“I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It’s not going to be a pleasant sight.”

what's interesting to note is that the real owners of the big three could afford to bail them out but no one's asking them to. The real owners also happen to own most the other big industries and are consortium's of ultra rich elites.

www.forbes.com...

check out what forbes have to say about Cerberus, the uber-connected private equity firm that owns Chrysler,

but no, they don't have to look after their investments - the money will come from TARP and we won't be told how much has been given, they won't be forced to make cheep good economical cars nor will they be forced to do anything which is good for anyone apart from the investors - the most likely outcome is the unions will be smashed and the people who actually do the work will be made even poorer while the idiots who caused the whole problem in the first place will get richer.

Oh how I hate the blatant market manipulation.

All the media coverage to make people have some faith the Treasury will bail out the Auto Industry is only keeping the market propped up - and then just barely.

What? they don't want a Friday Crash? Afraid that by Monday everyone will be in capitulation?

Oh yeah and the BS retail sales numbers released that even have Economist seeing funky stuff.

It's just a load of crap. It's gonna go down, let it go, it's easier to rebuild from a strong foundation than to keep staking up pig bricks on an wish and prayer.

/rant off

reply to post by burdman30ott6

If the money ends up coming out of TARP, then the senators who voted "nay" basically get what they were pushing for from the beginning. Recall that originally the Congress was pushing Paulson to use the money they already gave him to "rescue" the auto makers. He acted like a petulant little bastard of a child, stamped his feet, put on a pout, and refused. If for no other reason than the fact that it will make his sphincter tighten uncomfortably and give him a bad case of acid reflux, them getting some of his little TARP funds wouldn't be that bad of a compromise all things considered.

There is a problem there. The money LEGALLY cannot come out of TARP. TARP money was specifically authorized by Congress to be made available to FINANCIAL institutions, PERIOD.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
There is a problem there. The money LEGALLY cannot come out of TARP. TARP money was specifically authorized by Congress to be made available to FINANCIAL institutions, PERIOD.

Actually, that's incorrect, there was "loophole" wording in TARP (or rather the EESA) that allows the Treasury to purchase both “troubled assets” and any other asset the purchase of which the Treasury determines is “necessary” in order to further economic stability.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


My friend, we long, long ago trampled all over the legality issues surrounding this. If history and the original intent of our founding fathers has any merit whatsoever in the interpretation of our laws, then the entire process of forced redistribution of citizens' monies to private enterprise is an abomination in the eyes of our law.

To break out one of my usual oddball redneck-ish euphamiztic comparisons, the bed has already been crapped in. The issue of whether we kick the turd out of the bed in one piece or break it up and brush some of it off the left side of the matress and the rest off the right is really immaterial. It will all end up in a big megaconglomerate bank's toilet one way or the other, whether it goes there directly from Paulson's stubby fingered little hands or through an intermediary like GM or Ford. Bottom line, we've been left with stained sheets on America's bed.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


WANT TO TALK ABOUT @#% LEGALITY???

How about this.

BILL FAILS SENATE.

PRESIDENT MAKES HIS OWN BILL AND PASSES IT HIMSELF (through tarp).

Treasury can now implement the very guidelines CONGRESS SAID NO TO.

Nationalizing an entire industry...

With Judicial immunity.

The United States of America is dead. It really was a damn piece of paper used to wipe the arses of those who took a giant proverbial # on America.

Legality.

reply to post by Rockpuck


LOL yup I just told my Uncle the same exact thing just 10 minutes ago. I said congress spoke and what does Kommidant Bush do? Does what he has done the past 8 years and that is go outside of congress. LOL!!!!! Disgusting!!!

reply to post by mybigunit


The disturbing truth is more often than not he hasn't needed to go outside of Congress for approval.

Iraq Invasion: Implicit consent of Congress
Patriot Act: Implicit consent of Congress
Funding the war: Consent
Troop Surge: Begrudgingly, but still, consent
FISA: Implicit consent
$700 Bil bailout: Implicit consent of Congress.

The fact is, had the senate had the dem majority strength they're looking at next year, this would have passed them and today we'd be talking about how dumb and traitorous they are. It is incredibly ironic that the past two years of Democratic House & Senate leadership have proven just how liberally minded GW Bush is. No wonder the Dem leadership didn't try to impeach him... he goes along with their plans more often than not.

so wall street didn't bomb today. nothing "dreadful" happened.

what do you all have to say about that?

Haven't you heard? It's going to tank, tomorrow!

Originally posted by ll__raine__ll
so wall street didn't bomb today. nothing "dreadful" happened.

what do you all have to say about that?

What do I have to say about that?

Fascism Prevails.

Originally posted by ll__raine__ll
so wall street didn't bomb today. nothing "dreadful" happened.

what do you all have to say about that?

Why didn't the markets fall today?

Can you answer that?

reply to post by anachryon


nope i can't but then unlike others here ... i don't pretend to know what's going on in the markets.

reply to post by ll__raine__ll


....Apparently? I suppose it's safe to say it's people like your self that let this happen ..

Live in ignorance, it's no different then putting your head in the sand.

Originally posted by ll__raine__ll
nope i can't but then unlike others here ... i don't pretend to know what's going on in the markets.

Perhaps you should read up a little before making snarky comments about a topic on which you admit you have little knowledge.

If you'd like an answer - TARP bailout rumors hit premarket and picked up early in trading hours. Classic stairstep up through lunch, which is actually a more "normal" pattern. After lunch the pattern fell apart. Those with a pit feed would know why.
Hint: GMAC, defaults, and short covering.

This is an extremely important weekend. We're looking at minimum 4 MAJOR corporations facing imminent default in some way. At least 2 of the 4 need to come up with some big bucks this weekend or Monday will be atrocious. Lots of shorts out there in anticipation of a big ka-boom next week which have to be covered, which translates to buys.
Also, volume was very low. Lots of traders waited on the sidelines today due to the above.

There's also two black swans in the background. A notable move on the Madoff front would be catastrophic if it's what many think it is, and Citadel confirmed some disturbing rumors aftermarket.

I am still amazed by this.

This is by far the only problem I have ever seen that is going to be solved by the problem!!

We will solve our lending default problems by borrowing.

OMG!!

Where is the logic.

I smell something.............. a stinking pile of massive BS!!



[edit on 12-12-2008 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by anachryon


Excellent summary of the markets mate. I too saw the news from Citidel, as well as reports that 700 hedge funds are expected to fail this year, 24% increase, with more then ever locking withdraws.When the markets opened they where only down around 200 sum points, of course considering that if the automakers stock fell to a penny it wouldn't move the markets much anyways...

reply to post by burdman30ott6

My friend, we long, long ago trampled all over the legality issues surrounding this. If history and the original intent of our founding fathers has any merit whatsoever in the interpretation of our laws, then the entire process of forced redistribution of citizens' monies to private enterprise is an abomination in the eyes of our law.

How foolish of me. You're right. I just keep looking at the Constitution and the writings of our Founding Fathers, and I keep thinking that they still mean something.

Thanks for slapping me in the head, and waking me up.
BTW, nice Christmas Avatar!

reply to post by ll__raine__ll

so wall street didn't bomb today. nothing "dreadful" happened. what do you all have to say about that?

There's always next week. There is plenty of time over the weekend for the government to screw things up some more. That's as certain as the sun rising and setting.

reply to post by Rockpuck

What do I have to say about that? Fascism Prevails.

I think I like your answer the best. Here's a star.