Students to be taught there isn't a God

reply to post by papabryant


Dude, how did you get a BA and you still can't spell?

If you believe in God or not........

Its the same coin on diffrent sides........

You still believe........

You can only experience something if you have knowledge of it.......

if something does not exist you wouldnt know it dosent exist......

Find another school, or better yet, start a college that fits your ideal description, that's how those schools were started.

HAhahahaha! Most 'religious' schools in the USA were formed when American schools were forced to drop segregation. It was an easy way to get around an uncomfortable civil law.
Religion keeps people ignorant - we're sposed to be denying ignorance here.

reply to post by WatchNLearn



well perhaps but I consider the effects of 'no faith' especially when I read just recently that the Chinese People are committing suicide every two minutes, Chinese committing suicide every two minutes China is a communist country, is communism creeping into an already over-policed Australia?

I wonder also if there are Constitutional issues with this? God is well entrenched and indoctrinated within the Constitution...

It could be a rather timely inititiate, especially with the rumours circulating about calling another referendum for a Republic.

Get rid of the Monarchy and God?










[edit on 18-12-2008 by Thurisaz]

reply to post by cruzion


I disagree. It has nothing to do with racial desegregation. The increase in private religious schools coincided with the banning of prayer and Bible lessons in public school. Your confusion is understandable as this also took place in the 60's but here you go:

The court decided that government-directed prayer in public schools was an unconstitutional violation of the Establishment Clause. This was decided in a vote of 6-1, because before the decision could be announced, Justice Frankfurter suffered a cerebral stroke that forced him to retire, and Charles Whittaker resigned in March 1962.

Engel Vs. Vitale

And:

Abington Township School District v. Schempp (consolidated with Murray v. Curlett), 374 U.S. 203 (1963), was a United States Supreme Court case argued on February 27–28, 1963 and decided on June 17, 1963. In the case, the Court decided 8-1 in favor of the respondent, Edward Schempp, and declared school sponsored Bible reading in public schools in the United States to be unconstitutional. The case was part of a string of Supreme Court cases ruling on the place of religion in public schools, and was both condemned by some religious conservatives and celebrated by those who supported constitutional separation of church and state.

Arbington Vs. Schempp

Because the government began to prohibit religions in public schools, many private schools opened as a result in the 60's. It was not due to desegregation in the 60's.

reply to post by AshleyD


Indeed, that too, but I would guess, you being a good christian soldier and all that, it is probably something that wasn't mentioned at your house, or school. We did a day on it, along with some court cases which were connected to it, in history 1302. Seems to the people teaching it, i.e the history teachers, that it was a commonplace knowledge.

I am neither blind nor dishonest. When the civil rights movement in the US got underway Martin Luther King Jr. noted that the most segregated hour in the United States was Sunday morning when white and black went to their separate churches. The African Methodist Episcopal church was founded for blacks because blacks were not allowed in white churches. The largest Protestant denomination in the US is the Southern Baptists. They split from the other Baptists before the Civil War because they were in favour of slavery. It is a fact that Christian religious school were set up to avoid mixing their children with black children after the US Supreme Court desegregated the schools. Although Christians have supported civil rights in the United States some at the cost of their lives more Christians have supported racial bigotry. It is also a fact that fundamentalist Christianity has supported racism.

Seems other people think along the same lines as me, and very succinctly put.

Here's an article on Segregation in religious schools.

And another....

And another....

This one is juicy!


[edit on 18-12-2008 by cruzion]

reply to post by cruzion


Quick question: Are you focusing on English schools or American? My cases dealt with American religious issues, laws, and education but all of your links refer to English controversies, with the exception of your non sourced first quoted paragraph. I can defend my position dealing with America but have to plead ignorance on recent English civil history. I don't know much about what went/goes on over there. Where is your top quoted text taken from? There were most certainly segregated churches back then and there are 'self-segregated' churches today although anyone can attend church wherever they want.

Originally posted by cruzion
HAhahahaha! Most 'religious' schools in the USA were formed when American schools were forced to drop segregation. It was an easy way to get around an uncomfortable civil law.
Religion keeps people ignorant - we're sposed to be denying ignorance here.

And where is your proof for this statement? I am sorry but I have to call BS on this one. Religious schools have been around at longer than that.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by AshleyD


See pages 24 and 25.
books.google.com... S3r8pIXw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=26&ct=result

Forty years ago, "Christian" schools sprang up in the South as segregation academies. Today, we threaten to create new segregation academies by funding schools that have declared new categories of outcasts.

www.post-gazette.com...

Still ongoing:

Religious private schools most segregated in U.S.

harvardscience.harvard.edu...

I can't find what I am specifically looking for, and I'm not about to go trawling through my text books.
The 2 most likely sources I can find online, both want money..
journals.cambridge.org...;jsessionid=05BDE427C65FA44E24E1C035BE4D70B8.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=7917
www.questia.com...
Hey, maybe it is a conspiracy by the board of education?
I thought it common knowledge that post Brown vs BOE decision illicited a rash of new religious and private schools to circumvent segregation.
They were even taking tables and chairs from public schools to furnish their new 'white' faith-based schooling.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Originally posted by cruzion
HAhahahaha! Most 'religious' schools in the USA were formed when American schools were forced to drop segregation. It was an easy way to get around an uncomfortable civil law.
Religion keeps people ignorant - we're sposed to be denying ignorance here.

And where is your proof for this statement? I am sorry but I have to call BS on this one. Religious schools have been around at longer than that.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Religious schools have been around as long as there has been religion, I don't think anyone would dispute that. What we are focussing on is the growth of religious schools after the Brown vs Board of education decision to ban segregation, and the continuing use of segregation by religious schools.
I mean come on, 100-150 years ago, you wouldn't have ever seen a black man in a white church! You think it would be too much for your oh so godly to construe creating a private school to keep the blacks out? Wake up and smell the coffee.

reply to post by cruzion


Ah so thusly ALL religious schools the very principles for which they were founded just MUST be racist in nature right?
If you do not see the problems with that logic I am afraid I can't help you.




[edit on 19-12-2008 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Everything you know you must have knowledge of...you know of nothing if you dont have knowledge of it....you cant experience anything you have no knowldge of...so if someone says God exists...and another says God dosent exist ...both replies give life to God........

So let them teach...either way God is brought to life......

Today we will be talking about something that dosent exist...because i have no knowledge of it....so let us begin.........

[edit on 19-12-2008 by Moose Head]

reply to post by WatchNLearn


WatchNLearn:

I agree with a lot of people here on your thread, that the belief in the existence of God or not, should be taught by the parents. This is of course based on their experience. It is a very personal choice and the school system should not educate the child on this matter.

I agree, that as the child grows older, he/she will not doubt come to their own understand of what their belief is in a divine Creator, called God.


Peace to you,
Grandma

All of you people are fools, shameful that you're still playing the game, can't you see that that is part of the plan, Who cares about anything, when you analyze the facts all that they're doing is dividing the population....Fools!!
(I type this with the out most respect for my fellow slaves)
Catholics VS Christians....Muslims VS Jews.... Gays VS Marriage....Good VS Evil...God VS Satan.....Black VS White....Republicans VS Democrats.....Capitalism VS Fascism.....Illegal Aliens VS Citizens...Terror VS FEAR.....it is all design to keep US divided!!

Wake the Hell UP!!...Their plan is working and meantime they've keep giving themselves raises and taking all the money with them along with our civil liberties...don't fall for this game....we are all equal and we all bleed the same...while our troops are dying the corporations have become wealthier, a dead soldier family would receive $500.000 compensation but guess what, it all goes back to the system and to the same corporations that issue the money with interest (Taxes).....I've lost hope for humanity where it should be US it is always ME......

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by cruzion

 

Ah so thusly ALL religious schools the very principles for which they were founded just MUST be racist in nature right?
If you do not see the problems with that logic I am afraid I can't help you.

Let me repeat part of my last post, as I don't think you quite read it correctly...

Religious schools have been around as long as there has been religion, I don't think anyone would dispute that. What we are focussing on is the growth of religious schools after the Brown vs Board of education decision to ban segregation, and the continuing use of segregation by religious schools.

Did I ever say ever, that ALL religious schools were founded to promote racism? Not not at all. You just made that up.
As for teaching children about God - sure, why not? If you are just telling them about the christian God, I would have a problem with that, but if it is Gods and Godesses of lots of different cultures, I have no problem with children learning history and social science - the more the merrier. It's good for children to see different aspect of the world.
It starts getting a bit iffy when there is an indoctrination agenda and bias going on in the background. I really wouldn't want my children to be as closetted, blinkered and ignorant of the world, as most middle-american religious are.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by cruzion]

reply to post by cruzion


I can agree and applaud you on that as far as your children go.
But the bias goes both ways. Which is largely what the whole debate and this thread is about. The Christians want to instill their bias upon the next generation. The atheists want to do the same for the same reason. Sure BOTH sides cover it in lots of deflective bull# but that is it pure and simple. Of course that doesn't include EVERY individual in the aforementioned groups but it does make up at least a majority. And of course one with such a bias would see the other side as being made mostly up of the bad types and their's having "pure" reasons. Which is of course textbook demonization. All the while both sides are pretty damn similar despite their ideological differences.
And on and on the silly cycle goes.
Seeing as to how we soo love our stupidity.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Religion shouldn't be taught in schools (which religion, which version of which religion, which idea of a supreme being[s]?). Yet the idea that mankind has only theories about our origins should be stressed as well. We have ideas, we have some supporting evidence of those ideas, but we don't know the whole story, and perhaps never will.

Teach what we know but also teach that we don't know nearly enough. If every child could graduate with a desire for more information outside the classroom, then I believe they have been taught well.

Atheists are atheists because of lack of proof.
The religious are usually religious because that is what they are taught.
They aren't similar at all.
Almost all atheists BECOME atheists, through their own reasoning. There will be some that are indoctrinated, because of peers and parents, but on the whole, it is individualistic. The odd thing is, most atheists I know became atheists after they were religious, so that would uphold the theory most atheists aren't indoctrinated.
Now, the few people that I know that became religious later on in life, did so because of some trauma to them or someone they loved. And in all cases, they were councelled by someone religious. Typically, they were at a low point, and probably vunerable. Yes, they had a need, but they could have been comforted without directing them to a faith.
I can't imagine an atheist comforting someone, and then egging them into atheism.

Religion should be taught in schools. It should be an elective but every school should has it as an option. Religion is a major part of history, how every country is today and what is going to become of tomorrow. A lot of people consider this the most important aspect of life and some people don't want this taught is schools?

A good teacher can teach a subject in from an unbiased point of view. How much faith can we have in our children if we don't even want them to be taught different views?

I will let my children know what my beliefs are but at some point I am going to have to let them chose on their own.

reply to post by Styki


You see, I see it quite the opposite.

We can only teach our children that which we KNOW.
Faith isn't knowledge, faith is just that, blind faith. Hence, it can't be taught.
Hence, it can't be a subject in a scholarly facility.

The history of religion, sure, as that's history.


If I were to raise children, no, I wouldn't teach them my religious views. When they get curious, I'll provide them with documentation on ALL beliefs, ALL religions, and of course, all non faith options as well, they can chose from there.

Faith is supposed to be decided upon by you and you alone. Telling people "This is your god, and he is who you will pray to" is just wrong.

I won't be telling any children of my views, not until they've decided on their own.
Anything else, is persuasion.