's beautiful isn't it? Maybe there is life there but who knows..?

NOW think about SOMETHING nobody thinks about...

Light years

Astronomical distances are sometimes measured in light-years (the distance that light would travel in one Earth year, roughly 9.46×1012 kilometres or about 5.88×1012 miles). Because light travels at a large but finite speed, it takes time for light to cover large distances. Thus, the light from distant objects in the universe was emitted from them long ago: in effect, an observer at a large distance sees their distant past. Light from the sun takes around eight and one-third minutes to reach the earth. If the light from the sun were to cease we would not know about it on Earth for several minutes. Even if an observer close to the sun were to communicate this information to Earth, there would be no way for the communication to warn Earth without violating causality.

Then it means that what we see in the sky might aswell be dead and BEEN dead for x years... so what we see isn't what is here at the moments in our skies.. the stars ETC...

So now there's a question fo you all.

In 2007 we found a planet that looks like our.
The Earth-like planet that could be covered in oceans and may support life is 20.5 light years away, and has the right temperature to allow liquid water on its surface. Gliese 581 is among the closest stars to us, just 20.5 light years away (about 120 trillion miles) in the constellation Libra. It is so dim it can be seen only with a good telescope.

Ok, so we found a planet like ours BUT, if the light theory is used in this same context.. what we see 20.5 lights years away.. isn't WHAT is THERE.
It is what was there at the time the light was sent to us and NOW we can see it as it was back when the light was sent SO! If we go outside our solar system.. what we see is the past!

Then.. why can't we find life out there? SIMPLY because what we see FAR AWAY in our skies is what was THERE millions if not BILLIONS of years ago.. so today there could be life everywhere and we could NOT know it! So I think this is a new beginning for th astronomy.! Not that I've found something huge... alot o people knows about the light and that the stars that we see are probably already dead!

I was just thinking about that and I think I had to share it with you guys! =)

PS: Sorry for the english

Sources:

en.wikipedia.org...
www.dailymail.co.uk...

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[edit on Thu Dec 18 2008 by Jbird]

Our galaxy is about 100,000 light-years in diameter. So, in order for the time it takes light to travel to be a factor that affects our possibility of observing, there would have to have been some 'triggering condition', approximately 100,000 years ago, before which development of intelligent life was impossible. Instead, new star formation and planetary formation seems to be a continual process. Interesting idea, though. Maybe very distant galaxies have changed into something entirely different, and we just don't know it yet?

You might find the Drake Equation interesting.

As for watching a Planet die, I would have to think it would be a real time ordeal. There is not much by way of the disclosure of your inquiry for such a deep thought. I , for one, would think it would be something like the "Shoemaker_Levy" incident when it impacted Jupiter. Though I am not positive, it would hold the strongest possibility of being a "Real-Time" scenario for witnessing it , may be delayed for some seconds, but would be a visual occurrence.
Gamma ray burst are more catastrophic and more immense occurrence's, there was one that was observed at least half as old as the Universe with in 20secs. after regeneration:

This record-breaking GRB was observed by the Swift observatory (launched into Earth orbit in 2004) which surveys the sky for GRBs. Using its Burst Alert Telescope (BAT), the initiation of an event can be relayed to Earth within 20 seconds. Once located, the spacecraft turns all its instruments toward the burst to measure the spectrum of light emitted from the afterglow. This observatory is being used to understand how GRBs are initiated and how the hot gas and dust surrounding the event evolves.

Now, beings this was a Gamma burst, which is more intense by light standards, it still is a relatively fast journey from place of incident to our visual capabilities back here on Earth. And you have to admit, 7.6B AU is a long ways to travel in just 20 secs., so I think I would do more study on your theory there is nothing faster than the speed of light, which scientists are coming to grips with today.

www.universetoday.com...

Very interesting thought concept, very good question indeed, I will venture back here to see if you find anything conclusive on this scenario. Until then, I will be checking around as well.

Thanks for the mind bender, "Now I'll be up all night on the computer!!" LOL...

Time and speed or even distance dont exist in astrological terms! Maybe this is a help.

If the earth like planet is 20 light years away, it's light reaches us in twenty years time.

Originally posted by albertfothergill
Time and speed or even distance dont exist in astrological terms! Maybe this is a help.

"This statement makes no sense?"
What exactly are you saying, that time and space are not measurable?
Because that is incorrect, "Maybe.?" Had to cover my tracks there, because it just dawned on me that it was "Us" that invented time measurements, and can be relative to "Space/Time" measurements.

It notes that by being able to measure time and space, ancient human managed to leave the caves, build urban settlements, and organize his life. As for modern human, the measurement of time and space represents a continuous challenges for his development and progress, it says.

www.dpmio.com...

MEASURING TIME AND SPACE
Perhaps the greatest difference between the way the sixteenth century studied the curiosities of the world and the way we do is the degree to which we measure all phenomena and the uses to which we put these measurements. Instead of looking at an object as a whole, considering its pattern and similarity to other objects, we tend to dissect the object and measure its parts. What and how we measure varies from discipline to discipline, although these calculations usually proceed along the axes of time and space. Nonetheless, how each field thinks about time and space, or what it is most interested in discovering, can seem completely foreign from the perspective of other fields. What one field finds incredibly old will seem to another trivially recent; what is near or distant to a particle physicist is insignificant to a geographer. Meaning and measurement lie in the trained eye of the beholder. A series of images of and samples from the Santa Cruz Island was used to illustrate this point, ranging from a satellite photograph down to an electron microscope photograph.

microcosms.ihc.ucsb.edu...

Well, albertfothergill, "You have helped me see the light my friend!!"
Pretty much any science studied or essay written on this topic refers to our beliefs in measurements of "Space-Time" acceptances to be tangibly incorrect, depending from what aspect you are trying to attain information.

Though we still use the terms as an explanation tool for the multitudes, it still rattles my cage when I have been so wrong for so long from something I thought to be factual, "Thanks for the 'Correct' definition of Space/Time."

albertfothergill, "You are a friend of mine!!!"...LOL...

reply to post by ShadowStep


I didn't read your post, but need to comment on your title "something I'm thinking about". Did it ever occur to you that any time anybody writes a post they are thinking about what they are writing. Therefore, all posts are something the author is thinking about. So please consider something that *describes* the thoughts you are having in future postings.

Thank you.

"something I'm thinking about"

Sounds spot on to me truthquest, there is nothing more than an inquiry of a thought that he has produced with true ATS valor of "Denying Ignorance" as far as I am concerned, think the other ATSer's would agree, well, people that have been here for a while anyway. IMHO....

Originally posted by Fromabove
If the earth like planet is 20 light years away, it's light reaches us in twenty years time.

Yes I know, my point was more...

''Who are we to say that there's no life out there when what we see with our eyes is what was there BEFORE?'''

Im not saying that there is life out there, but I think that what I wrote in the OP is something that everybody should take in consideration before jumping to the conclusion that htere's no life out there Who knows after all?!

Originally posted by truthquest
reply to post by ShadowStep

 

I didn't read your post, but need to comment on your title "something I'm thinking about". Did it ever occur to you that any time anybody writes a post they are thinking about what they are writing. Therefore, all posts are something the author is thinking about. So please consider something that *describes* the thoughts you are having in future postings.

Thank you.

Yes I got you there, but if you look from a different view, the way I wrote it, there's no way that people will get confused with my point of view because I state nothing in my title. I would of get flamed If I had wrote ''I found something'' instead of the title that I gave to this topic ! And it's originial in it's simplicty isn't it ?

Kidding buddy I got the message , the next threads will have better titles!

reply to post by ShadowStep


I've thought this same thing a lot and the scale of the question is so huge. Doesn't it also matter if we are moving away from said star as well? These planets could house aliens that visit here, and if we got to see well enough we could see them evolve as a species.It'd be like watching the past literally....i love these neutral thought provoking posts, thx!

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Our galaxy is about 100,000 light-years in diameter. So, in order for the time it takes light to travel to be a factor that affects our possibility of observing, there would have to have been some 'triggering condition', approximately 100,000 years ago, before which development of intelligent life was impossible. Instead, new star formation and planetary formation seems to be a continual process. Interesting idea, though. Maybe very distant galaxies have changed into something entirely different, and we just don't know it yet?

You might find the Drake Equation interesting.

Thanks for the link even if I already knew about it but it's good to read it all again to refresh my mind!

Yes, the idea is that what we see out there is what was there back then so yes, some ET could be watching the dinosaurs wrestling in the dirt with it's 1080pp HD interdimensionnal television which have a trillion galaxies channels! Who knows hehe!

reply to post by heyo


I guess that if we had a craft that would go alot faster than the speed of light and that if we after aim a planet that has life on it, we could probably see the life's evolution as we would go quick to the planet's light, we would see the life evolve faster! That is mind blowing

reply to post by ShadowStep


You have a very compelling theory there. Interesting to think that "others" out there may find us back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.

ShadowStep, the time it takes light to come from places that we can actually observe is, astronomically, very little. The process of evolution of stars, planets, life, takes much more than a mere few hundreds of light years. Only the things we see way outside of the milky way may be actually somewhat different to what is actually is now, but then again, that's just too far away to be properly observed. The stars we see are practically all in the milky way, not in any other galaxy (some exceptions though: we can make out some stars in the LMC or SMC). Therefore, if we had to observe a planet where life is possible, it is very closely looking to what we actually see, even if we observe its (close) past. If people on that planet exist & observe us, they'd see the end of our 1980's. Not very different, you know...

I think in terms of, if one believes in the expanding universe theory then what we are seeing is actually much older because as we in our present position are moving away from said object or objects moving away from us then how does time and distance compensate for the differance..sound crazy but in my mind that makes sence. Btw hi red!

reply to post by Allred5923


Not time and space.....Scale and Density.

I don't buy the distances.

How do we watch planets align if the light takes so long, or see an eclipse? These things make no sense if the suns light takes 8 seconds to travel to earth even longer for the planets moving outward. Times would be thrown off by the offsets of light travel, so that nothing would line up.

Everything is running linearly in scale and density at resonate states or "chambers".

Take an hour glass for example. There is always the same amount of sand in the glass only the ratio of top to bottom changes. Adding and Subtracting with division in ratio. Like an hour glass, it has a tiny point through which the same amount of sand must pass through narrowly.

"Like sands through the hour glass, so are the days of our lives"
Peace


Can't be, beside I can see the sun and moon in the sky

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[edit on Thu Dec 18 2008 by Jbird]

Originally posted by SpookyVince
ShadowStep, the time it takes light to come from places that we can actually observe is, astronomically, very little. The process of evolution of stars, planets, life, takes much more than a mere few hundreds of light years. Only the things we see way outside of the milky way may be actually somewhat different to what is actually is now, but then again, that's just too far away to be properly observed. The stars we see are practically all in the milky way, not in any other galaxy (some exceptions though: we can make out some stars in the LMC or SMC). Therefore, if we had to observe a planet where life is possible, it is very closely looking to what we actually see, even if we observe its (close) past. If people on that planet exist & observe us, they'd see the end of our 1980's. Not very different, you know...

I got you therte, but I was more talking about our scientists who looks in others galaxy that are hundreds and thousands of lights years away, what they see isn't 20 years in th past but hundreds .thousands or even 10 000 years ago. As our scientists with their High-tech telescopes watch in the other galaxies and as a fact that there's no life out there discovered.. Its true , there's no life there YET, but once again what they actually see in far far far away galaxies, is what isn't there.

Thanks letthereaderunderstand!!

I went on a "Intellectual Venture" for a conclusive reason t why I had not thought of this before, it turned out quite informative.

Note on Cosmic Distances
In astronomy, distances are measured in units of light years, where one light year is the distance that light travels in a year—10 trillion kilometers. For historical reasons having to do with measuring distances to nearby stars, professional astronomers use the unit of parsecs, with one parsec being equal to 3.26 light years.

Astronomers compute the distance to remote galaxies (ones that are more than about 20 million light years away) with Hubble's law. According to Hubble's law, the universe is expanding in such a way that distant galaxies are receding from one another with a speed which is proportional to their distance. The recession causes the radiation from a galaxy to shift to longer wavelengths—the red shift. From a measurement of the red shift and the constant of proportionality, called Hubble's constant, astronomers can determine the distance to a galaxy.

One of the central problems of modern astronomy is to accurately determine Hubble's constant, which is a measure of the rate of expansion of the universe. At present it is known to an accuracy of about 20 percent, so we usually modify distances by saying "about 100 million light years," for example. We assume throughout the Photo Album a value of the Hubble constant that corresponds to a recession velocity of 600 kilometers per second for a source at a distance of 30 million light years or 10 million parsecs (H0 = 60 km/s/Mpc).

chandra.harvard.edu...

Though there were other web sites listed, for some reason they only come up blank, these are the titles such as "Why Au measurements are inaccurate" kind of headers. Kind of odd those particular ones were the "None Working" sites, because that's what I was wanting to find out!!!

I did understand, however, of the red and blue conclusions of measurements for galactic visual variations, I still have a hard time gripping that we have substantiated a use of measurement that very well could be only 20% accurate with the advent of the Hubble Constant even being initiated into our assumptions of star distances.

Thanks again!! I am a better person for have hearing that this is a factual dilemma with our methods of measuring the Cosmos...

Originally posted by alyosha1981
I think in terms of, if one believes in the expanding universe theory then what we are seeing is actually much older because as we in our present position are moving away from said object or objects moving away from us then how does time and distance compensate for the differance..sound crazy but in my mind that makes sence.

I was always aware of the continuum of the expanding Universe theory as well, and gave it deep though, but it turns out our 20% accuracy probability of stellar measurements are or could be way off base for actuality.
What you stated above is the way I had felt about this issue, but then again, "It is the invention of man, this time!!" LOL

Btw hi red!

And "Hello!" right back at you alyosha....