Suicide and its consequences

reply to post by dunwichwitch


Maybe some people die by suicide as their soul needs to experience dying in this manner and the consequences of this kind of action. This could be worth considering if one has ever contemplated the idea that we choose for certain experiences to happen to us in this lifetime in order to learn some special lesson connected to that experience.

I've wondered this myself alot as suicide has been something of a theme on one side of my family (my fathers side). My grandmother had 3 sons - 2 of these killed themselves (one being my Dad). One of her sisters killed herself by throwing herself in front of a train after 3 previous suicide attempts failed while another of her sisters had a total nervous breakdown and tried to kill herself but failed (she's been in a home for the mentally ill ever since....). It's something of a family tradition so it seems which has made me wonder sometimes if there is not some "group soul" lesson working itself out........?

reply to post by dunwichwitch



Also I'd like to add that I've had thoughts of suicide on and off for years now... but I know better. It's like dropping out of school just because the going's getting a bit tough. You'll regret it later. Does it make you a bad person for either thinking about or commiting suicide? No. The loneliness involved is usually the thing that puts you over the edge to where you would actually do it. How can you be selfish if you truly believe that you are all alone? The inability to connect with people just makes people seem like moving shapes and meaningless patterns. I think people who actually go through with killing themselves have completely dissociated themselves from reality and the fact that there ARE other people around who will be hurt possibly more than they are hurting by what they choose to do. People who are going to do it may not even want to do it. They may not have as much control as you'd think. Maybe these things are all predetermined, and once you are on the path, there's no real guarantee that you CAN get off. Some do, some don't. Again, like I said before, we don't truthfully know the factors which led us all to the lives we are living now.

I attempted suicide once, had a shotgun loaded and pointed at my face, but it misfired. Luckily I didn't know how to properly assemble a shotgun.

That was the only sign I needed in order to never attempt suicide again. I'm here, and I'm meant to deal with my pain and suffering and overcome it.... and I'm still working on it. I am getting ready to change the scenery in which I live completely. The mental isolation and unnaturalness of urban and suburban areas I'm sure plays somewhat of a factor in many suicides. Would this happen as much in a more tribal and communal atmosphere where your friends and neighbors all had open doors and open minds?

Who knows.

I will repeat what I have said before:

People commit suicide when their problems exceed their coping mechanisms.

This is why one person can grow up in a landfill and be fine and someone else loses 5k dollars and commits suicide.


And if someone has a mental illness this only compounds the fact.

Someone close to me has bipolar disorder. One out of five people with bipolar disorder commit suicide. I have always said that there was a contagious disease with that mortality rate they would pay a whole heck of a lot more attention to it.

Part of it is that bipolar disorder is a mental illness ( no offense to any sufferers here btw) and it basically corrupts a person's ability to reason their way out. Or to see that life is not so bad. hard to see what is worth living for if you have a disease that permenantly puts a pair of dark cloud shaped goggles over your eyes. Not knowing this, it makes sense why to those remaining behind, it seems so senseless.

Suicide seems to hold this mysterious taboo over people. No one thinks anything of death by car crash or even fire. But mention suicide and people get silent and befuddled.
Do I think it is selfish? NO.
But I also don't hold any moral ties to it. As a reincarnationist, my beliefs are that someone commits suicide has to just take it a little easier next time around, kind of a demotion.
That is, if this wasn't planned as a journey for those that remain behind.

Our responsibilty comes in that people need to be taught coping mechanisms. That we ourselves need to be more compassionate to a person in trouble. That we need to start ignoring some social standards and offer help and advice to people or downright interfere and stop pretending it is none of our business.

Sometimes someone just actually seeing people care aobut them can save them.

There also needs to be more attention paid to mental health. so many people suffer while being undiagnosed. Even then, some diagnoses are hard to make.

If a family member or friend just can't seem to get their act together, there may be a good reason why.

If a person keeps losing friends, changing jobs,many failed relationships, are verbally or physically abusive, etc. and just can't stick to anything and has addictive habits, these are all red flags.

reply to post by nixie_nox



I liked how you mentioned that we need to throw a lot of social standards aside in order to help mentally ill people. I think that much of the misunderstanding towards people with mental illnesses is because most people are trained in this society to be efficient and to make sure everybody around them does the same... sort of like the sheep policing themselves... and the people who cannot cope with this system because of either their views on the world are in opposition to what they are forced into or just because this system has not given them enough room to breathe and figure the bad things out, they just snap further and further until they either just completely lose their mental faculties or they self destruct.

Compassion is almost impossible for most people in a system that is based on profit and efficiency and maintaining the status quo, leaving almost zero room for self expression. The ones who don't fit perfectly and happily into it just get left behind. We might as well be killing and brain damaging these people with our bare hands.

We're not computers or robots, ya know? Take the "society" out of society, and maybe things would be much different. What I mean by that is to just let people be the way they are and still love and support whatever they choose to do. Take this cold dead concrete system out of society, or maybe it's more accurate vice versa... and maybe people will be more capable of healing themselves.

i actually understand this completley, good job.

Suicide is such a controversial subject. I guess those who say it is the cowards way out have never suffered from depression, bi-polar or other debilitating mental illnesses.

I work in a secure unit and if I had a pound for every ligature I had cut off I would be very rich. The patients I look after have been usually sexually abused from childhood, have learning disabilities, have poor self esteem and to top it all are sectioned under the mental health act and locked up in an institution. On good days they are a joy to be with, yesterday they had a talent contest and to see a handful of patients singing their hearts out to a chrisonabike song, made me cry but in the afternoon I was cutting down a lady who has not seen her family for months and maybe did not want to live any more.

It has been noted that there is not much empathy in this thread. I started my job with a lake full of empathy but I have seen so many attempted suicides and one death that I have become (i feel) a hard nosed bitch with a hey ho attitude to suicidal intention. Maybe I am just burned out.

Suicide is also very much based on culture. In some cultures it is accepted, even admired. In other cultures (especially those that are heavily into denial about death) it is not accepted.

I think maybe one of the reasons so many only make 1 serious suicide attempt (barring those that are successful) is because once you have become really close to dying, the pressure is somewhat lifted. Instead of feeling like "this goes on forever, I have to stop this" it becomes a bit more of an acceptance thing of "well I know I will die one day, it will for sure happen".

I have thought about it in the past (never attempted, was always to responsible, but the desire was still strong). Having faced death a couple of times I sort of relaxed about the whole thing, because I realize death WILL come (yes everyone realizes it on some level, but facing it makes it more of a reality) and I can just go with the flow.

Originally posted by nixie_noxSuicide seems to hold this mysterious taboo over people. No one thinks anything of death by car crash or even fire. But mention suicide and people get silent and befuddled.

It is not just that, it HAS to be kept hidden in many respects because it can lead to serious legal consequences. To admit suicidal tendencies (regardess of the cause, even when facing terminal illness) can mean you lose your "legal status" as an independant adult and you can be treated like a criminal or a child, locked up against your will, losing your gun rights, etc... Being aware means realizing there are a lot of risks involved with sharing that sort of sentiment.

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Sonya610]

What if a person is trapped in a situation which is dangerous to say the least, leaving that person no choice but to confront that danger alone despite the risks, with a near certain outcome of death?

Is that suicide?

Would God condemn a person who could have avoided death but chose to fight and likely die anyway?

It would be hard to explain such a journey, but I can tell it is getting close now, I am spending more time noticing things I have always taken for granted, sunrise, sunset, stars, the bitter cold winter winds and the unique smells it brings among many things, talking with friends, family... every goodbye could be the last so I try to make the most of every conversation.

To live in hiding saved from sin, or to die free from guilt and hope to be forgiven?

That is the question.

Is the hell here among the living better than the hell in the afterlife?

reply to post by Shystargazer


I think its selfish to expect someone to live only for the sake of someone else even when that person is in severe pain. Whenever someone says that someone is selfish, it always seems to reflect on the other person a bit I've noticed. There really isn't free choice in suicide or mental illness, I don't see how any outcome is selfish. It's like saying "getting MS is the most selfish thing you can do".

But if you believe that God is omnipotent and guides everything, suicide is an action directed by him.

I believe the only way it would be a selfish act is if someone did it to spite another or maybe if the person had children that could not take care of themselves and had no one else to rely on. Otherwise, freewill is what we all have here on earth.

reply to post by Realtruth


Of course, free will is debatable. Just because we can't sense the strings attached to us doesn't mean they don't exist, similarly could be said of God and not being able to directly sense. Do a selfless act, since you have freewill it shouldn't be difficult and get back to me when you do. Point being, its impossible to do something against the ego or will to receive as it is sometimes called. God guides everything, even the "bad".

I had a dream when I was about 10 or so about being literally thrown in a cell and the door slamming shut. I had the feeling I had comitted suicide, and this is what happened as a result.
The feeling when this happened was complete isolation, and ever since, I have had the feeling that if I ever did kill myself, I would be "isolated" somehow, and it wasn't a nice feeling. Overall, the dream led me to believe that suicide would not solve any problems, but rather, it would simply exchange old problems for new ones.

Great thread OP, something resonated with me about what you said and this dream I had. I don't know if I explained it well, but everything you said reinforces that dream.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
reply to post by Realtruth

 

Of course, free will is debatable. Just because we can't sense the strings attached to us doesn't mean they don't exist, similarly could be said of God and not being able to directly sense. Do a selfless act, since you have freewill it shouldn't be difficult and get back to me when you do. Point being, its impossible to do something against the ego or will to receive as it is sometimes called. God guides everything, even the "bad".

lol! God is debatable too.

You can't prove he exists.

reply to post by cosmicpixie


I tend to agree with you.

All these "plans" that God has, how can suicide not be one of them? Who's to say that someone who is in complete distress, from years of torment, commits suicide, reaches God, only to be told they did the right thing.

How can it not be apart of God's plan?

reply to post by pluckynoonez


I don't believe in a personal God that humans answer to when they cross over, but I understand what you are saying.

I don't think there are any definate "rights" or "wrongs" in the universe, only personal choices that individuals make. In the case of suicide, many are mentally ill to the point where there is a powerlessness to avoid the suicide...in my Dad's case for example, he has voices talking to him for a week, telling him he had to die, deserved to die, was a bad person, that it was time for him to go on a journey, etc etc....he was saying this was the "voice of God" talking to him. The voices steered him to take his life, rather than it being a situation where he was fully in control over his own actions.

Also interesting was much of my Father's childhood exposure to Catholicism was manifesting itself in the psychosis....deep rooted fears about hell, heaven, punishment, sin, etc were in his head alot. He even left a bible quote on his suicide note and my Dad hadn't been to church in decades and was not one for religion. He seemed to believe God wanted to punish him and that he had to die as it was what he deserved and what God wanted as he was so "bad".

At the end of the day, the depths of hopelessness, despair and pain and/or mental imbalances that lead a person to suicide are simply terribly tragic . A soul this wounded and lost is a soul in need of love and compassion, not judgement. If any Supreme Being actually existed then such a being would embrace this soul with light, not cast it into further pain and punishment.

Originally posted by Shystargazer
Most people can be helped. Some people can't. For those that are left behind.... DON'T accept the guilt. YOU did nothing wrong.

Some people who try and kill themselves make it known to a few that they do in fact intend on trying it.

Those people who the person talked to and they said screw you is partly thier fault because they blew the person off as if it was no big deal.

I am going on exp in this, I tried to do it a few yrs ago and the person just said FU and could have given a rats ass less, its even worse when you think that person is supposed to be there for you..

Also someone stated about a support system, ya not everyone has a million friends they can rely on to help them through things. people who they think are their friends aren't and can give a crap less..

So therefor not everything is the same.

Ya i know its an old post but I saw this and it bothered me.. sorry for bringing it up..

reply to post by IX-777

I never said anyone deserve to suffer, they certainly dont.

There is however always a reason for people ending up in situations where they get desperate enough to do such a thing as suicide - and this is what really should be worked on, people need to understand that what they get is what they deserve, no matter how cruel that may sound, because they are not properly living in harmony and balance with the universal laws and themselves. If they had done so, they would not have ended up in such a situation in the first place.

hmmmmm....

if you actually believe in this nonsense - one might think you would be more careful about what you say out loud - or even just quietly to yourself

sorry - about being so negative and all - but this is nonsense

who knows what any of us deserve - it may well be that we don't deserve anything - good or bad

I have a friend that did kill himself

he was a really good guy in a great deal of pain

I think he deserved to get better before he reached that point - that point where he was so scared and in so much agony that he wanted to leave - but unfortunately still resourceful enough and competent enough to make that happen

when people say things that more or less add up to: this is just the way things are - people get what they ask for - I have to wonder - what the hell is up with that?

we all have ways of circumventing other people's pain - some more obvious than others

you should ask yourself why you find it so difficult to care

[edit on 3/7/2010 by Spiramirabilis]