ABC says conspiracy web sites are contributing to mental health issues

Originally posted by MemoryShock

2. Yes. ATS makes people paranoid I am sorry to say. 2012? 9/11? Government Spying? Monsters? Maybe not for you, and maybe not for me, but for some individuals it does. This is obvious and I am surprised anyone would debate that issue.

Not obvious and again you are making a blanket statement regarding hundreds of thousands of people who visit this site each month, most of whom just read. For some, it may be the novelty and entertainment value of the website, others may have genuine questions regarding some of these theories and yet others may just be interested in keeping up with current events that only ATS has shown we can do - which is provide an exhaustive history and surrounding information on a topic to supplement the original article. Take a look at one of the Ossentia threads from a few months ago...absolutely staggering in its' coverage on a level that far surpasses CNN.

Does a collaborative website necessarily translate into a mental health issue?

No!!

Just a few things here..

First of all I'm not making a blanket statement as you have assumed. I am saying out of hundreds of thousands of people, maybe 5% experience paranoia from this website. That's not that big of a stretch especially assuming paranoia is as rampant as you mentioned.

Secondly, Timothy McVeigh is just the best example of domestic terrorism fueled by government corruption because somebody asked for an example. Is there an example surrounding conspiracy websites? Absolutely not. Don't forget though the Internet has only been around publicly for 20 years or so.

Thirdly, and the most obviously important question of the thread, "Does a collaborative website necessarily translate into a mental health issue". Well no, it doesn't necessarily translate into a mental health issue. However, it can obviously run parallel with an individual already facing paranoia or a similar mental health problem.

You also mention that a large number of viewers on ATS are obviously readers only, and do not contribute. These people are unknown faces who do unknown things every day. There could in principle be a thousand cases where this website caused paranoia or a similar mental health issue. We would never know because they never interacted with anyone on the website, and then one step further out of paranoia would never tell anyone they visited the website.

Does that make sense or am I beginning to rant?

Originally posted by Yoda411
Does that make sense or am I beginning to rant?

It makes a bit of sense. But it still seems as if you are arguing the 'law of averages' angle. Certainly the internet has only been around for ~20 years. By that logic we can say that at some point a spork will be used in a homicide because it has been around a very long time and in some cases is the only utensil available in some facilities to some individuals.

Certainly, because cotton candy has been around for a very long time, someone is bound to choke on it.

Sure, perhaps an individual may have an 'episode' regarding ATS but let us not forget the story of Brokaw, I think it was, who was assualted by a mentally ill individual after the individual watched some of his broadcasts and arrived at the erroneous conclusion that Brokaw 'knew the frequency'.
This is a mainstream media example and certainly not result of a conspiracy website. As well, the McViegh case doesn't have much to do with conspiracy websites and was born of the individual's personal experiences.

These experiences suggest that more prevalent factors above and beyond a conspiracy website are the cause so attributing a mental health risk to a website like this is merely an attempt to point a finger...and many of us are too intelligent to let such a base and fallacious allegation to stick. Check out the comments on the ABC article - there are people who may not frequent this website who are lashing out at the article. I'm not seeing mental illness there.

On the flip side, this website and others like it may actually provide some therapuetic benefits...if mental illness requires attention, what better place to put yourself on a limb and make new friends and gain some relevant advice then an anonymous website?

Sometimes, having the capacity to express oneself undermines a potential 'incident'...we should not discard the therapuetic possibilities in the least...

Well thats funny , I have always said that watching ABC leads to mental issues . Not to mention what its parent company Disney does to the minds of little girls by dressing preteen girls up like little whores then displaying them on TV and magazines .

OH, in case you don't know, our petty human ego's are causing a lot of the damage. We are going against the will of GOD and are going to pay for the consequences. there are other enemies responsible for what is happening, but we are a significant part of the problem.

here is a question for you: who do you think is responsible for mental illness?

Originally posted by Yoda411The facts are plain and simple and laid out in plain view by blowfishdl which was the best post I have seen on this thread if you ask me.

1. Being paranoid is a mental illness.
2. ATS definitely makes people paranoid.
3. ATS contributes to mental illness'.

Originally posted by Yoda411
1. If it is not a mental illness, it can still be classified as a mental health issue. This is after-all how it was defined in the article anyway.

Yes, it can be considered a mental health issue. That is not what you said in the post I replied to: you said "is a mental issue". Since the three-page-long fight yesterday was largely about trying to drive the fact that it's not a mental illness home to people, I was somewhat frustrated to see that it was still be cited as "fact" today.

2. Yes. ATS makes people paranoid I am sorry to say. 2012? 9/11? Government Spying? Monsters? Maybe not for you, and maybe not for me, but for some individuals it does. This is obvious and I am surprised anyone would debate that issue.

"This is obvious" is almost as poor a support for an argument as "it's common sense." Since some of us debate that position, it might be worth questioning your confidence.

Maybe ATS does contribute more to paranoia than ABC news. Reading about 2012 and monsters is less paranoia-inducing in me than having to hear about every mugging or rape in New York City when I turn on the TV, or being confronted with sensationalist news pieces about rampant internet-fueled paranoid schizophrenia.

I have yet to see any actual argument that demonstrates that people who would otherwise not become paranoid do become paranoid due to ATS reading.

3. My first two premises were false only in your own narrow minded opinion. The article itself admits there is further research to be made, which is why we are debating our opinion.

Is that why you said "The facts are plain and simple and laid out in plain view by blowfishdl"?

Because if it is just your opinion that the ABC news article is on target, but you can admit that there is no real reason to believe that opinion over my opinion that the ABC article is skewed, there's no need to argue. Then we could get down to the important business: why does ABC run this story? Why now? Why this way?

Do you honestly not believe Timothy McVeigh bombing the Federal Murrah building over military corruption to be an example of where a conspiracy leads to domestic terrorism? I found this to be an intriguing comparison. While it is not surrounding websites the theory still remains. After all, it is not about where you find the information it is just that you do find the information. The internet is a valuable resource for such evidence not printed in the newspapers and magazines.

So you do understand!

"After all, it is not about where you find the information it is just that you do find the information."

It is entirely possible that paranoid people would find fuel for their paranoia elsewhere – to single out alternative and conspiracy-related websites to associate with paranoia, and in turn to associate paranoia as a "mental health issue" is a deliberate strategy.

Leaving aside the question of whether the mentally ill are ever made worse by internet conspiracy sites, this article is part of a recent trend in academia and main stream media to assess and control the impact of internet-based conspiracy theory and alternative news sites on the public understanding by directly linking them to mental illness.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
On the flip side, this website and others like it may actually provide some therapuetic benefits...if mental illness requires attention, what better place to put yourself on a limb and make new friends and gain some relevant advice then an anonymous website?

Sometimes, having the capacity to express oneself undermines a potential 'incident'...we should not discard the therapuetic possibilities in the least...

The article actually mentions the fact that contributing to conspiracy websites can indeed be a constructive way for subjects to take out their paranoia and/or frustration. Let's still not forget about those who merely read and do not contribute. The human mind likes to take concepts and adapt them where they see fit. The problem is for the people who cannot correctly adapt the concepts in reality. It mentions some guy on the street yelling about Reptilians ruling the world. That behavior could obviously have spurred from a website such as ATS, and I would assume is defined as paranoia.

I might also want to add that I'm not arguing this site will cause domestic terrorism. I do however believe this site causes and contributes to paranoia.

While I am definitely arguing with statistics I can also argue personal experiences. Whenever I have told anybody the story of Nibiru and the cataclysmic effects it would have on Earth what do you think their initial reaction is? Paranoia.

A person who is not in the correct state of mind may never leave that paranoia behind awaiting the date Dec. 12, 2012.

There are many, many, many people by the way who completely believe 100% in Nibiru. It would be wrong to assume that none of these people are paranoid. The belief in Nibiru is paranoid in itself as it is based on no factual evidence.

I guess my point through all of this is as follows:
An individual in a mentally ill state of mind would be further negatively affected by conspiracy theory websites.

... and your right. The news isn't much better. The difference is that the news never says, "They are out to get you". They also never say, "We are all going to die".

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by americandingbatDo you honestly not believe Timothy McVeigh bombing the Federal Murrah building over military corruption to be an example of where a conspiracy leads to domestic terrorism? I found this to be an intriguing comparison. While it is not surrounding websites the theory still remains. After all, it is not about where you find the information it is just that you do find the information. The internet is a valuable resource for such evidence not printed in the newspapers and magazines.

So you do understand!

"After all, it is not about where you find the information it is just that you do find the information."

It is entirely possible that paranoid people would find fuel for their paranoia elsewhere – to single out alternative and conspiracy-related websites to associate with paranoia, and in turn to associate paranoia as a "mental health issue" is a deliberate strategy.

Leaving aside the question of whether the mentally ill are ever made worse by internet conspiracy sites, this article is part of a recent trend in academia and main stream media to assess and control the impact of internet-based conspiracy theory and alternative news sites on the public understanding by directly linking them to mental illness.

Paranoid people find fuel for their fire in many places. As I said in my previous post, the news never says "We're all gonna die!" or "They're coming after us!" or "WebBot predicts global catastrophe!".

Additionally since everyone is welcomed to post anything they desire on ATS, this isn't just adding fuel to the paranoid fire- it is potentially adding rocket fuel to the fire.

There are most likely many enviromental contributions to this illness, emotion and attitude. This particular site has more than one section, but does seem to be less likely a source for more 'challenged' people who need some type of group therapy. From my point of view, this is greatly lacking from the internet service. Unless, I've missed this in the BTS area?

A survey and personality/disorder test could or should be available for new members as an evaluation in order to keep them focused on the sites true purpose and or present capability for them.

It would be great if the site did offer alternative levels for various members and their particular aptitude.(BTS?) I'm aware of my disability in reading materials and am now even more aware of my limits to any contribution here. New threads appear as if some twisted initiation for new members such as in the gray area. (paranoia or fact?)

I came across a site the other day on personality disorders. I wonder how many here would do on this test.......without lying.


www.4degreez.com...

If it's this sites true purpose to offer the best it can for it's members and readers, than unfortunately there needs to be an evaluation, at least offered, so the site can possibly direct them to a more suitable area or site.

The many various contributions to the whole worlds survival, mental health and illnesses, in many ways is what this site discusses.

Originally posted by Yoda411
There are many, many, many people by the way who completely believe 100% in Nibiru. It would be wrong to assume that none of these people are paranoid. The belief in Nibiru is paranoid in itself as it is based on no factual evidence.

Mormons believe that if they are good that the earth will be whisked away through the universe (sans all of the non-righteous and non Mormon's) and then they will be alotted the oppurtunity to become a God of their own worlds respectivily.

Many Mormons are outstanding members of societywith no indication of mental illness save for a belief (amongst others) that may consider ludicrous (I am one those humans who think they are crazy.

Taking an 'absurd' conspiracy theory such as Nibiru and attempting to substantiate paranoia and associate it with mental illness does nothing, at least in my book, to confirm that a belief in something not socially held is indicative of an increased liklihood for violent bahviour and delusional relationships. The human is much more resilient than many on this website are giving it credit for.

Originally posted by Yoda411
Yes. ATS makes people paranoid I am sorry to say. 2012? 9/11? Government Spying? Monsters? Maybe not for you, and maybe not for me, but for some individuals it does. This is obvious and I am surprised anyone would debate that issue.

You know, I found ATS because I was already looking up things about 2012, 9/11, government spying, and monsters. I had books on bigfoot and sea monsters as a kid in the '70s. I watched shows about alien abductions and ufo phenomena. I learned all kinds of stuff about UFOs, government conspiracies, nefarious agendas, yes even mayan calendars - all in the '70s and '80s. All without ATS. How does ATS do anything that life in general does not then? What are you exposed to here now that I was not exposed to well outside the confines of this place long before this place exsisted to be blamed for the troubles it reports?

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Mormons believe that if they are good that the earth will be whisked away through the universe (sans all of the non-righteous and non Mormon's) and then they will be alotted the oppurtunity to become a God of their own worlds respectivily.

Many Mormons are outstanding members of societywith no indication of mental illness save for a belief (amongst others) that may consider ludicrous (I am one those humans who think they are crazy.

Taking an 'absurd' conspiracy theory such as Nibiru and attempting to substantiate paranoia and associate it with mental illness does nothing, at least in my book, to confirm that a belief in something not socially held is indicative of an increased liklihood for violent bahviour and delusional relationships. The human is much more resilient than many on this website are giving it credit for.

Let's make an example shall we...

Steve believes an unfounded idea that Earth is ruled by aliens. Steve then searches the internet and finds information posted on ATS that supposedly supports the fact that reptilians rule the earth and all of man kind. Now that Steve's delusional mind set has been concreted by "factual evidence off of the internet [in his mind]", his paranoia has therefor been fueled by a conspiracy website.

Additionally...

Many Mormons are outstanding members of society. Then there are the ones who hold 20 wives hostage and rape/reproduce with their own children and don't let them leave the land as an abuse of the religion. In this case, you could say the Mormon religion contributed to mental health issues.

Originally posted by Yoda411
First of all I'm not making a blanket statement as you have assumed. I am saying out of hundreds of thousands of people, maybe 5% experience paranoia from this website.

I want to know where people are getting these numbers from to back up their theories. This far into the thread and no one has offered a source for numbers to back up any claim of any increased incidents of paranoia.

Originally posted by Yoda411
Then there are the ones who hold 20 wives hostage and rape/reproduce with their own children and don't let them leave the land as an abuse of the religion. In this case, you could say the Mormon religion contributed to mental health issues.

Now you are just creating scenarios to support your case. Mormon polygamy was made illegal in the 1950's and isn't a factor these days.

Perhaps we should amend the thread topic to 'conspiracy sites may exasperate mental conditions in extreme cases' rather than conspiracy theories will cause mental issues consistently.

Because the greater liklihood is that mental illness isn't a consequence of curiosity (the seeking of information on alternative websites demonstrates curiosity).

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


Here is a link demonstrating the amount of traffic ATS recieves:

ATS's Quantcast ranking

There is indeed no way to substantate the level of mental illness in new visitors or current ones.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

Here is a link demonstrating the amount of traffic ATS recieves:

ATS's Quantcast ranking

There is indeed no way to substantate the level of mental illness in new visitors or current ones.

Thanks, so I guess then that means we just get to make up any stats we want? 100% of all wu tang clan fans wear helmets to bed. Can people have this discussion without simply making things up to prove their point with? Proving fact with fiction is counterproductive.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Now you are just creating scenarios to support your case. Mormon polygamy was made illegal in the 1950's and isn't a factor these days.

52 Girls Are Taken From Polygamist...

219 children, women taken from sect's

These are the same story but CNN didn't mention them being Mormon.

Edit: I can't believe people forgot about this already.

[edit on 14-12-2008 by Yoda411]

reply to post by Yoda411


FLDS isn't recognized as a Mormon church...again, you're missing the piont of the analogy and that is that people who believe 'absurd' truths are not necessarily mentally ill...

Originally posted by Yoda411
Let's make an example shall we...

Steve believes an unfounded idea that Earth is ruled by aliens. Steve then searches the internet and finds information posted on ATS that supposedly supports the fact that reptilians rule the earth and all of man kind. Now that Steve's delusional mind set has been concreted by "factual evidence off of the internet [in his mind]", his paranoia has therefor been fueled by a conspiracy website.

Additionally...

Many Mormons are outstanding members of society. Then there are the ones who hold 20 wives hostage and rape/reproduce with their own children and don't let them leave the land as an abuse of the religion. In this case, you could say the Mormon religion contributed to mental health issues.

If Steve did not find the website, do you actually believe that his belief would go away? Many people as pointed out, hold beliefs before coming across conspiracy websites.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
reply to post by Yoda411

 

FLDS isn't recognized as a Mormon church...again, you're missing the piont of the analogy and that is that people who believe 'absurd' truths are not necessarily mentally ill...

I never said that the belief of absurd myths makes you mentally ill. I also have admitted long ago that there is no definitive proof of this being true, which is why we are having a discussion towards your opinion on whether or not it can contribute to a mental illness.

I did however say, several times, that they can surely contribute to a mental illness by solidifying a false concept. Paranoid ideals can further be extended very easily by taking threads as though they were news sources (out of context).

It is your opinion that reading conspiracy theories does not make you paranoid.

It is however my opinion that when conspiracy theories meet an already paranoid individual, they are fed further reasons to be paranoid. Whether the theory is true or not, the individual now has a real reason to be paranoid rather than ever being able to come to the realization he has been believing a delusion.

reply to post by ConservativeJack


how so?

how would reading anything at ATS be especially dangerous for a schizophrenic?

you can't blame information for the way a mind interprets information

it makes no difference what that information is - where it is - or how true - or reality based it may or may not be

holding information responsible for metal health issues is one of the most dangerous ideas I've ever heard

what's next?

they legally begin to start limiting information? controlling information?

because now it's a national health issue?

I almost couldn't believe that this was a real article - but, it is

next thing you know "certain people" will have to have a doctors note in order to get permission to read certain articles - or watch certain shows?

holy crap

right after that - it won't be just "certain people"