Ways in Which the Internet HASN'T Helped

This is a thread I've meant to start for a while. We're always hearing about how the Internet is the greatest development in terms of communication and the free distribution of information. And it is - this I won't dispute. The Internet is a blessing.

But allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment.

If, like some, you believe that elite hidden hands have guided the world down a path towards enslavement for at least the last hundred years, why would they have allowed the Internet to go public? Would they not have foreseen that it could become the most powerful tool in opposing deceit and oppression? Assuming, for a moment, that they had the power to foresee the Internet's potential and to prevent its appearance in the public domain, what reasons could there be for them to allow it?

For the sake of exploring all avenues and possibilities, I'd like to offer some ideas as to how the Internet might have actually hindered rather than helped us. I'd love to hear others' thoughts and input:


Considerations:

- It has allowed for disinformation and mistruths in a way that's not quite so simple in the form of paper publications and word-of-mouth. The sheer amount of information on the Internet makes disinformation a widespread inevitability. This is the most obvious point so I thought I'd make it first.

- It has provided a largely benign outlet for the frustrations of the masses. Notice how nowadays, when we're intensely frustrated by social or political issues, it's often satisfactory to come to a forum like ATS and moan incessantly. I'm sure many of us see this as an adequate form of venting. Note all the forums and comments pages on local and national newspaper articles. They're rammed full of very strong, opinionated comments. How many of those people will have supplemented their online venting with real-world tangeable action? Not many. How about before the Internet? Active protest and campaigning back then was a more viable, even vital form of dissent - not the (relatively) meaniningless forum banter we resort to today.

- The Internet has probably taught us to make opinions known that we'd otherwise be afraid to in real life. This results in a kind of schizophrenia where we deem it ok to be more honest anonymously even though we might be reserved in real life. Without the Internet and that opportunity to be anonymously honest, maybe we'd be more inclined to develop our real-world self to stand up and be counted for our sincere, unashamed views and beliefs.

Setting aside the obvious I think it's single greatest contribution so far has been bringing people from all over the globe into contact with eachother in forums such as this, it really does feel like a global community.
Which is the way it should be.



It failed horribly with child porn somehow being tucked away in secret places!

[edit on 12-12-2008 by SLAYER69]

Yes, the benefits of the Internet are well-documented. We can all agree it is ultimately a great tool. But just for the sake of exploring all avenues, I'm interested in considering the negative aspects of the 'net - if there are any. Could the Internet ultimately serve an oppressive (perhaps NOW) agenda, despite appearing to be wholly liberating?

Hmmm. I like this thread idea. S&F!

So, how has the web hindered us?

Well, here's my ideas.

- It has allowed hate groups to recruit more easily and spread their message to a wider audience.
- it has allowed exploitation of women, children and others to hit new heights by bringing a bigger audience
- it has allowed new ways to commit fraud to develop
- it stops me working - when I should be working I am sat here typing this.

There are others which will come to me at some point, but I just wanted to get these out there for now.

Peace,

MGGG

Judging by my emails it appears to have cured erectile dysfunction and allowed the easy instigation of a "whopping member". All hail the internet!

Originally posted by machinegun_go_go
- it stops me working - when I should be working I am sat here typing this.

Thanks MGGG.

I particularly like this point. It might seem like a light-hearted point, but actually, the Internet has became an addiction - too much of an escapist outlet. Would we pay more attention to our careers, our family, our community and our natural world if we didn't have the Internet to distract us? Addiction is a form of enslavement.

Yeah, we should all work more.
So they can bail out more of themselves.

Originally posted by Cythraul
- The Internet has probably taught us to make opinions known that we'd otherwise be afraid to in real life. This results in a kind of schizophrenia where we deem it ok to be more honest anonymously even though we might be reserved in real life. Without the Internet and that opportunity to be anonymously honest, maybe we'd be more inclined to develop our real-world self to stand up and be counted for our sincere, unashamed views and beliefs.

That is a very valid point, I believe. In fact, I feel that establishing an "online persona" is a form of schizophrenia. That's why I post in a personally-accessible way - I always want to stand by my words, as a person and as an 'expressive identity'.

It has been speculated here at ATS, and at other places, that "privacy" is merely an illusion. Does anyone here really thing that their posts aren't recorded, stored, and correlated to their actual real-world identity? At the very least, the possibility certainly exists that that is the case. So, what agenda is served by pretending differently?

The hypothesis that the primary function of the Internet is as a system of determinable control is a compelling one. Speak into the tubes, my friends, and all possible material bandwidth that you can communicate is automatically cast in an analysable form.

Child Predators = really bad

Me playing countless hours of spider solitaire = not so bad as much pathetic

Oops two lines

I actually think the interent is an amazing thing. Yes there is spam, exploitation and disinformation but you can also talk to anyone in the world in an instant. And I have honestly met some people I hold very dear.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by jackinthebox115]

An other side effect of the net is that we are becoming lazy, and distencing our selves from other face to face.
this is way worse then TV, with TV you have commercials to get up and do things or even just interact with someone in the same room. Computers on the other hand can suck you in for hours before you notice.

Originally posted by Cythraul
If, like some, you believe that elite hidden hands have guided the world down a path towards enslavement for at least the last hundred years, why would they have allowed the Internet to go public? Would they not have foreseen that it could become the most powerful tool in opposing deceit and oppression? Assuming, for a moment, that they had the power to foresee the Internet's potential and to prevent its appearance in the public domain, what reasons could there be for them to allow it?

Hey, I'm new to ATS and this is my first post. This is a very valid point that does make you think. I have often wondered at this myself. If one can really believe that the "hands that be" are controlling the world, do you really think they would let us have the internet? Doubtful. But, again no one can doubt the monumental influence it has left on us.

Of course there are plenty of mistruths out there, but in any misinfo, there are truths. You have to look at it like that.

The internet has effected us, in a way that i think they did not forsee in total, especially the news media, they especially have been impacted so much. Now there are millions of people projecting the news, not just chris matthews and bill oreilly.

The net is an amazing thing, shame about things like child porn, and bullying online, but i think there are far more positives than negatives, with regard to the net.

I just wish i had the net when i was young, and i could go on there and talk about how i felt. How would we have found out anything, if we just had to depend on the tv.

A lot of terrific posts in this thread, including a great OP.

Just recently I started to question my own internet usage. I'm spending a little too much time on the net. It's becoming like TV for me, interactive TV. More entertaining but still something of a time waster.

On the plus side, I do think it can serve as a vehicle for political change by helping people to thrash out issues and possibly build consensus in ways that they wouldn't be able to without the net.

I think the dark side of the Internet has not yet occured - obviously crimes have been committed because of and using the internet - but I think most of us are in denial of what is coming.

When one looks at the Google, Facebook, Internet Filtering ISP's, The (former) Pallidium Protocol, one clearly starts to see the face of what is to come.

What is coming is a control grid of unimaginable proportions - where internet anonymity will be a crime - and the internet itself will serve as the Orwellian Tele-screens in our own One World Dystopia.

This is not inevitable by any means, but with so many even here at ATS in denial about the plans and actions that are being taken right now to enslave us in the future, their seems little change of large scale resistance to the slowly boiling pot.

Sure - when the s**t hits the fan - many of us will jump into pockets of freedom here and there - in private networks and encrypted dark corners of the net - but by then the majority of Humanity will be held firm in the grasp of the few rich and politically powerful.

If we don't start taking serious actions now to prevent this upcoming Scientific Dictatorship, then we will lose everything taht we have built since the introduction of the Public Web.

I am cautiously optimistic that those who are still in doubt will wake up to this very clear and present danger - but with distractions like the economy, sports viewing, and Television taking up so much of the everyman's diminishing time and resources - I fear that we are already aproaching too little too late.

I hope my brothers and sisters here at ATS and all across our respective antions will stand up alongside me and rage against the coming darkness - let us not wait until it is us that "they" come for.

Viva la Revolution!

My experience is that ever since I switched from dialup to cable internet about 8 years ago that I started to waste a lot of time online :p Sure, I use the internet for useful stuff, but I play a lot more online games and such than I used to. Think about all the hours people play on World of Warcraft, and you'll see what I mean. Nothing's wrong with a little rest and relaxation, but I think the internet has taken it to a new level for some people.

Everything thats evil and dark about the internet is absolutely worth what it does and can do for good...

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Solomons]

Originally posted by TruthMagnet
I think the dark side of the Internet has not yet occured - obviously crimes have been committed because of and using the internet - but I think most of us are in denial of what is coming.

Wow, that's something I hadn't considered. With all this talk of 'Internet 2', it makes you wonder whether a preliminary 'free' Internet, followed by a restricted second Internet was always in the pipeline. Maybe the idea could have been to get the world addicted to one Internet so that when another one - devoid of the positive anti-tyrannical potential - appeared, the world would remain addicted, trapped within a cyber world with no real understanding anymore of how to assert their opinions and frustrations in the real world. This wasn't so much of an issue when the Internet still harboured great potential for liberation (as well as potential for mis-use) but becomes 'Orwellian' when that first 'free' Internet no longer exists.

Lots of these replies have really got me thinking. But again, I must stress this is just conjecture for the sake of considering all possibilities. I value the Internet (wouldn't be here otherwise ).

Who doesn't like the Internet?

I think most can agree, the pros outweigh the cons, but the pros compliment the cons.
If everyone used the Internet and did only the things they "needed" to do, it would be great, but we all end up doing all this extra crap, that isn't even necessary, but it's cool and entertaining. The internet can be a giant education hub (dis-info included), a reliable communication hub, a giant entertainment hub, a money making/losing hub we always get caught up in too much of one of them, and too much of anything is a problem. isn't it?

My view on this is based on laws that we have here in Finland, so it is a bit biased and cannot be wholly interpreted in other countries as is.

We could say that internet hasn't helped us to lessen the impact of hatred and groups that have their fundamental ideals based on that. However, we can say without a doubt that information about what is hatred has spread further and deeper into sociological structures in our society because internet exists and is used. That helps. Like in this case, there are usually two sides for any single coin.

I could go on and argue that any black & white thinking in issues like these is already biased because of such singleminded thought processes but that debate would never come to an end.

It is also true that internet basically makes us more lazy in some aspects, but it also enables more efficient methods of information retrieval to be discovered and implemented because of such "laziness". If you buy a hammer that is quite simply 100 grams too light, you might want to change into one which is 100 grams heavier to let your nails go deeper with a single blow on it. That's efficiency but not laziness. More often than not, people aren't lazy, they are just forced to use tools that are too complex for them to understand or tools that include parameters that simply just won't immediately come into minds of even the most brilliant people on planet.

On that, I couldn't care less what some nerd thinks about capabilities of mere mortals (I'm a nerd, but perhaps a tiny bit wiser on this than most), they cannot usually see a forest because of all the trees they can name and grow into something. To them, all I can say is that we are talking impact of internet by its helpful charasteristics in society as a whole rather than its impact on a single nerd who can use the most complex of tools.

We had an issue in our country when talking about cimcumventing copyprotectionsystems was made illegal, but that same law also made it difficult to discuss about how to actually make such a system which would also work. Needless to say, the law is still there but there is no single court which would enforce it in any way.

For media companies, internet helps develop better technologies to control their property, and for others, it helps to develop better technologies to make owning such a property meaningless.

Question in such cases is simply a vote, which one you want to be implemented? Personally, I want both.

[edit on 13/12/08 by rawsom]

It's helped to perpetuate frauds like Blossom Goodchild and Prophet Yahweh.... that hasn't helped.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Resinveins]