Gaza families eat grass as Israel locks border

Originally posted by Britguy
If you bother to do a little research,...

I've done plenty. How about you do some yourself.

And all those ‘fishing boats’ are doing is fishing … right? They couldn’t possibly be out there getting weapons and ammo. They couldn’t possibly be part of a smuggling operation. Naaaaah. Must be the Israelis imagination.

One of many such stories here .

some of what is smuggled into the Gaza

Israel believes that surrendering the waters opens the doors for smuggling in of weapons that will be used against them. Including advanced weapons.

Considering the poor behavior of those in the Gaza, Israel should be worried! Considering the track record of the Palestinians, Israel is right not to trust them.

Heres a great facts page on the area;
israelipalestinian.procon.org...

reply to post by Nineteen


Ever hear of the six day war? The arabs attacked the jews and in six days all the arab forces were decimated, thus allowing the jew to take more of their land back...they won!

One might question what it is they have been supposedly chosen for.

Nineteen, This is really a very deep and profound question. I have pondered it often
since I was old enough to question the religion that I was tought as a child.

Well the Palestinians have tried farming but Israel keeps bulldozing their harvest so that the Israeli settlers can extend their farms living near by.

tOken, Not to mention the bulldozing of their homes and the special paperwork palestinian workers
must carry with them in order to move through checkpoints and barriers. Isreal is perpetrating their
own form of holocaust (yes I said it and I'm not "anti-semite", I'm anti-genocide no matter who is
engaging in it.) against the Palestinians.

THERE ARE ROCKETS BEING FIRED DAILY ON ISRAEL.

I refuse to agree to "normal" situation when entire Israeli south is bombarded daily.

ZeroKnowledge, Please provide news links confirming this for the last 10 days.

When Israel was occupying Gaza conditions were much much better. And what Palestinian land exactly? Look at UN partition plan - area surrounding Gaza is Israeli.

Zeroknowledge, This is an interesting point. If Gaza is Israeli, given to them by the UN. Then what
is the purpose of Blocking UN humanitarian aid from getting into the area? Other than the fact that
the food and other humanitarian supplies are destined for Palestinian people.

If Israel turned away a ship, you need to say ***WHY*** did they turn the ship away.

Difficult when Israel itself will only site security reasons

However, Defense Minister Ehud Barak said yesterday that Israel had "no intention of letting ships into the Gaza Strip,"
Source

Hey, I'm reasonable. Give me a link to a news story. What kind of chemicals (If this really happened)?

Here's one
Here's another one



I don't think anyone would argue that the whole situation is a mess. I know that if a foreign entity
bulldozed my land and home and blocked food from me and my family, that there are things I would
feel compelled to do to strike back at the oppressor.

Originally posted by ATS4dummies
reply to post by die_another_day

 

Then why are Palestine bombing Israeli schools, bus stops, pizza parlors....

C'Mon man! you MUST be JOKING!

How does that compare to Israel's actions.

C'Mon man! you MUST be JOKING!

reply to post by Britguy


OK after removing name calling and opinions and just sticking with the facts in the stories, here what I distilled from:
=====================================
LInk #1 (from Brit Guy)
...No-one was injured in the incident...Israel says patrolling these waters is a vital security measure to stop weapons being smuggled into Gaza.
Muncie, 34, of Dalbreagha, Spean Bridge, is working with the Free Gaza movement ...in an attempt to breach Israel's blockade
The Gaza Strip's waters have been patrolled by the Israeli navy since a blockade was imposed after Hamas took control of the Strip... Israel allows in limited supplies of food, fuel and aid but last year tightened economic sanctions in response to rocket attacks by militants on Israeli towns near Gaza.

the gunboat's heavy machine gun opened up, spraying the wake around our hull with bullets (I Notice they were *** intentionally trying not to hit the boat ***... --- that means they are WARNING shots to not approach any further. - I have no problem with that.)

======================================
Link #2 (from Brit Guy)
(THe first 80% is.. "life is hard for us Paliestine Fishermen" but what blows my mind is he goes on to say at the last paragraph: )
He argued Hamas bears little responsibility for the crisis and had no criticism of their rocket fire into Israel, even though it kills civilians and has provoked Israel into its blockade. But later Hissi said that life was better in the 1980s when Israel had a full military occupation in Gaza, even with the thousands of settlers, soldiers and checkpoints that entailed, and that the Palestinian Authority, the creation of the Oslo accords, had proven "useless."

"We were expecting a real Palestinian state and that we'd be able to work and move freely but it never came," he said. "Now instead they've put Gaza under siege."

======================================
Link #3 (from Brit Guy)
(Removing more name calling and opinions and sticking with the facts here...)
[Israel]...continued to seal off the Gaza Strip for the thirteenth day in a row, allowing only a limited number of trucks loaded with commodities and food to enter the Strip.

The Israeli gunboats surrounded the fishing boats and arrested Andrew Muncie, 34, an Irish supporter, and four Palestinians.
(OK so these guys head directly into a blockade and get arrested.. No KIdding? It's a blockade - Why? Because Hamas is attacking Israel with bombs and rockets again! )

He said the incident with the Israeli navy took place four miles out to sea at 9.30am. "We had barely left Gaza's coastline behind when the gunboat's heavy machine gun opened up, spraying the wake around our hull with bullets."

I've been out with the fishermen on several occasions and seen them the Israeli navy also use explosive shells fired from a cannon, and explosive charges flung into the water near a boat," he said.
(Again... Gunfire and nobody is killed = warning shots to stay away from the blockade.)

Muncie ***claimed*** that in a separate incident on September 3, two fishermen were hospitalized and another fishing boat had been rammed and badly damaged in a separate incident last week.
(OK I'm fair, it ***sounds*** like someone got hurt, and if you plot a course straight into a blockade, I consider them lucky they didn't get themselves killed.)

Israeli gunboats open fire towards them (again warning shots) and throw sewage water at them. (LOL was that your noxious chemecals??? LOL well I didn't see that at all in the video but if it *did* happen It sounds more like a Monty Python prank - and if it *did* happen I admit that is DEFINITELY NOT NICE, it was non-lethal revenge and and WAS a hit below the belt - no pun intended LOL)
======================================

Link #4 (from Brit Guy)
The Israeli navy [was](Opinions and name calling removed) using live ammunition (nobody was killed - that's warning shots) and a high-powered water cannon containing a noxious chemical substance.
(Again, was this sewage or something like teargas? Just like the above artcle? I ask because here in America the police routinely use tear gas and that is DEFINITELY noxious, but I'm alive after breathing it... no problems so far, but I admit it made me want to run away at the time! LOL)

International Human Rights Observers (HROs) accompanying several fishing boats off the coast of Gaza approximately 8 nautical miles from shore reported that the Israeli navy constantly shot live ammunition extremely close to the boats, damaging many of the fishing nets in the process. (Again warning shots)
(OK THEY SAIL INTO THE BLOCKADE --- AGAIN!!! damn...)

The international HROs also reported the use of a high-powered water cannon that was continuously used against the boats. Not only does this water cannon regularly damages the fishing boats themselves, the HROs have reported that recently the water has contained a foul smelling chemical substance. It is assumed that this substance is the same that has been frequently used by Israeli forces against the non- violent protests against the construction of the annexation barrier in the West Bank villages of Bil’in and Ni’lin. The substance have however been taken for separate chemical analysis.
(OK - nobody was killed - so it is a deterrent - like tear gas... maybe if you didn't sail straight into a blockade - OH- what's the use, they are slow learners.)

The use of chemical substances by the Israeli navy on Gazan fishermen outside of internationally recognized Israeli territorial waters, such as that occurred today, also directly contradicts the Chemical Weapons Convention that took force in 1997 and that is ratified by 149 countries. Within the convention it is detailed that "Each state party undertakes not to use riot control agents as a method of warfare."
(Perhaps.. But I have to ask... do rockets fired by palestine/Hamas into Isreal towns violate the any treaties, or is that OK?)


[edit on 14-12-2008 by ATS4dummies]

reply to post by Britguy



The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), while citing the Chemical Weapons Convention, has made repeated statements on the use of chemical weapons, whether deemed 'lethal’ or 'non-lethal’, notably, "It should be emphasized that in situations of armed conflict this absolute prohibition applies to all biological and chemical agents, whether labeled "lethal" or "non-lethal"
(What does the red cross say about exploding rockets into Israel Schools and Pizza Parlors? Has the Red-cross determined that one?)

[edited out- more descriptions of "Life is hard")

========================================

BritGuy thank you for those links...
What I have determined is:
1) pointing your boat straight into a blockade is dumb
2) Hamas/Palestine should take all that money spent on bombs and buy the Palestinians some food

It's a beautiful Sunday.
I'm logging off cyberspace.
Take care everybody.
-ATS4DUmmies

[edit on 14-12-2008 by ATS4dummies]

Im realy not going to get into who is right or wrong historically, although, I do have a wish that I hope to see fulfilled. It is this.....that all those in the world who hurt the children of the world, no matter what banner or excuse they use, be removed. If that means that we have ww3, ascension or 7 plagues, I dont care.

The children of the world are our next generation. I hope they forgive us for what we do to them in places all over the world in the name of religion or politics.

Do you realy wonder, for one second, why they grow into the next generation of terrorists.

The human race with its politics, hatred and religion needs ended. There needs to be a new start.

Respects

reply to post by AlienChaser

ZeroKnowledge, Please provide news links confirming this for the last 10 days.

Ok.

Some 20 Kassam rockets and mortar shells pounded the western Negev over the ...

www.imra.org.il...
Want another one?

In the latest violation of the faltering Gaza truce, terrorists in the ..

www.imra.org.il...
As for Gaza being Israeli?? - as i said, area surrounding Gaza is Israeli - which means around Gaza, not Gaza itself. Check the map.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UN_Partition_Plan_Palestine.png"

[edit on 14-12-2008 by ZeroKnowledge]

[edit on 14-12-2008 by ZeroKnowledge]

reply to post by Chris McGee

I was just fixing to say . . . isn't there a border with Egypt? Just a couple weeks ago I read a small article in the paper where some mortars or rockets had been fired into Israel from Gaza, and I believe it said two Israeli's were killed.

Just how is it that Israel keeps getting attacked and when they respond, it's suddenly Israel's fault?

Israel shuts down it's border, and yet there are border crossings with Egypt, their "brother Arabs," and yet this whole thing is the fault of the Israeli government.

Funny how the rockets, mortars, and plenty of weapons and ammo get into Gaza. But they can't bring in food?

I say tough **it. They have their priorities all wrong. Instead of shipping in weapons, maybe the idiots should be bringing in food.

reply to post by ATS4dummies

Starting in April each year, there is a migration of fish from the Nile Delta to Turkish waters which Palestinian fishermen have traditionally relied upon. Yet Israel limits fishing 6 miles from the Gaza shore and regularly attacks those who venture further than 3 miles - over 70 fishermen were arrested last year by the Israeli forces. The large schools that form the migration are usually found 10 miles from shore. The average catch of fish was over 3000 tons a year in the 1990’s, now it is around 500 tons directly due to the Israeli siege of Gaza.

(read on www.uruknet.de... )

Gaza's fishing industry has been hit particularly hard. Under the 1993 Oslo accords, Gazan fishermen were to be allowed 20 nautical miles out to sea. According to Oxfam, fishermen are now only allowed six miles out to sea - not far enough out to reach the schools of large fish - and risk being shot or arrested if they breach this limit.

(read on www.sundayherald.com... )

The point is not there is a blockade, but an illegal blockade violating the stipulations agreed to by Israel itself when they signed the Oslo accords..




[edit on 14-12-2008 by Phatcat]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by t0ken

 

Would you be so kind and show me the source for that? And as for very uneducated farmers remark - border between Israel and Gaza did not change, all the Jews were evicted from Gaza. What Israeli settlers are you talking about?

You don't worry,plenty of sources.

Isreali settlers attack olive farms

NI’LIN, WEST BANK, 7 October 2008 (IRIN) - As the olive harvest gets under way in the West Bank, residents of the Palestinian town of Ni’lin say much of their land, where their trees are, is off limits because of Israel’s Barrier.

Source

Israeli forces have shot dead a Palestinian farmer in the village of Yamoun in the north of the West Bank.

news.bbc.co.uk..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Source

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Chris McGee

 

I say tough **it. They have their priorities all wrong. Instead of shipping in weapons, maybe the idiots should be bringing in food.

Eating food won't stop the zionists from occupying more Palestinian lands.Zionists only understand the bomb language and bombs they will eat till the Palestinian lands are returned.

Israel knows Peace will only take place when the illegaly occupied lands are returned but instead they are dreaming of extending zionist land all the way to eupharetes.

reply to post by t0ken


The blockade is in the Gaza. What you show happenes in West bank - no hunger there though. Thanks God.
So since this thread is about Gaza situation i was expecting you to show me just that. Let me clarify then:
Where in Gaza lands are stolen by Israeli settlers? You can start with: where in Gaza are Israeli settlers?
As for West bank and its problems - ok, it happens there. Israeli settlers also got shot there. Both things kind of suck , don't you think?

FLyers & 44, perhaps we should attack the US for supporting a despot regime in Israel who has committed genocide against the Palestinians since the end of ww2. Perhaps the World should attack the American terrorists who support and wage war against others around the World. perhaps the US should mind its own business and try and look after its own people, perhaps Americans should wake up and smell the cofffee. Pehaps Americans are too stupid to realise whats going on.

Perhaps Israel should be taken to task that it supports and carries out crimes against humanity, perhaps the World should step in to stop the slaughter of the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people have every right to exist in their own land free from the fear of murder and persecution and instead of supporting it US citizens should petition the Government to bring about change in the ME instead of acting like a group of mind controlled sheeple.

reply to post by t0ken


I thought the definition of a Zionist was a person who wanted to establish an independent Jewish nation.

Unless my book is wrong, that happened in 1948.

So your references to Zionists is somewhat inaccurate. Sounds like something bad. Maybe you need to find another word.

Israel is there. They are going to stay. Technically, they won the West Bank territory through conquest when they were to have in turn been wiped out.

You have any idea how current nations borders were determined? Conquest.

Some win, some lose. You lose, you adapt or get the hell out. In my opinion, and I'm just a blue-eyed Gentile, Israel should include all the West Bank in the territory known as Israel. It's theirs. They won it. But then again, my ancestors used to raid all of Europe, and not as enlightened as me, would just kill the hell out of the occupants as they came upon them.

some here think palestinian attack israel because they are just evil?
they are attacking because:

israel is destroying their homes and crops
stealing their lands
building settlements on palestinian land
blockading and starving innocent civilians

so you really expect the palestinians to stop their fight and wait? wait for what? to be swallowed by an israeli state and live in even worse conditions?
I blame it all on israel, they created thsi situation

This is inhumane.

Not all Palestinians are evil suicide bombers or calling for death to all Israelis.

Not all Israelis are rabid land hungry grudge holders who think that the world is still in Biblical times.

As for the UN moving in...well I think that are just puppets but maybe they can ensure that food aid gets in and distributed.

The rest of the world needs to send food aid in. This will send a message to Israel that rest of us condemn their inhumanity to their fellow man.

I hate this bloody world

res

[edit on 14-12-2008 by resistancia]

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Perhaps .....

Perhaps you should get educated.

The muslims waged war against Israel. They tried to take it over.
The muslims lost. They also lost their land to Israel.
Israel is under NO obligation to give land back to people who
tried to take them over. None. They won the war.

List of Palestinian attacks
fatalities list
More Palestinian Attacks
Israeli gov't lists victims of Palestinian Violence

ADL lists major terrorist attacks by Palestinians

Originally posted by TheOracle
some here think palestinian attack israel because they are just evil?

Yes. And stupid. Very stupid.

reply to post by FlyersFan


They are racist and bigots. They hate the Jews, both race and faith wise. There is plenty of land elsewhere. But nope, they want the only place in the ME with no oil. They want to, and do on a weekly basis, kill women and children because they are Jewish. Oh, those poor Palestinians, blowing up school buses and school buildings and grocery stores.