Teacher tells 7 year-olds Santa's Fake.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by saint4God
...the mythological flying reindeer pilot...

...Santa Claus hopping down chimneys included.

This is who I've been talking about. Do you believe Saint Nicholas does these things?

Do you believe Jesus ascended into Heaven? Literally?

If So, I don't see what's wrong with believing Saint Nicholas hops down chimneys.

The parents should respect their children by providing them with the truth regardless of my own personal feelings on this matter.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
The parents should respect their children by providing them with the truth regardless of my own personal feelings on this matter.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]

And this is my point about you not really respecting others. You believe that parents should teach their children what YOU believe is right.


I believe Santa to be as Truthful as Jesus, and so I teach my child about both.

If you really respected others, then you would want parents to teach their children what THEY believe is right and nothing more.


You keep throwing that word truth around like it gives you some sort of authority over others. The only way for us to be able to respect others is to realize that our convictions are just as suspect as the convictions of others.


I really am interested in your approach to the following scenario.

Parent 1. Teaches their children about the incarnation of God known as Krsna and all of his works/miracles

Parent 2. Teaches their children about the incarnation of God known as Meher Baba, and all of his works/miracles

Parent 3. Teaches their children about the incarnation of God known as Jesus, and all of his works/miracles

Parent 4. Teaches their children about the incarnation of God known as Santa Claus, and all of his works/miracles.

Which of these parents are telling the truth? Which of these parents do you respect for doing so?



[edit on 17-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by saint4God
The parents should respect their children by providing them with the truth regardless of my own personal feelings on this matter.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]

You want parents to respect the teacher for what he/she did, but yet, the teacher is ok for not respecting the parents wishes in the matter of Santa. Ok, then respect is a one sided thing. If that is what YOU think respect is, then I`m not sure if respect is a good thing then. It`s only good if it works both ways. As far as my respecting my kids, I always have and always will.



[edit on 17-12-2008 by FiatLux]

My daughter just stopped by and read the statement about respecting the teacher and kids. She had a good point to make about it. If the teacher knew that there were families who lived there, and Santa was a part of their holiday, and the teacher did not believe in it, what was the teacher doing working in that school? He/she should not be working there, but working in a school that had the same values as they did. This was a fire storm waiting to happen(as my daughter said). It showed a lack of respect the teacher had for the beliefs of the parents and of the children.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by FiatLux]

The facts are simple however, this isn't a credo, it isn't a part of someones religon, it isn't a political belief, it is a lie. There really is no santa. Period. This was fabricated in more recent years even. Schools are places where children receive education, they are taught to be factual. It is fully within a teachers jurisdiction to use santa, media and sociological instruction to illustrate or make points to students. 7 year olds should not be still believing stories about Santa. We debunked Santa with our neighborhood as preschoolers. Its wrong to lie to your children. But more importantly, don't expect schools to join you with this lie. Thats outrageous! The teacher did no wrong, and would not have been fired in Canada. Thats a fact. Theres something wrong with your political system and your education system.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by mystiq
The facts are simple however, this isn't a credo, it isn't a part of someones religon, it isn't a political belief, it is a lie.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by mystiq]

Excuse me, but it IS part of my CREDO, and it is part of my RELIGION. Need I remind you that Benjamin Hanby who wrote Up on the House Top was a minister at the Church I grew up in?


I'm not sure how it can be labeled a lie any more than someone walking on water or ascending into heaven.

Originally posted by mystiq
The facts are simple however, this isn't a credo, it isn't a part of someones religon, it isn't a political belief, it is a lie. There really is no santa. Period. This was fabricated in more recent years even. Schools are places where children receive education, they are taught to be factual. It is fully within a teachers jurisdiction to use santa, media and sociological instruction to illustrate or make points to students. 7 year olds should not be still believing stories about Santa. We debunked Santa with our neighborhood as preschoolers. Its wrong to lie to your children. But more importantly, don't expect schools to join you with this lie. Thats outrageous! The teacher did no wrong, and would not have been fired in Canada. Thats a fact. Theres something wrong with your political system and your education system.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by mystiq]

So you feel 7 is an age when children should not have an imagination? Well, the schools I`ve seen even have Santas come to them this time of year to pass out gifts to those who do not have much. So I don`t see them NOT sticking up for Santa anytime in the future.

Why do so many throw the word lie around like it`s some kind of weapon? Is it to make us feel bad? Is it used to hurt us?

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Walking on water is scriptually based and taught. If someone invented a Santa religion, then this is the first I've heard of it. Traditionally churches teach that santa is a worldly athiestic invention and from the devil. He's a made up gentleman promoted by corporations in the 20th century, and he's not St. Nicholas either, though some of that was stolen when they invented this kindly old man.

Teachers instruct with many tools at their disposal. They do social studies and current events, they may draw on any of the norms, or traditions of society, as in sociological model, to instruct or create learning lessons for classrooms. They are not obligated under law to protect the lie about Santa, and if they were that would be government being insane, displaying gross neglect and ignorance and I'd call it treason. Again, in Canada, this teacher would not have been fired.

edit to add: my father, my uncle and my aunt, and a few cousins, were teachers!
[edit on 17-12-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 17-12-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 17-12-2008 by mystiq]

reply to post by mystiq


"They are not obligated under law to protect the lie about Santa, and if they were that would be government being insane, displaying gross neglect and ignorance and I'd call it treason."

I call it displaying no respect for the parents and kids. Treason is a pretty nasty thing to be calling someone in a case such as this, that is going overboard. Lack of respect is why the teacher lost their job.

reply to post by Jkd Up

Its not a case of lying,its a case of keepng the child hood alive with magic!

reply to post by amazed


How beautiful & totally agree keep the magic alive as long as possible

reply to post by Jkd Up


not that i am christian.

but who takes a fudge? isnt chritsmas suppose to be a religous occation.
santa = more corperate tool to get money out your pockets and make the whole thing more of a month of who can spend the most money.

also i will admit i have said Santa isnt real infront of alot of kids
when i worked at woolies. (not to the kids but when any staff mentions santa)

Originally posted by bodrul
isnt chritsmas suppose to be a religous occation.

Yes, Christmas comes from the word "Christ" and is a service/celebration in his honor. The date had been moved to December 25th, but otherwise holds the tradition unless the purpose of your religion (druidic) includes celebration of Winter Solstice (December 21st). Saint Nicholas celebrated Christ by giving gifts to the needy.

Originally posted by bodrul
also i will admit i have said Santa isnt real infront of alot of kids
when i worked at woolies.

Apparently you have to work at a school to get fired for it.


[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by mystiq
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Walking on water is scriptually based and taught.

And that makes it more real how?


Christmas itself is not something based in Scripture. Now the festival of lights is, Jesus actually celebrated that.

So why do we celebrate Christmas if it's not scriptually based?



Now, Santaclaus is also Scriptually based and taught in my house. Each year we read about Santa from a Script called "The night before Christmas" and we teach that he is real. So that pretty much meets the requirement you stated.

If someone invented a Santa religion, then this is the first I've heard of it. Traditionally churches teach that santa is a worldly athiestic invention and from the devil.

Maybe at your church, but traditionally at my Church, Santa Claus is part of the Christmas Service. As a matter of fact, Santa Claus, (My Stepdad) walks in in a solemn manner, walks down the aisle and kneels at the manger.


keep in mind that Santa has been part of our Church since the 1800's when Benjamin Hanby, who was a minister there, wrote "Up on the House Top" A song about Santa Claus.

He's a made up gentleman promoted by corporations in the 20th century, and he's not St. Nicholas either, though some of that was stolen when they invented this kindly old man.

And this made up old man promoted by corporations in teh 20th century is somehow different than other made up men promoted by organizations?

Although, I think my Stepfather would be quite upset to hear that he was referred to as a "made up old man"

Teachers instruct with many tools at their disposal. They do social studies and current events, they may draw on any of the norms, or traditions of society, as in sociological model, to instruct or create learning lessons for classrooms. They are not obligated under law to protect the lie about Santa, and if they were that would be government being insane, displaying gross neglect and ignorance and I'd call it treason.

Wow.. so promoting Santa is tantamount to treason?

Geesh.

I mean I agree it's not a legal thing. It's an Ethical thing. You know, those things which take over where legality doesn't have jurisdiction?



[edit on 17-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 17-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 17-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Ok, everyone have some tea and calm down.
Whatever Santa's origins there is a lot of good in the story and it would be nice to preserve that. I find it disrespectful to push another's beliefs upon someone. However, when I was a child I just wouldn't have believed the teacher. To this day I believe in the goodness of the idea of Santa and enjoy telling my children about it. My version is a little different;
Santa (known differently in diff cultures) was a good man who delighted in making children happy and to teach them that giving is a great way to show one's love and appreciation of another. He is around today in spirit (my beliefs) and has many helpers, both in suits and as parents. With the younger ones I tell them that one of those suited men is the real Santa so you better watch out and behave! (said lightly of course) When we become adults and parents it is our duty to help Santa with the workload by assisting him with getting presents, wrapping them and making sure all is good. When you become an adult you will be able to see the real Santa and know who he is. If you are truly lucky, he might let you know sooner.
This is my tradition and how I grew up. As I got older things clicked in and not only did I understand the truth about Santa, I began to understand the wisdom of Santa. Now isn't that a bit better than saying Santa should be trashed as a lie? Teaching children takes many forms. Sometimes a little magic and fantasy can teach a child better than dull facts. Leave those to the adults. Be good, I'm making my list.

i would like to know how many of us still beleieve in God for example, no matter what kind of religion is out there for us but still believe in something a little bit magical or not?

I´ve got one kid and for at least, a bit of time from now, i won`t tell him a truth like illuminatis rule the world, mathematics aren`t exact, everything we`ve learned is wrong, there are multiple universes, etc.......

I`m still trying to take a chance on the last truths i`ve heard, so why reap his innocence of?
makes no sense now may be when he comes when his own thougths or queries i`ll try to give an explanation to that

for now believe in Santa son

Lemon Lift tea from Bigelow at present. Good tea too. It was doubly funny because when bodrul said 'fudge' I was eating a piece of chocolate peanut butter fudge someone had brought in at work.

Discovering the Truth about Santa Claus

"Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God...

Under the Roman Emperor Diocletian, who ruthlessly persecuted Christians, Bishop Nicholas suffered for his faith, was exiled and imprisoned. The prisons were so full of bishops, priests, and deacons, there was no room for the real criminals—murderers, thieves and robbers. After his release, Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. He died December 6, AD 343 in Myra and was buried in his cathedral church..."

www.stnicholascenter.org...

We should ban all sorts of history from school, huh?

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Jesus was also a very nice person who did lots of stuff for others.


Many people say that he rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, and still makes appearences from time to time.


Sounds a LOT like Santa Claus to me.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Sounds a LOT like Santa Claus to me.

Well, that's kinda the point. Saint Nicholas was to point back to Christ and reflect Jesus' caring, compassionate and giving nature. Yet, Saint Nicholas was merely a man, not God's One and only son. Knowing full well my words do not constitute proof for another person, it is my hope someday you'll come to know the difference between the two in a personal way that will remove any doubt.