Barack Obama Is Qualified To Be President... Isn't He? (by Jim Marrs)

When you request a birth certificate from the state, you will either get a photostatic COPY (photocopy) of the vault original, OR a “short form”, the information on which is extracted directly from the vault original. This is sometimes called an “abstract”.

Abstract: 1: a summary of points (as of a writing) usually presented in skeletal form ; also : something that summarizes or concentrates the essentials of a larger thing or several things.

Obama's is an abstract of the record on file at the Hawaii Department of Health.

Originally posted by sos37

* The governor (corrected from earlier) of Hawaii specifically gave instructions for the media not to be able to get ahold of the birth certificate; (possibly answered by BH, though proof that the email was actually sent from the governor's office denying the claim of sealing the records)

State law says you may not release the birth certificate to anybody who isn't family.

Originally posted by sos37
* Men from the Sheriff's office were posted to hospitals to presumably guard and brush off questions about the birth certificate (posted in Marrs' story above).

i would assume that they were probably getting hasseled by nut jobs asking for birth records, which i assume are probably confidential as well.

Originally posted by sos37
* Compare Obama's COLB (www.factcheck.org...) with the one BH posted on Page 19 and notice that something is missing - the name of the hospital is missing from Obama's COLB, yet it is clearly an item on the COLB on page 19 (though the name of the hospital is whited out, you can see the category).

printed in different locations, meaning the documents will differ in certain areas.

Originally posted by sos37
* Obama's sister says he was born at Kapi’ olani Medical Center for Women and Children. Obama says he was born at The Queen’s Medical Center in Honolulu. Which one is correct? The COLB which supposedly has all the same information from the vaulted Birth Certificate, but the COLB does not contain this information!

too be honost, not sure what hospital, but this link shows 2 seperate news papers that includes records of him being born. i don't even know what hospital I was born in to be honost. LINK

Originally posted by sos37
* This site says that no Hawaii hospital records ever show that Obama or Stanley Ann Dunham were ever admitted

see above

Originally posted by sos37
* ---Despite the number of suits filed on this issue, Obama has yet to make one public comment or respond in any of the suits, including the one in California where a judge has found that the plaintiffs have standing to sue --- (Answered by BH in a previous thread)

He's too busy preparing to be the president, i'm sure you can forgive him. I doubt if i wrote him a letter asking him to get me a glass of orange juice that he would comply.

Originally posted by sos37
* Berg claims to have a recording of Obama's grandmother saying that Obama Jr. was born in Kenya and that she was in the hospital when it happened;

can you link this? old people are senile and crazy most of the time... plus if i've read correctly the actual translation of this conversation has been disputed.

Originally posted by sos37
* Jerome Corsi's papers were mysteriously misplaced by Kenyan officials who then detained him without access to any communications devices for hours; he was then ushered out of the country.

I don't know who Jerome Corsi is, but people get detained in foreign countries all the time for asking questions about things.

Originally posted by sos37
* Ron Polarik, who claims to be a Forensics document expert, says he has analyzed JPG images of the COLB provided and found it to be a fraud (His integrity has not been proven or disproven).

he is not a forensics expert, he CLAIMS to have a degree in graphic design or something stupid like that.

we can flip this up right now, I am a forensics expert who went to Suffolk University and i looked at the document and it is valid. Who is more right as we stand right now, me or some guy that has his face blurred on youtube.






[edit on 12-12-2008 by WinoBot]

[edit on 12-12-2008 by WinoBot]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
When you request a birth certificate from the state, you will either get a photostatic COPY (photocopy) of the vault original, OR a “short form”, the information on which is extracted directly from the vault original. This is sometimes called an “abstract”.

Thanks BH.

Do all states offer both of these options? Are these two documents equally valid forms of ID?

Originally posted by sos37
* This site says that no Hawaii hospital records ever show that Obama or Stanley Ann Dunham were ever admitted

Yes I googled the same. This is a reprint of a blog that claims something slightly different. Look at the list of Hospitals where it claims "NEVER HERE!" etc. Notice that they do not claim the same for the first two...where they just say one Obama's sister said he was born there and the other is where Obama said he was born They don't say they called those two hospitals...just all the others where Obama already said he WASN'T born.

Read that list carefully

[edit on 12-12-2008 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by maybereal11
Do all states offer both of these options?

I couldn't say for sure. But, I would imagine that you can get a photocopy of the original if you make a special request for things like Native American benefits or other native (Hawaiian) benefits. For just the regular send away and get it, I suspect most states give a short form.

Are these two documents equally valid forms of ID?

Passport Requirements

Think Obama might have a passport?

Besides, at the bottom of his CoLB, it says: "This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding."

This Wikipedia page is an interesting amalgam of bias positions as opposed to an entirely objective synopsis, but that is what I would expect.

Interesting read all the same.

Wikipedia: Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories

Barack Obama was born at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu, Hawaii,
en.wikipedia.org...

Articles used to source the passage..
www.washingtonpost.com...
Before crossing the overpass above the H1 freeway, where traffic zoomed east to body-surfing beaches or west to the airport and Pearl Harbor, he passed Kapiolani Medical Center, walking below the hospital room where he was born on Aug. 4, 1961.

archives.starbulletin.com...

Originally posted by redhatty
I checked with Florida and if I ordered a new copy of my BC from them via phone, mail or web, I would get a short form, like Obama's.

But, if I went to any office of Vital Records in FL, I can get a certified copy of the long form.

If I needed my FL BC for a passport, I would have to go in person and get the long form, as FL's short form is still not accepted by the US Dept of State for passport ID.

infact, it states on the Passport info site

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

So I believe that by going, in person, to the office in the applicable state to request a BC you can still get a long form. While this may vary state to state, there are many reasons why a long form would be the only valid form for whatever documentation you need.

Is Hawaii's Short form accepted for passports? IDK, does anyone else here?

You are correct that you can request a long form of your birth certificate in Florida. You don't even have to go there in person, you can organise it by mail.

How to Order a Florida Birth Certificate from the State Office.

California is the state from which birth certificates can be obtained which are not acceptable as legal identification.

Informational Copy

If you cannot obtain an authorized copy under California law, you can obtain an informational copy. An informational copy contains the same information as an authorized copy, but will have a legend across the face with the statement "INFORMATIONAL, NOT A VALID DOCUMENT TO ESTABLISH IDENTITY." Authorized and informational copies are both “certified copies.”

In Hawaii only one type of Birth Certificate can be obtained after the initial certificate given by the hospital, (which is not a legal document and generally not accepted as identification,) and that is the Certification of Live Birth that Obama has made available on the web.

The COLB from Hawaii is legal identification for passports and driving licenses in every state in America.
State of Hawaii
State of Hawaii
Department of Health
How to Apply for Certified Copies of Vital Records

Originally posted by maybereal11
Redhatty...can you call them back and ask if the document you would recieve via mail would contain the registrars seal? What it's official title/label would be and if it would be valid in obtaining a pasport?

Also clarify if what they would provide you in person would contain the name of the hospital you were born at? Edit to add: Also ask what the label at the top of that document would read?

Maybereal, sorry I JUST saw this post - a new page came up and I had not gone back before :-(

I'll be happy to call them again on Monday and find out the info you are interested in

Originally posted by sos37

And the funny thing is - because he supports Obama you won't hear of any death threats against him. You won't hear of his life being ruined by a veangeful political machine. [edit on 12-12-2008 by sos37]

This is a convenient explanation and interesting tactic that I have seen you use a few times now. The idea that questioning the legitimacy of Obama's COB puts your life at risk.

No legitimate authorities will publicaly challenge it for fear of being killed or having their career's ruined.

Is it also possible that anonymity affords these folks the ability to make any claims about Obama they like as well as fabricate their own credentials secure from any means to validate them?

If that is the game we play...why couldn't I tell you I work at the Hawaii Department of Health and Human services and have Obama's vault copy BC on my desk right now...he was born in Hawaii. Case closed. I'd like to remain anonymous to protect myself from the militant right wing, but don't hesitate to spread the news to various blogs...also I work for the CIA part time and McCain is a Viet Cong Manchurian Candidate..I would prove it, but my life would be at risk.

If I started a thread claiming the same ATS would shut it down quickly unless I managed to show them I was who I said I was...I have seen it happen...yet right wing blogs champion anonymous "authorities" as the real deal without question as long as it serves the agenda.

Even when they are thoroughly disproven by legitimate PHDs etc.
Read the link I posted. Any comment on the actual content of the rebuttal?

Deny Ignorance?

[edit on 12-12-2008 by maybereal11]

[edit on 12-12-2008 by maybereal11]

reply to post by sos37

so you are quick to dismiss his conclusions solely based on that.

My point is he bases his conclusions on no credible evidence. You can't counter claims that produce no credible evidence. Please show me how this is an incorrect statement? Where is the credible evidence?

Just a few words on Jerome Corsi, of Obama rumor and World Net Daily fame.

The continued tolerance and prominence of Jerome Corsi - his books, columns and appearances - is just embarrassing. It is embarrassing for the Right, embarrassing for Republicans, embarrassing for conservatives and libertarians, embarrassing for all of us.

It's not just that he's frequently, remarkably wrong - something pretty well documented and acknowledged by both the Left and (while less enthusiastically) the Right. (and the Obama campaign (PDF), of course) Both the Obama campaign and Hugh Hewitt acknowledge that Jerome Corsi is "fringe".

Unfit for Publication (pdf) addresses any of the lies Corsi told in his book.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Excellent opening post... Good discussion, and read.

There is a conspiracy I believe, and it is shrouded in an agenda based in part from extreme ultra-conservative political members and ultra-elite business community leaders who will (at any cost) push to have this nation's first part African-American democratic president disqualified, and it will not end with the birth issues... This will drag on throughout his presidency along with serious attempts to sabotage everything he is or will be involved with in any official capacity as president of the United States of America. They will stop at nothing, short of assassination, and I wouldn't totally rule that out either depending on the level and number of successes President Obama has while in office.

If they want to, they can even prove to you that 8 is actually 10, and the moon really is made of cheese.

Ask yourselves which is more likely, that there is a very real conspiracy to bring down Barack Obama, or that there is real cause and reason to have Barack Obama disqualified from the office of President?

We may never know for sure either way, and in that case either way they win. Doubts in the minds of the people will be a great and powerful tool.



[edit on 12-12-2008 by Walkswithfish]

reply to post by WinoBot


The newspaper pics in those links provided don't say anything about the hospital. This is all it says:



And that address in the announcement is not a hospital either, it is a house address:

reply to post by Kailassa


Kailassa, from what I've learned, there is a short and a long form COLB. Here is one of the long form certificates from Hawaii, 1963:



Are you saying that Hawaii no longer issues long form COLBs?

[edit on 12-12-2008 by sos37]

Originally posted by sos37
Kailassa, from what I've learned, there is a short and a long form COLB. Here is one of the long form certificates from Hawaii, 1963:



Are you saying that Hawaii no longer issues long form COLBs?

Sos, there are two types of birth certificate issued by Hawaii, the longer one, called a Certificate of Live Birth, which contains all the information on record, and the extract of this, the Certification of live Birth, which contains certain information copied from the original certificate. The longer form is made available when you first have a baby. I have seen no indication that this certificate is ever made available again later.

On Hawaii's application page for a birth certificate only the Certification of Live Birth is available. There is no option shown to obtain any other form of Birth Certificate.

On the PDF application form downloaded from here there is only one fee and nowhere to specify an alternative type of certificate.

I've searched the internet carefully, and cannot find a single Certificate of Live Birth issued in Hawaii that was made available later in a person's life. The examples shown were all obtained at birth.

To obtain further confirmation of this I have emailed:

[email protected]

Dear Madam,
I noticed on Hawaii's internet page for applying for Birth Certificate that only the Certification of Live Birth appears to be available.

Is there any way for a person born in Hawaii to obtain a new copy of their original Certificate of Live Birth in order to get the additional information which is on this and not on the Certification of Live Birth?

If you are not able to answer this question I would greatly appreciate a referral to an agency which can tell me.

Sincerely
. . . .

I will let you know if I get an answer to this.

reply to post by danx


thank you! just what i was thinking.

and do you think he would have made the senate then ran for president without anyone he was running against check this out? trust me, his campain would have never got off the ground.

oh, and think about this too... Obama or a chance of Palin or the continuation of Bush. That should be enough to drop this issue.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Great thread.

I appreciate the fullness and balanced information all in one place.

Of course I wouldn't have expected any less from Jim Marrs!

I also wish this would just be straightened out with the proper documents, I don't understand why someone in such a position would even want the debate if it could be resolved by the long version of the birth certificate Just Show Us!!!

I do have one question about the law concerning the mother having to be a resident for five years after 16 years of age. It would seem that if she was an American citizen her entire life her child wouldn't be withheld citizenship just because she was not yet 21.

His mother was already an American citizen from birth, wasn't she?

The only reason that standard would have been used is because his biological father was NOT an American citizen. Both parents had to be U.S. citizens back then.

Originally posted by bmxkeeler
coming from Jim Marrs i'm surprised I read it. Didn't anyone see the copy of his birth certificate he had posted on his site?

The copy on his site is a photoshop job.

Hawaii also allows for foreign and out of state births to be registered within their state. So, someone born in say Kenya can get their birth registered in Hawaii. In order to prove he was born in Hawaii, which has not been proven, he would have to produce the vaulted copy, of which only he or a family member has access. Obama had all of the records sealed so that it could not be investigated and has spent thousands and thousands of dollars to keep this information from coming out. What does he have to hide?

Originally posted by Rintendo
reply to post by AboveTopSecret.com

 

I know that I would be more inclined to question this if the subject had come in when he was first deciding to run when there was a chance for another Democrat to be elected. This is sore loser syndrome at its finest, whether it be true (that he was born elsewhere) or not.

They waited until after the election to raise an objection.

This is totally untrue. The first lawsuits trying to question Obama's legitimacy were filed MONTHS ago. They were also filed by DEMOCRATS. The first lawsuit was filed by Berg, a devout Hilary Clinton supporter. As far as I have been able to ascertain, there were no lawsuits filed by McCain supporters, although there may have been one or two that I hadn't heard of yet. There were lawsuits being filed over this by numerous people all over the country. The courts determined that U.S. citizens have no right to question a candidate's eligibility for office.

Originally posted by davion
So how does one get a certificate of live birth without having a birth certificate to verify?

Does he pull it out of his ass like so many conspiracies on this website?

Hawaii allows for the registration of live birth for those born in another state or another country. It's apparently the only state in this country that does that, from what I have gathered thus far.

Those that flew the planes into the buildings on 9/11 managed to get passports, etc and all with originally phony documents to begin with, and they had less resources to do so than Obama does.