ABC says conspiracy web sites are contributing to mental health issues

Originally posted by Yoda411
Angel, thanks for the entertainment. Ultimately you have conceded to defeat, unknowingly admitting to the contribution to the individual's mental illness. I hope you will also concede to your personal vendetta against me and others, as it is a poor contribution to the important questions at hand.

Thanks Yoda for doing a poor job of taking what out said so far out of context as to pretend that I actually made your point. Thanks for thanking me and running off before you get slammed any harder. The number of posts telling you how ignorant and wrong you are is starting to make up the majority of each page. Now you are running off? And you are calling it a win? Wow. No pride in how you count your wins eh? That is a shame.

Anyway, thanks for showing that the best you could do to win was pretend that what I said meant something other than what it actually meant, in or out of context. Thanks for showing that after all these pages, the closest you get to being vindicated is simply claiming so and running off. This proves my point better than anything I have said so far.

I believe sites like this could definitely effect people mentally in a negative way.

Just as telling a kid Santa Claus isn't real will hurt...
Just as finding your wife cheating on you will hurt...

The truth can be painful.
The truth can be difficult to accept and unpleasant.

Truthfully I don't think people are paranoid enough.

I think most people that DON'T visit websites like this a suffering a much worse mental illness.

The illness can be described by these words.

Naive, credulous, dupable, exploitable, gullible, susceptible

Originally posted by blowfishdl
Nazi like sites can be considered conspiracy based websites if they promote delusional conspiracy theories which support Nazism.

ABC can be considered a conspiracy website if they are offering propaganda instead of news.

AOL can be considered a conspiracy ISP if you read just about any post to any AOL headline.

So, this is how we win here? Changing the definition of words "fact, rebuked, etc..." and then we start claiming that this site and that site can be considered a conspiracy site if this and that. Wow, are you running a marathon? I hope you do something worthwhile with all this stretching.

I am really out this time. I thought I could read this and be quiet but there is just sooooo much stupidity.

Originally posted by sebarud
reply to post by Yoda411

 

You are right, the "angel" just proved that he is a liar. He changes standpoint by the minute, trolling away to keep the argument going. And he is working hard, the poor boy - over 100 posts just today!

Show me where I lied or changed my viewpoint once!

Let's hope his Duracell batteries runs out soon.

Sucks to have a voice of reason trample all over you fun doesn't it.

Are you libeling me? lying to try and make a point like Yoda did? or are you going to prove where I either lied or changed my opinion.

You can read the former prozac users attack on FDA

www.consumeraffairs.com...

You can watch the FDA hearing here:

au.youtube.com...://conspiracyrealitytv.com/fda-hearing-1991-with-testimony-on-prozac/

This one is very interesting:

Let me try another way to illustrate my point. At the beginning of this thread I mentioned the diathesis-stress model. Now, let's go back to the time when a person is growing up. When they're little a child is taught to respect and trust their parents and by extension any authority figure. This is pretty much the concept of filial piety, you grow up respecting your parents, so when you're an adult this will then transfer into respecting the government. Now, of course as you get older you begin to take issue with certain things the government may do, but in the end you still respect and trust for them to do the right thing.

Now, then imagine you come to a site like this and you are presented with such theories like the government is trying to control your mind, or that the people in power are going to end up killing all but 500,000,000 people. This can come as quite a shock to the system, as pretty much everything you've been taught is wrong. Will any of you admit that this wouldn't be a stressful situation if you found out everything you believe is a lie? Furthermore, not only is everything you believe a lie, but it was told to you by those people you should be able to trust the most, your parents. So, then one may ask themselves who they can trust if not their parents. I hope that it becomes easier to see how a site like this could contribute to mental illness. Say a person who is already genetically predisposed to schizophrenia were to experience this stress and mistrust at a particularly difficult point in their life. This then becomes a perfect melting pot for schizophrenic symptoms to occur. And in the end a conspiracy site would have been one of the contributing factors.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
Now, then imagine you come to a site like this and you are presented with such theories like the government is trying to control your mind, or that the people in power are going to end up killing all but 500,000,000 people. This can come as quite a shock to the system,........

This is not how any mental illness works. NOT ONE.

You make a great point - stresses at a certain time in their life.

What you fail to do is prove that a conspiracy site would do any more or less damage than any other stress in that person's life.

If the problem is proving the possibility that someone may snap in relation the time they were here, sure. They also may snap while going to the bathroom. Can anyone actually prove the point that the "news" article said? So far everyone is doing a great job of proving nonsense from the periphery that is not up for debate anyway.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

[edit on 17-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
Let me try another way to illustrate my point. At the beginning of this thread I mentioned the diathesis-stress model. Now, let's go back to the time when a person is growing up. When they're little a child is taught to respect and trust their parents and by extension any authority figure. This is pretty much the concept of filial piety, you grow up respecting your parents, so when you're an adult this will then transfer into respecting the government. Now, of course as you get older you begin to take issue with certain things the government may do, but in the end you still respect and trust for them to do the right thing.

Now, then imagine you come to a site like this and you are presented with such theories like the government is trying to control your mind, or that the people in power are going to end up killing all but 500,000,000 people. This can come as quite a shock to the system, as pretty much everything you've been taught is wrong. Will any of you admit that this wouldn't be a stressful situation if you found out everything you believe is a lie? Furthermore, not only is everything you believe a lie, but it was told to you by those people you should be able to trust the most, your parents. So, then one may ask themselves who they can trust if not their parents. I hope that it becomes easier to see how a site like this could contribute to mental illness. Say a person who is already genetically predisposed to schizophrenia were to experience this stress and mistrust at a particularly difficult point in their life. This then becomes a perfect melting pot for schizophrenic symptoms to occur. And in the end a conspiracy site would have been one of the contributing factors.

Yes it comes with growing up and realising your parents have been fed the same lies and you can only feel sorry for them and understand that msm have a way off pulling the strings.

People who are already schizophrenic are easily led to believe anything that is thrown at them, even the psychiatrist. The medication can also help in doing this as has been the case with my friend.

So those people who post anything regarding crackpot theories by msm may infact be troubled by any off the above already. So i doubt it can contribute if they are in the position they are in already.

So instead of saying who are the people who believe this in the quiet off their homes you can easily say who are the people who post such topics in the quiet off their homes. Little reverse psychology seems to kill the goat and everyone jumps up and down with mind pop, need some more red cordial?


Do you think i dont know who the supporters off the article are. If you touch on a soft spot/subject that is in relation to what alot of users on here may be doing then the other stuff you say is ignored. Eg. Marijuana so learn your lesson like i did and dont touch on a soft spot.

The same with msm they nitpick the little things and explode it up so big as to cause a following. Then the use of reverse psychology and making sure they keep relating it to a subject msm believers would agree on.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by meadowfairy]

Originally posted by meadowfairy
and plenty more posted in search. Oh an the fact that its amazing many on here are on depression drugs and im not surprised.

I've been staying out of this thread and focussing on the other, where my interest lies.

But this I can't let go.

Are you implying that depression is the same thing as delusion or paranoia?

(BTW, I am on antidepressants for long-term major depressive disorder, so you may want to keep that in mind when replying).

There was a mention in the other thread about one possible reason why a site like ATS is attractive to depressives: it has been found that depressives have fewer delusions about the world than the "well-adjusted" do. Depressives are more likely to be cynical, pessimistic, and consider themselves relatively unimportant in the scheme of things.

When compared to reality, they are more often right than the "well-adjusted."

reply to post by americandingbat


Thanks for being willing to be open about something that personal. The one thing ATS lacks the most is people who speak from experience.

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by meadowfairy
and plenty more posted in search. Oh an the fact that its amazing many on here are on depression drugs and im not surprised.

I've been staying out of this thread and focussing on the other, where my interest lies.

But this I can't let go.

Are you implying that depression is the same thing as delusion or paranoia?

(BTW, I am on antidepressants for long-term major depressive disorder, so you may want to keep that in mind when replying).

There was a mention in the other thread about one possible reason why a site like ATS is attractive to depressives: it has been found that depressives have fewer delusions about the world than the "well-adjusted" do. Depressives are more likely to be cynical, pessimistic, and consider themselves relatively unimportant in the scheme of things.

When compared to reality, they are more often right than the "well-adjusted."

Dont worry love i will bow down to you later, after i tell you my story dont assume you know me either. I suffered anxiety attacks from a contraceptive a doctor gave me he prescribed me paxil but after the doco and what happened to my friend i also seeked alternative arena's i lost all hope in the medical institution that was my awakening. I went on vitamin b12 and am on the raw food diet and no longer suffer it. Everybody's treatment is different. Not everyone believes in alternative therapies because off the bashing they have got with non credibility and i never knew about that till i got into it and actually changed my mind about alternatives when i got better and am happy i did. If drug companies keep doing this then instead of making profit they are awakening people to the effects, the only way they cna change this if they make their drugs better and stop pushing them through to cause situations to become worse.

Im sorry to say that anti depressants are what leads people to be prescribed psychotic drugs sooner or later. Anti depressants there is no difference between them and psychotic drugs. It was actually depression that got my friend there and then they advanced him to skitzophrenia and low behold the drugs are still called depression drugs for skitzophrenia. The sorry truth is its written on the box or you can google your tablets and skitzophrenia.

www.schizophrenia.com...
As you can see by the article drug companies support their own research and can be biased but you are taking psychotic drugs that they hush down with words like depression. SO you see people with mild depression dont need them it only makes you worse and if you stop cold turkey. Its called over medicating society and not teaching them nutrition.







[edit on 17-12-2008 by meadowfairy]

Originally posted by meadowfairy
Im sorry to say that anti depressants are what leads people to be prescribed psychotic drugs sooner or later. Anti depressants there is no difference between them and psychotic drugs. It was actually depression that got my friend there and then they advanced him to skitzophrenia and low behold the drugs are still called depression drugs for skitzophrenia. The sorry truth is its written on the box or you can google your tablets and skitzophrenia.

This is just how the pharmaceutical industry makes money. They come up with other reasons to take chemicals that are no longer selling as well and sell them as something else or say it does something else or is also really good for something else. I was prescribed seroquel to get me to sleep at night and nothing else.

Ser oquel homepage

That did not work after a week so I was given Trazodone until that did not work so they just took me off and stopped trying to get me to sleep at night. I never suffered any of the symptoms that these drugs are apparently supposed to be used for. What does this say about our medical professionals?

[edit on 17-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

Originally posted by meadowfairy
Dont worry love i will bow down to you later, after i tell you my story dont assume you know me either.

I'm not sure why you would want to bow down to me for suffering from a disease, but if that's what you do who am I to stop you

I completely agree that people with mild and/or transitory depressive states do not need antidepressants. And I completely agree that the pharmaceutical companies are among the most evil, money-grubbing, manipulative corporations in the modern world.

I'm not sure how you figure that because when antidepressants didn't help your friend the shrinks moved on to antipsychotics, therefore antidepressants are antipsychotics?

I did once stop – not cold turkey, that's a bad idea – and two months later things were not good. I am one of the people who genuinely needs antidepressants, for whom meditation, a solid spiritual life and practice, and good diet and exercise did not prove sufficient.

For all those who can avoid taking antidepressants and still enjoy life, don't take them. They're not fun. They don't give you any sort of high, and they cause side effects like muscle tension, shakiness, dry mouth, etcetera. For many they interfere with sexual desire and ability. If you don't need them, they are unlikely to improve your life in any way. If you do need them, as I do, they may very well save your life.

As far as this statement:

Im sorry to say that anti depressants are what leads people to be prescribed psychotic drugs sooner or later. Anti depressants there is no difference between them and psychotic drugs.

I don't even know what you mean. There is a difference in chemical structure, in biochemical mechanism, in application – they are in fact entirely separate categories of drugs.

They are sometimes used together if a person's mental condition warrants it, but they just are not the same, nor is there any reason that a person taking antidepressants to treat depression would ever be put on anti-psychotics or anti-schizophrenic drugs if they don't show symptoms that are treated by those drugs.

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by meadowfairy
Dont worry love i will bow down to you later, after i tell you my story dont assume you know me either.

I'm not sure why you would want to bow down to me for suffering from a disease, but if that's what you do who am I to stop you

I completely agree that people with mild and/or transitory depressive states do not need antidepressants. And I completely agree that the pharmaceutical companies are among the most evil, money-grubbing, manipulative corporations in the modern world.

I'm not sure how you figure that because when antidepressants didn't help your friend the shrinks moved on to antipsychotics, therefore antidepressants are antipsychotics?

I did once stop – not cold turkey, that's a bad idea – and two months later things were not good. I am one of the people who genuinely needs antidepressants, for whom meditation, a solid spiritual life and practice, and good diet and exercise did not prove sufficient.

For all those who can avoid taking antidepressants and still enjoy life, don't take them. They're not fun. They don't give you any sort of high, and they cause side effects like muscle tension, shakiness, dry mouth, etcetera. For many they interfere with sexual desire and ability. If you don't need them, they are unlikely to improve your life in any way. If you do need them, as I do, they may very well save your life.

As far as this statement:

Im sorry to say that anti depressants are what leads people to be prescribed psychotic drugs sooner or later. Anti depressants there is no difference between them and psychotic drugs.

I don't even know what you mean. There is a difference in chemical structure, in biochemical mechanism, in application – they are in fact entirely separate categories of drugs.

They are sometimes used together if a person's mental condition warrants it, but they just are not the same, nor is there any reason that a person taking antidepressants to treat depression would ever be put on anti-psychotics or anti-schizophrenic drugs if they don't show symptoms that are treated by those drugs.

Look i will leave it at this. You said your truth well and i'am noones mother and definately not like the msm dictates to people.

Enjoy reading ATS everybody and remember take anything you read on here and msm with a grain off salt. We could all have heed that lesson!

Originally posted by meadowfairy

Look i will leave it at this. You said your truth well and i'am noones mother and definately not like the msm dictates to people.

Enjoy reading ATS everybody and remember take anything you read on here and msm with a grain off salt. We could all have heed that lesson!

*offers handshake*

Agreed. I was feeling hypocritical after scolding people for being off-topic in another thread anyway

It's always better to hear both sides of any topic.

Originally posted by Yoda411
This post is possibly the best example I can show which supports the hypothesis that; ATS can contribute to mental health issues.

A boy named Jeff Weise contributed to the following threads under the user name "Weise":

"The White Owl" - Link

1.) It was an Owl, sitting in plain site in the brush near the road, I saw him/her clearly, and to boot it was White. A White Owl in the middle of the day sitting next to the road.

I didn't think too much about it till about two months later, I asked my grandmother about it.

They were sitting in the casino playing their favourite game when my grandmothers friend (same one who had witnessed the Owl), fell the to the ground. She had had a heart attack, long story short she didn't make it. Period.

I always heard seeing an Owl during daytime was an Omen of some sort, since Owls are a night bird, but doing some research on the net I didn't find out what exactly they are an omen for, but rather, that they have always (for the most part) been associated with evil forces.

I would just like to state why specifically the "White Owl" thread has significance in proving ATS contributed negatively towards his mental health issues.

This is a statement from the ABC article which this story directly relates to:

According to MacDonald, most delusions begin with general, unexplained feelings of discontent that are caused by a problem with the brain. It's only when someone tries to search for an explanation for their feelings that a delusion forms.

In this scenario, Jeff Weise was searching for an explanation for his unexplained feelings of discontent. Upon searching for the explanation of seeing the White Owl, he was informed that it meant his death. "Then over time, the delusions become crystallized -- meaning they take on particular narratives, story lines and people's motives begin to be fleshed out," said MacDonald. The delusion that this White Owl was representative of death eventually took on the narrative of his grandfather and grandmother - whom originally told him this was representative of death. The individual who posted first in this forum jokingly referred to suicide. He did indeed commit suicide after murdering his grandparents, an unarmed security guard, a teacher, and 5 students.

Was this proof of a delusional mindset supported by ATS? I think this is proof of disregard for the sincerity of an individual seeking real answers to explain his real mental illness. He was told, "Well you did try to commit suicide as I read it. Sounds like you're pretty much screwed ".

It reminds me way too much of the individual who killed himself streaming it over his live web cam. He was fueled by those who watched on in suspense, egging him on to do it. I believe this is a similar scenario. Not that anyone is to blame, but this individual came here seeking answers for his delusions. Instead, he was blatantly mocked for his past suicide attempt.

There is without a doubt a connection between deranged individuals such as Jeff Weise and ATS as the delusional come here to seek an explanation for their unexplainable mental illness.

Another thread in which he started where he attempted to seek explanation for his feelings is National Socialism and the Muslim-SS.

In this secondary example, he attempts to seek answers as to why the Nazi SS is recognized and spoken openly against vs. why the Muslim SS is not scrutinized in this way. In my opinion this was Weise seeking an answer to why he is in support for the Nazi SS, through the responses of those who are against it.

This obviously isn't an everyday occurrence here on ATS, but it does provide a credible example of a deranged individual seeking out guidance from conspiracy theory forums. In seeking explanations for his emotions, caused by his mental illness, he was mocked for his suicide attempt on our own ATS and further pushed into the delusional state by his grandmother's interpretation of the "White Owl". This delusional state lead him to eventually murder his grandmother, grandfather, 5 students, an unarmed officer, and ultimately himself.

Is ATS to blame? No. It merely provides the connection between the delusional and conspiracy theory websites. I doubt this is the only example of a deranged [mentally ill] individual seeking guidance for his unknown feelings, emotions, and paranoia from conspiracy theory websites. I also doubt this is the only example of the proposed deranged individual being further deranged by myths, legends, folklore, and conspiracy.

Originally posted by blowfishdl

edit to take out pointless drivel that has already been posted.

In this scenario, Jeff Weise was searching for an explanation for his unexplained feelings of discontent. Upon searching for the explanation of seeing the White Owl, he was informed that it meant his death. "Then over time, the delusions become crystallized -- meaning they take on particular narratives, story lines and people's motives begin to be fleshed out," said MacDonald.

Sigh. This proves what about ATS? Sounds to me like it proves that someone telling him something is what lead to his death. If they said it over the phone would that mean that phones contribute to mental illness?


[edit on 18-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

reply to post by blowfishdl


Thank you for your interpretation of his threads. While I agree with what you said I want to make a quick note.

The delusional are not our everyday posters. They would not be me, nor angel, nor anyone else participating in a logical discussion. They would be more likely amongst the individuals whom come to this website seeking answers as if everything here was credible, not contributing their opinion to a particular topic.

Just my 2 pennies.

My knee jerk reaction was to say,

the mental illness comes from not being able to tell the truth from the lies we are bombarded with 24/7.

Sounds like they're looking for excuses to have more of a BIG BROTHER presence on the net.

Nawwwwwww, they wouldn't do thaaat..........

Originally posted by toasted
the mental illness comes from not being able to tell the truth from the lies we are bombarded with 24/7.

Indeed, individuals with mental illness' cannot determine truth from the fiction we are bombarded with 24/7. This is why I support the hypothesis in which they could be further mislead towards an incorrect perception of reality.