Riots are spreading across Europe..

I find it ridiculous (especially considering how easy it is to look up the information from sources on the internet these days) that there is so much infantile band-standing about "Anarchy" and the fact that violent, disorderly, chaotic revolution are intrinsic to so-called "Anarchism". Before you work yourselves into a tizz throwing around "isms", why not inform yourselves a little. Anarchism (as a set of coherent social and economic theories, dating from the 1600s or perhaps even earlier) is primarily about responsibility, austerity (in the original sense of the word, without the puritanical connotations), and mutual productiveness. There are many examples of thriving, productive "communities" online which are in essence Anarchic, and the key defining feature I notice about almost all of them is that they don't waste all their time screaming "HEY MUM, LOOK AT ME, I'M ALL GROWN UP AND I'M SUCH A BIG ANARCHIST". Instead, they get on and do what it is they say they want to do. I won't bother making a list, because they're so easy to find online. Here's a starter though, keywords like "GNU", "opensource", "linux", "creativecommons" are useful...
When so many supposed "Anarchists" spend all their time trying to engage various authorities in what amount to "fist-fights", I'm not surprised people don't believe in their cause - because they are in fact proving that they don't have the responsibility or self-control to be constructive Anarchists. When the prevailing system stagnates from within, it will tumble and fall as has always happened (look at the patterns of collapse which happened to all unchallenged imperialist cultures in the past, or read anything by Fritjof Capra). If we build a strong and productive enough counter-culture, then when that time comes it will painlessly rise and replace it, as has always happened before. On the other hand, if we run around banging on tin-drums all the time, we play into all the leaders' worst self-fulfilling prophecies.
See www.rowanthorpe.com...

reply to post by pieman


In a true anarchist society you would find yourself very ostracised with behaviours like that!

And probably starve, or not get any of the other things you relied on to live that you could not produce/provide yourself.

LiquidSmoke has some good posts and is always a honest poster Pieman, who is willing as I have observed to change his belief structure if he is shown information or proof that his current construct is based on a false premise or mis-information.

Though of course like most of us on here he is strong willed in that belief system when born.

Therefore I will answer your question to him.

Who are you anyway

An evolving and valued member of ATS.

His suggestion to read that text is in-fact quite insightful I would advise all to.

I also find it funny that in a thread on anarchy, and the discussion thereof you are trying to moderate someone contribution of such a discussion, the height of misunderstanding of the Priori and also an true Paradox within itself.

Very dichotomos in nice teems or hypocritical in not so nice terms

I though also take on board your viewpoint and if it proves valuable to the continued discussion of this subject I am sure you will find the community supporting you, but the community on this thread will never Control you ....

unless.....

unless.....

You threaten one of them directly, actual danger is about to occur to the wider community or a member of it.

otherwise the only control will be by ignoration of any further requests by yourself, or further support, you will not be asked to leave the community, but the community will probably come to a global behaviour towards yourself that will involve you not being accepted into certain places, homes or being refused to trade certain things.

Good luck on your own, you wont be sent to an island, you can stay, but most will probably decide to ignore you.

Of course everyone has the free will to also actually try and force you to move, and that's up to them. This may lead to a kind of mass action if the rest want to join in too, but that community in itself would probably very quickly self destruct.

Therefore in this situation we would find that Evolution would create a few communities left who self regulate in co-operation, and have very well defined subconscious memes and behaviourist traits.

Of course though free will is still always allowed within this next generation of individuals co-operating together, for each others growth and survival, and happiness with no formal control structures.

Each individual is as important and as valued as the whole, though of course the whole regulates itself with natural human behaviour.

Anarchy in reality my friend.

It may actually be the Highest form of Human Culture if it was let to evolve of a generation or two, as surely only the most co-operative, Kind, just and trustworthy would remain, or be the Norm.

Because even though the Strong initially will try and control the weak, as shown they would not last long, as the group community whole is always stronger than the one. they also would have no way of creating power structures.

5 policemen with even guns cannot control a crowd of 50,000 if the crowd decides not to let them, and no punishable effects for their challenging that authority or power structure except the consequences in the Now, that some would be killed.

It relies on the inherent good nature and human-ness of brother to brother, and sister to sister of humanity.

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 19-12-2008 by MischeviousElf] elf spelling

[edit on 19-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
We're still too selfish, short-sighted and narrow-minded. We need to evolve a bit still.

Not sure I agree with this statement. It's not us who are selfish, short sighted and narrow minded, its the system.

A system that perpetuates those bad traits, because it benefits the system to have us act that way. Problem is it goes against our nature, and eventually society becomes disillusioned and frustrated, thus you get riots.

The system is only set up for square pegs and square holes. Problem us most of us are round, and are sick of being forced into square holes.

Social unrest is the inevitable result of a failing social system. Don't blame the rioters, they're the symptom (and maybe the vaccination) not the disease.

As far as calling them 'Anarchists'. Well I don't doubt some of them are, and probably the main instigators. But its not an Anarchist action, it's the action of frustrated people. Anarchists throughout history have been predominately peaceful, pacifist, but once in awhile violence becomes justifiable and the only logical action. It's not a method unique to Anarchists, and has always been an act of desperation, unlike the state that uses violence to enforce its control throughout society.

The term Anarchy is often used incorrectly to mean 'chaos' in the MSM.
A belief based on assumption by people who can't imagine life without someone 'in charge'. The 1936 Spanish revolution should be required reading in all schools...

The role of anarchism in the Spanish Revolution or Spanish Civil War of 1936 is too often absent from histories of this struggle against fascism. Alongside the war millions of workers collectivised the land and took over industry to pursue their vision of a new society. This page tells their story and the story of those who fought alongside them.

flag.blackened.net...

[edit on 12/20/2008 by ANOK]

Riots in europe...?...i thought they always had those ...you sure its not a rerun....if not than thats really cool...can i watch it on tv...?

[IMF warns of economic riots, police ready for civil unrest]

Paulson discussed worst-case scenario at bailout meeting – declare martial law

Posted: December 18, 2008
7:00 pm Eastern

By Chelsea Schilling
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

Pentagon resources and U.S. troops may be used if needed to quell protests and bank runs during an economic crisis, the U.S. Army War College's Strategic Institute reported.

"Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security," the War College study states.

Incidents of economic collapse, terrorism and disruption of legal order could require deployment of forces within the U.S., it said.

A "strategic shock" could require the nation to use "military force against hostile groups inside the United States."

International Monetary Fund Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn has warned that advanced nations could face civil unrest during distressful economic times

"[S]ocial unrest may happen in many countries – including advanced economies" if the economic crises are not properly dealt with, Strauss-Kahn said.

"He added that violent protests could break out in countries worldwide if the financial system was not restructured to benefit everyone rather than a small elite," London's Guardian reported.

In a recession where consumer spending is plummeting, foreclosures are rampant, workers are losing jobs, credit is tight and markets are strained, some are warning about a worst-case scenario.

Last month, trends forecaster Gerald Celente told Fox News that America will morph into the first "undeveloped" nation of the world by 2012. He said there will be a tax revolution marked by "food riots, squatter rebellion, tax revolts
and job marches." He also said by 2012, the holidays will be more about getting food rather than gifts.

According to the Phoenix Business Journal, U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., and U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif., said Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson considered the prospect of civil unrest while he pushed for September's Wall Street bailout – even suggesting martial law might be essential.

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano, Barack Obama's pick for secretary of Homeland Security, would not provide comment to the Business Journal on the possibility of civil unrest during economic crisis. But state and local police indicated that they have trained for such an event.

"The Phoenix Police Department is not expecting any civil unrest at this time, but we always train to prepare for any civil unrest issue. We have a Tactical Response Unit that trains continually and has deployed on many occasions for any potential civil unrest issue," Phoenix Police spokesman Andy Hill said.

"We have well established plans in place for such civil unrest," Scottsdale Police spokesman Mark Clark told the Business Journal.

Maricopa County Sheriff Deputy Chief Dave Trombi concurred: "We're prepared."

Nick Dranias, director of constitutional government at the libertarian Goldwater Institute, told the Phoenix Business Journal declaration of martial law would allow U.S. armed forces to control civilian authorities.

While he said the Posse Comitatus Act limits the military's role in domestic law enforcement, he referenced a 1994 U.S. Defense Department Directive (DODD 3025) that gives military commanders authority during domestic emergencies to "save lives, prevent suffering or mitigate great property damage," according to the report.

"I don't think it's likely," he said. "But it's not impossible."




Note 'we have well estab;ished plans for such unrest'-conspiracy theorists-we are vindicated.

Seriously though like I said before ,I think this is just the start but we should really be thinking and preparing now.Ideas anyone?
Moosehead(?)I think your in luck ,THE REVOLUTION WILL BE TELEVISED lol

personally, i have never heard of a riot in the depths of winter, it doesn't happen. if there is going to be a riot, it is in the summertime. can anyone think of another riot that happened in December?

The Russian Revolution started in March, while it was not December, it is still winter and mighty cold.

These student revolts around the world seem to be similar to what the world experienced in the late 60's and early 70's. Same thing, people wanted change.

Originally posted by haika

personally, i have never heard of a riot in the depths of winter, it doesn't happen. if there is going to be a riot, it is in the summertime. can anyone think of another riot that happened in December?

The Russian Revolution started in March, while it was not December, it is still winter and mighty cold.

These student revolts around the world seem to be similar to what the world experienced in the late 60's and early 70's. Same thing, people wanted change.

HEAR ,HEAR MY DEAR-good points!

Dark days ..

Listen to the Scream

I see the point about rioting in winter. But does that mean we should expect more people on the streets as spring comes in?

I don't think it matters much to be honest.

Incidentally, the MSM aren't reporting anything on this, but neither is realnews or alternet.

This is probably just the beginning, as the news isn't getting out there about what is actually going on, less people are inclined to be involved.

I still think that this will continue, and it will be exacerbated by governments refusing to tell people where their money is being spent and as unemployment rises.
Once you have a few hundred people in one place having an orderly protest, it won't take long for the authorities to make a mistake and anger the masses.

Personally, I think this will be a good thing as long as the masses keep some sense of right and wrong (unlikely I know). There needs to be some organizational structure to any protest to dissuade people from acting out in the wrong direction.
As governments continue to hand the public money out to corporate business with no requirement to state where it is going, protesting is the only thing the masses can do at this stage.

www.mailonsunday.co.uk...



OOH these Christmas elves look well scary-interesting picture-anyone think of an amusing caption?