Help me to enlightenment

edit: a reply to Sylvie

In my experience I find the ego to be totally useless. It can't really be lost forever either, maybe you can get rid of it but it is easy to get back. It's just this useless little thing that attaches baggage to your exeperience, baggage that just gets in the way.

It doesn't help in any way. All the additions, the sugar coatings, the manufactured negativity, optimism, the hope, the doubt, the fear, the love etc. all these things just get in the way of the truth and richness of your experience. Note that I said manufactured, manufactured by your ego. When it comes from your ego it's useless, when it is undeniably free of that you still have the love, fear, optimism, negativity, all of it etc. It's just real, it's not a obstacle unless it is falsely manufactured by something.

In fact I used to think of it more like that author did before. I thought losing the ego meant that you lost yourself. This just happens to be what every person reading Buddha that lacks their own experience thinks it means. All it means though in practice is that you stop lying to yourself about what you are, you see yourself for what you are and let yourself be what you are. It's a huge source of peace, whether I'm doing it perfectly or not.

Your experience is good to hear because we can learn from everyone's experiences. I think you have come to a misunderstanding though, and I said why above.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by Novise]

My ego is still very much apart of me, I agree the ego cannot be completely dissolved (yet?). I believe that there is a point where an individual can go no further without all the people he is surrounded with and in contact with going with him.

Any loss of identity only happens within the context of popular society. But popular society is so deeply based in ego that it is spiritually taxing for everyone in it.

Without ego, there is no fear, no hate, no desire to dominate, no worry. The more people try to be come enlightened, the more society could potentially progress into a utopia. Imagine if all the people on earth were "enlightened". There would be no enslavement through debt. There would be no abuse. No war. No fighting.

But that [hypothetical] world would be drastically different. No make up, no advertisement, no television, no college degrees, no resumes, no harmful foods, no banks, no currency, no worshiping of celebrities, no hierarchies. That is the biggest loss of identity, is no hierarchy participation. You don't really care if you're better than someone, competition sort of becomes...unfulfilling.

In this current world, if you don't know where your place is, in terms of how 'good' you are, how useful you are to the systems, .etc then you do not know who you are. Many are struggling, and it is your physical accomplishments that show how valuable you are. When in reality, everyone is the same value. An infinite amazing value. When you really think of what an ego-less society would entail, it can seem like a really terrible and frightening place. Almost robotic, no individualism, no I'm more important than her or him because I've done this or I have this ability. No more, if you cannot do this, you are not valuable to me in my journey to make it farther to the top. But it is actually when the expressions through constant competitions are put aside that the expressions of togetherness and art and creativity and appreciation show. Those are the true expressions of individuality.

Being without ego can be very hard, and those with more dissolved egos can often become outcasts (look at Jesus). Most of our fullfilment comes from egoic materialism. When the fulfilment of just one creative act with brothers and sisters, not competition, is a million times more fulfilling. But it is hard to see that, that is not what we are taught or experience regularly. That is why we as a people have not tried to adapt to egolessness yet. But I am a firm believer the evolution of man is heading in the direction of ego dissolving, as ego no longer serves a purpose any more..it only hurts us, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically. How long that may take, and if we don't destroy ourselves before...I do not know.

Enlightenment is a good thing to seek. I'd say the 'best' thing to seek now, but that type of classifying is ego-based

Also...I think the biggest conspiracy of all is how those at the top want to keep society ego based as much as possible, and introduce things like standards of beauty for everyone to compare themselves to and feel jealous and terrible, .etc. Though, as Jesus said, love your enemy. We must understand the 'evil' powers that be only want to enslave us because they are afraid. They are afraid of being less than gods. They are afraid of equality. If they could see how better off everyone, including themselves, would be. They would change their mind. Equality is fun. Competition only goes very little.



[edit on 17-12-2008 by Reddupo]

1) the most important thing about beginning to meditate is being completely comfortable, if there is some noise in the background (i dont know you situation, but i could hear my parents tv downstairs) you can listen to some calming music (on repeat). I know of people not being able to do it listening to music, but I cant go deep without it (i know im probably tricking myself), so usually i'll put on something repetitive, ambient techno, or even something with soft voices, and it eventually lets me kind of "sink" into the music (you start to hear the sounds in between sounds, its really trippy)

2) i've done it every day, whatever feels comfortable for you

3) my deepest meditations have been in my bed, right before i go to sleep, just laying flat (i remember reading something saying that to astral project, you can lay flat, then point your forearm straigt up, and if you fall asleep it will wake you up, when your arm falls) but again, whatever is the most comfortable

4 (there was two number 3's) I'd say any book is good, they will increase your belief (after not being able to access that part of the cosmos for 18 years), and spark your curiousity even more. I suggest looking up tibetin, and buddhist practices on it, and other "powers" the tibetin monks posses, even religious books should bring you closer to AP, and deep meditation, just realize that you are on the same path as the holy/gifted people in those books, and it should help greately

I don't understand enlightenment or if meditation will get you there. I thought all along that everyone is already enlightened enough to know that there is nothing more than existing with your current senses (or more, if any). I suppose enlightenment is when you relax enough to allow you mind to see that there is always light at the end of a tunnel after each dark event in one's life or something like that. Never mind, I tried!

[edit on 2008-12-18 by pikypiky]

Originally posted by Belgiannewbie
Hi guys i have a few questions about meditating and reaching enlightenment, higher concious state, astral projection etc. I've been reading up on it and i've became very interested in this and i want to know

1)How do i begin meditating, what is there to know about it ? and maybe some tips..

2) On what daily/weekly basis should i meditate?


3) Where, how, when and howmuch each day/week?


3) Any good books about it ?


Greetings from a belgian 18yr old boy! =)

You don't necessarily need meditation, but if you do practice it, it will help a lot. The important thing is for you to reflect on your life, existence. To have moments of peace and quiet surroundings when you can reflect your own understandings of reality.

First you need the desire to know things, before you are ready to receive knowledge or answers. If you want to be enlightened then ask for it first to yourself and then to the world around you. Ask and you shall receive.

Seek it and life will guide you on that road. It's all about your will and inner desire. Try to see the beauty of life in all aspects of your reality, there's a hidden message in all actions.

There is no fix set of guidelines I can tell you to follow, each enlightenment is unique and very personal.

If you want to read books that can change your life here are some:

Conversation with God Vol 1, 2, 3 by Neale Donald Walsch
Journey of Souls By Michael Newton

There are more, there are plenty, the only question is if you really want to be enlightened? Life will bring into your life the experience you asked for.

Good luck!

Dear Sir:

The great mystery of the universe is who is it's creator. The mystic seeks unity with the creator. To know the creator and be at one with the creator is the mystic's highest calling.

I think it's important to consider the natural state of man and the nature of the higher being we wish to be enlightened by and receive higher consciousness from.

Most spiritual groups see man as in a fallen state struggling to regain what he once had, or seeking some form of salvation, redemption, regeneration, transformation, enlightenment, illumination and unity with the divine power or powers that be.

I see the state of man as being stuck in a feedback loop of wanting continually desiring, and desiring continually wanting. Some people say(and believe) that everything a person does from the time they are born is because they want something.

Since man has a nature that he is stuck with, it seems reasonable to me that his escape from his natural existence would involve something supernatural.

William Law (you can google the name) is not well known to many Christians, or the public. In the late 1600's he was at odds with mainstream Christianity and wrote several books. He stated as follows:

"While man is under the power of nature, governed only by worldly wisdom, his life, no matter how old he might be, is still quite childish. That is because everything about him serves only to awaken childish thoughts and pursuits in him: all that he sees and hears; all that he desires and fears; all that he likes and all that he dislikes; all that he has and all that he has not; all that he gets and all that he loses; serves only to carry him from one fiction of evil to another fiction of good, from one vanity of peace to another vanity of trouble".

William Law called it "a life governed by the earthly passions of covetousness, envy, pride and wrath".

A rather miserable state even from an earthly perspective, let alone the divine perspective.

So, It would seem to some that there is no escape from our earthly existence unless something supernatural comes along to raise us above our natural state.

Is there a supernatural force that could effect a man's transformation from an earthly person to a supernatural, enlightened, illuminated being?

William Law wrote that the way to enlightenment begins with a desire to imitate the divine nature. "Put off the old man and put on the new man" as the scripture says. The new man being like Jesus.....a heart of humility, kindness, compassion, meekness, do to others as you would have them do to you, love your neighbour as yourself, do no man any harm, etc.

From what I gather after reading some of William Law's writings is that the imitation phase leads to a transformation and enlightenment which doesn't happen all at once. He speaks about the "day star" rising in one's heart and turning his/her world upside down. Your highs become low and your lows become high. Wisdom becomes foolishness and foolishness becomes wisdom. Prosperity and adversity, praise and dispraise become equally nothing".

Well, I hope this does not contribute to any one's mental illness.

I do however think that all of the world's problems are the result of mankind's selfishness and it will take a supernatural force to change his heart and the world.

I see nothing wrong with people taking up kindness, humitly, or choosing to do no harm to anyone.

Hmmm? Maybe the keys to the kingdom are within us?

Originally posted by John Matrix
Dear Sir:

The great mystery of the universe is who is it's creator. The mystic seeks unity with the creator. To know the creator and be at one with the creator is the mystic's highest calling.

[...]

From what I gather after reading some of William Law's writings is that the imitation phase leads to a transformation and enlightenment which doesn't happen all at once. He speaks about the "day star" rising in one's heart and turning his/her world upside down. Your highs become low and your lows become high. Wisdom becomes foolishness and foolishness becomes wisdom. Prosperity and adversity, praise and dispraise become equally nothing".

[...]

I do however think that all of the world's problems are the result of mankind's selfishness and it will take a supernatural force to change his heart and the world.

I see nothing wrong with people taking up kindness, humitly, or choosing to do no harm to anyone.

Hmmm? Maybe the keys to the kingdom are within us?

I quoted these paragraphs because I find them very important in their message. I am not familiar with William Law, but his message is the same as many others before and after him. He is spot on. The message never changes, it is the same, centuries after centuries, we get the same message, but will we ever change as a whole?

Our desire to become one with the creator is the force behind all our actions. Still in all this struggle we are too creators, since that is where we came from and going towards. Big or small, we are all parts of the same thing. And in the end we're all one.

It is very true that once you get enlightened, your whole value sistem changes, and William Law said it best: "Your highs become low and your lows become high. Wisdom becomes foolishness and foolishness becomes wisdom."

Excellent quotation. I have experienced that myself. It will transform you, it will change you. It is rather hard to look at life in the same way after you felt God or being enlightened.

The problem is indeed our human nature. We think we are separate, different, thus selfish and ego-centric. But that is nothing but a construction, a false image of our true nature. In our hearts we are the same, united, one. At a core level, we are the same energy expressing different realities. That is our wall we have to conquer, our false impression that we are separate, different.

Then the question is, maybe we desired this separation so that once we get united we can appreciate better our true nature, who we really are. Maybe this is the whole purpose of creation, to better understand yourself, to better see who you are.

Sometimes you have to be thirsty to really enjoy a glass of water. Maybe when you're thirsty for millenias, you will feel the true ecstasy of saturation and the absolute. That which you truly are in the end.

"Maybe the keys to the kingdom are within us?" Indeed they are. All answers are in you. There is none you cannot answer, but sometimes, when you ask the question you are not ready to receive the answer, so be patient, it will come, but only when you are ready.

There is no way you can fail, there is no eternity in hell, those are all constructions, the only end is full unity with that which is all, love.

Hey might I suggest a thought here?

You ever notice.....and I fell prey to being this way for5 too long... that people who claim enlightenment or who talk about enlightenment and spirituality and all that very misleading metaphoric...stuff... sound like they are trying to be Jesus or Ghandi or something?

Do they know what they are talking about?

I don't think they do.

I think they would regret ultimate enlightment... I think they would regret knowing and being in that state for the rest of their lives.

I think the pain would overwhelm them, and I think that 99 percent of all self proclaimed "light beings" are #ing living an egotistical fantasy.

Stay here, dude. Live in the moment. Don't live for some holy quest, because it will really disappoint you. Being of "simple mind" is so much more satisfying and real.

"I think they would regret ultimate enlightment... I think they would regret knowing and being in that state for the rest of their lives. "

I think this is another general misunderstanding of what enlightenment is. You guys are turning it into something unnattainable and masochistic and frankly self sadistic when you pretend you are literally "obliterating oneself" by walking the path.

Take Eckart Tolle's definition in "The power of now," he says that enlightenment is simply being able to disidentify from your thoughts. To not be stuck in the illusion that your thoughts are your identity/world. That is like 5-10% of the population right there, with 5% more headed in that direction, if you use that definition.

Buddha's definition is that it is the removal of the ego. I don't know what ego you guys think he is talking about, but the thing that he is talking about is something that is completely useless and just manufactures emotional and mental attachments that cloud our perceptions and experience, and by the way those attachments are the root of unhappiness. The ego is nothing you will miss, but it's nothing that will kill you either if you decide to keep it tagging along with you.

Really this idea that you "destroy" something when you become enlightened is a basic mistake most people make who start reading this stuff and haven't yet tried to see for themselves . You don't destroy anything you accept it for what it is, then realize you have transcended it, you can use it or not, your choice.

I'm not Buddha I'm not enlightened there are lots of better teachers out there than me, but I'm just seeing a huge misunderstanding here and it's deals with the basics which I think I have a grasp on.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


I appreciate your insights.

I have known people with a "God complex" who act like they are Jesus or Gandhi. They seek honor and praise among men.

Anyone who is unprepared for enlightenment would go insane if they were suddenly illuminated. The shock to the fallen intellect would put a person over the edge. It is said that even the most faithful and holy men in the scriptures fell on their faces and could not look upon the illuminating presence of their creator. To look upon the face of the creator is said to have been certain death.

Illumination is nothing to take lightly....at least as far as I can see.

Seeking divine illumination to satisfy an earthly desire, such as to feed an ego or to satisfy a fantasy about travelling through spiritual portals to other dimensions would be a disaster. As I understand it, the motivation must be pure. It must come from the divine seed found deep within the soul.

I agree it is important to live the moment and live a simple life. Taking up some holy quests or hearing voices is a bad sign. Seek help if this happens.

There is no point in being so heavenly minded that you are no earthly good to anyone.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


I agree with Novise that you may be entertaining a mis-characterization of the word "enlightenment."

The term is really pretty meaningless to me, and I use it simply whenever I think it's the best word for what I'm trying to express.

Here's something different: www.youtube.com...

That's GG Allin on the Jerry Springer show. You know what? I think that man is enlightened. My personal opinion, of course, but yes that is my opinion. In case you don't know who the man is (or was, I should say), he did shows with his punk band (he just calls it "rock 'n roll") where he would strip naked, self-mutilate, beat the hell out of his audience members, rape them on stage, defecate on stage, etc., etc. He said something along the lines of, 'My only two enemies are comfort and conformity.' And he really lived by that, to the extreme. He was arrested at least 52 times. He died of a heroine overdose shortly after getting out of prison, and after giving his last show, after which a mob of his fans surrounded him as he ran naked through NY causing mischief.

I guess my point is, whatever you learn, you can do with it as you please. "Do as thou wilt."

I also consider Ozzy Osbourne enlightened. Like I said, it's a pretty meaningless term really, and as others have said, it's more like a path of constantly seeking knowledge and understanding of what you are doing here, but that man has a lot more going on than most people realize, I'll say that much. He was studying deep occult stuff back in the 60's (learning principles which I promise you he still embodies to this day -- he proves it in his lyrics and music), was dropping acid just about every day through the 1970's. I'm not saying that's what it takes. I'm just saying that this is another very different example of someone who has learned to experience life above and beyond what most people are capable of. He was kicked out of the band Black Sabbath, a very successful and pioneering band, just to make it even bigger on his own, and is still a living legend to this day. A very under-estimated man, imo.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by bsbray11]

"Anyone who is unprepared for enlightenment would go insane if they were suddenly illuminated. The shock to the fallen intellect would put a person over the edge."

I agree with a lot in your post but what is with all the fear mongering? See I don't think you meant it as such but it comes across as such,

A few here are acting like enlightenment is scary. Like seeing a nasty ghost face to face and if you aren't prepared you will freak out and lose your mind...

It's the opposite in my experience completely peaceful and brought about gradually and by your own actions.

Though I did like parts of your post. Yes a simple life is ideal...

I know I'm not talking like Jesus or Buddha here, I'm not going to show up on famousquotes.org for this, maybe I'm way off. If I am then the best thing would be for someone to set me straight... But really I'm just trying to talk straight and just say what I mean.

reply to post by Novise


I see parallels in different teachings concerning "spiritual" enlightenment.
Yoga teaches about kundalini and the need to be prepared, exercise caution, etc. There is reference to the "shadow man" which I see as a parallel to what some call the old man with all his earthly passions, or the old nature, the fallen nature...etc. I recently read through this site: biologyofkundalini.com...

The mystics tend to believe enlightenment is not the result of human effort, but rather it is the result of a rebirth of the divine nature in the soul.

reply to post by Belgiannewbie

Think that you have every right as an ant or a bird and that you should be born with all the information of an ant or a bird and that is all you need.
Don't listen to anyone. Listen to yourself.

First, the word enlightenment is just as much polluted as the word god. For ones enlightenment will not be like another, and ones god doesn't seem the same as anothers god. Look at this life as a path (this has helped me anyways). The insufficiency of language limits the minds understandings...there are things you might feel or seek that really there are no words to compound it into speech.

If you feel like your desiring a enlightenment in this life right now....listen to what this says. All this is saying, to yourself, is pay attention.

Quite your thoughts, take time from each day to realize, you are a part of this flowing energy that is within all things, from the atom of a blade of grass, to the twinkling lights in the sky.

I think the accepting of the oneness of this energy is a humbling start for just....'paying attention'. We can easily go through our daily lives ignoring orders, harmonies, ect....but mabey....the universe is more aware of our awareness then what we think.

The path of a seeker or wanderer is a never ending path, it wont be found in a day, and wont ever be absolute, so make sure you arent seeking something for a fast fix of a void or escape. Through a path of seeking, you will face things about yourself, others, and this world.

If you crave knowledge, ask yourself what interests you. Is it space, is it the environment, is it people (histories and beliefs)....search what interests you, ponder on these things in your quite time, feel if there are nudges to search on a particular word or name or place.

I do believe in past lives (because we are all tied together somehow, somewhere, time does not exist)...so I feel that if someone is feeling a desire to 'find' something, the desire is coming from the self....this is a time to face fears, face things you find you dont like in others (for it reflects yourself in some way), accept others for who they are, these are the benefits to seeking what I like to call a 'humble path for self'. Which, only you can really find out what that is.

Do your dreams seem to be saying something to you? This is always something to keep an open mind to.

"When is a man in mere understanding? I answer, 'When a man sees one thing separated from another'. And when is a man above the mere understanding? That I can tell you: 'When a man sees All in all, then a man stands beyond mere understanding.'" Eckhart

"What is man? An angel, an animal, a void, a world, a nothing surrounded by God, indigent of God, capable of God, filled with God, if it so desires." Berulle

Good luck on your journey here....

Peace,
LV

new to this board but myself having just recently gettin into this whole sprituality thing over the past year would say this
Don't try to do everything at once
many times it seems that along with "enlightenment" and spirituality there seems to be so much rules and ideas and concepts that often it is too much for the mind to grasp at once...and you can come off sounding like a crazy person.
My best bet would be to start lookin at your life through and artistic perspective.
And by that I mean looking at what things really are...not just what they look like or how they look or are perceived.
I myself know that if I choose so , there is tons and tons of information, principles, practices theories healings and many other things to go along with it.However in my town it is kind of crazy because my freinds all started going to meditation and suddenly it has exploded now people who would of never taken the idea seriously do.
We dont say anything...when they ask us how we think why we do and why we practice these concepts I simply just say because it feels right.
What I'm tryin to say is don't go into it with a preconcieved notion of what you think it is...it just is
You cant explain enlightenment in words fully....

More importantly its not how much you know about this or how much you want it...as previously stated your ego could subconciously be tricking you into thinking this is an escape for something.
Enlightenment is whatever opens you up to the simply concept of curiosity.
It is not escape...more or less embracement and in my opinion an understanding of the tools of the universe and how they operate.
I treat my brain as I do my instruments.....always progressing
my opinion on the subject anyways

reply to post by Novise


It's refreshing to read your response. I agree with you that the ego is useless. It is an obstacle to enlightenment. As the ego grows, it becomes the anesthetic which dulls the mind and prevents one from experiencing the pain caused by one's own stupidity.

I see the ego as the self image we create as a result of our fallen nature. It is a facade that requires large amounts of mental and physical energy to maintain, defend and build, as well as rebuild when it is damaged.

Any satisfaction one experiences as a result of their ego is usually at the expense of others and it is always short lived. The ego is motivated by the earthly passions of covetousness, envy, pride and wrath.

A person on the path to spiritual enlightenment comes to understand the vanity of constructing, maintaining and repairing a self image(ego).

If one is going to escape from the vanity of constantly building, defending, and rebuilding one's self image, by necessity there must be something contrary to it that one can turn to.

The ego can be be removed from the throne of one's life, but until we part from this life there is always the possibility that it could return to reign again. But it can only return to the degree that one's faith, trust, and hope has turned from the divine nature.

The two natures are as different as the east is from the west. One cannot walk in both directions at the same time. The scripture says, "put off the old man and put on the new man". The new man is the divine nature incarnate, which for us is Christ. And so the scripture says, "put on a heart of kindness, compassion, humility, forgiving one another...." and "imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promise", and again, "in your patience you possess your souls".

The self image of the enlightened is a free gift. It does not require building, defending, or rebuilding. To seek rebirth, enlightenment and illumination requires one to seek the nature and characteristics of the divine creator as that which sits in the throne of one's heart and mind.

There can be no union with the divine without the divine sitting on the throne of one's life. For the divine only delights in the divine. There can be no delight for the divine in uniting with a soul that is only living to satisfy the earthly passions of a fallen nature.

By following the way of humility, meekness, patience, forgiveness, loving your neighbour, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, seeking no harm to come to anyone, and meditating on divine reason, you will be turning from all that you are to all that Christ is. I say Christ because he is the divine nature incarnate. There is no other way to redemption, being born again, being like Christ, showing faith in Christ, receiving enlightenment, illumination, or having union with the divine, than by putting one's faith, trust and hope in the divine nature of our creator, which is the Christ that raises us to a new life.

The divine nature redeems, transforms, enlightens, illuminates and unites us to the divine.


[edit on 21-12-2008 by John Matrix]

There is no enlightment....now have a coke and relax....

[edit on 21-12-2008 by Moose Head]

reply to post by marsha law


If we only listen to ourselves, we will soon find ourselves locked up in straight jackets. You can't shut out other people or the world and remain sane for long. You can learn a lot from others if you listen. You can avoid a lot of foolish errors if you listen. You can improve your relationships if you listen. Wars start and people die because selfish power hungry murderous morons won't listen.

reply to post by Novise


Personally, I found reading the "A New Earth" before reading the "Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle was the best way to go. I believe "A New Earth" was written to be a more simple explanation of awakening to who you really are.

To the OP, when you become aware of who you truly are, it changes your reality forever. When you come to the understanding that you are not the ego, but you are the awareness behind the ego, and that the awareness is eternal it changes you. You will loose your fear of death.

The opposite of life is not death. The opposite of death is birth. Life has no opposite because it is eternal, and you always have been, and always will be in the present moment. Time does not exist in the present moment. You can't think your way into the present moment, you can only be there.

When you separate your awareness from your ego, you have a place to go when you need to get away from the spin cycle of thought. The ego can not exist in the present moment.

Fortunately, or unfortunately people only get it when they are ready for it, and they want it. Everyone awakens differently, and in their own way.

Mankind is evolving from a ego thinking being to an awareness being. If we don't we are doomed as a race.

Enlightenment is awakening to who you really are. Awakening happens when you learn to separate your awareness from your ego. You are awareness disguised as a human.