You think you have rights?

I keep seeing people say things on this board like:

“That is my right”
“They can’t do that because it violates my constitutional rights”
“It’s my right to own a gun”
“It’s my right to get an abortion”
Etc. etc.

Well I hate to break it to all of you, especially the ones who think you are born with these rights. You are born with whatever “rights” your current government will allow you to have. There is no such thing as “Basic Human Rights” because those rights are defined by the very same people who can remove them. 10 years ago people would have said something like this:

“It’s my right to have a trial if I am convicted of a crime”….now the government can throw people in jail without a trial and without telling them why….

“It’s my right to have privacy” … Now the government can search your house and your person without warrant and hold the keepers of information liable if they don’t spill the beans about things even as small as what book you checked out at the library.

The list is endless when you do some research into what we have lost in the last 30 years. Your so-called rights will conform to the whims of the PTB if it so fits their agenda.

A Small example of the process they use when taking our rights away:

In the early 1980's, state legislators introduced legislation mandating the use of child restraints in automobiles. The argument was that children didn't possess the judgement necessary to make important decisions and parents weren't wise enough to make these decisions for their offspring. Legislators declared that these mandates would not lead to similar laws for adults.

A few years later, the auto industry, in an attempt to derail air bag requirements launched a $100 million lobbying campaign to pass belt laws in all states. Appeasing citizen resistance, most legislatures promised "secondary enforcement" and small fines. The official claim was "we just want to 'encourage' people to use seat belts." (Secondary enforcement means you must commit another offense before an officer can issue a citation.)

In 2002, we enter the third phase of this duplicity (primary enforcement), ticketing motorists merely for failure to wear seat belts. Lest you think this is the end, rest assured there is more to follow. Look forward to extortionist fines, license violation points and insurance surcharges. Politicians may claim this will never happen, but then again, they also said there would never be any primary enforcement. (Primary enforcement means no other reason is needed to stop you.)”

Source - www.motorists.org...

The removal of our “rights” is done in phases. This is done so that the sheeple won’t complain, but actually welcome this change for our own safety. We are already seeing the beginning of the disarming of the citizens of the U.S. with the currently laws that are being discussed. First to go was automatic weapons, coming soon to a ban pile near you... “Assault” weapons. You can imagine that after the next school shooting involving a rifle or a shotgun that these types of weapons will follow suit, leaving us at the end result of a weaponless submissive society.

My next case in point is your so-called right to “Freedom of Speech”:

Sept. 6th 2007: A peaceful antiwar press conference and demonstration in Lafayette Square near the White House is broken up by a phalanx of mounted police officers, who charge the podium, forcibly disperse the participants, and arrest three people on unspecified charges. “The police suppressed the press conference,” says Brian Becker, national organizer for the Act Now to Stop War and End Racism (ANSWER) antiwar coalition organization. “In the middle of the speeches, they grabbed the podium…. Then, mounted police charged the media present to disperse them.” The crowd, of some twenty journalists and four or five protesters, “scatter in terror,” according to a journalist at the scene. Three people are arrested: Tina Richards, whose son served two tours of duty in Iraq; Adam Kokesh, a leader of Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW); and ANSWER organizer lawyer Ian Thompson.

The reason for the breakup?

ANSWER used an adhesive that doesn’t meet city regulations.

Source - www.historycommons.org...

I have stated very few examples of how our “rights” are being discarded but there is a treasure trove of information for anyone willing to look. The best source I can find is an ongoing public project which can be found here: www.historycommons.org...

It will be interesting to see what the next 10 years will bring…..


[edit on 8-12-2008 by ExistenceUnknown]

[edit on 8-12-2008 by ExistenceUnknown]

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Well I hate to break it to all of you, especially the ones who think you are born with these rights. You are born with whatever “rights” your current government will allow you to have. There is no such thing as “Basic Human Rights” because those rights are defined by the very same people who can remove them.

i think you have it backwards, you are born with these rights. if you choose to not exercise your rights because your government don't like you exercising them, that's your choice.

the point is, these are your rights, you may need to fight an unjust government so that you can exercise them but they are yours because you are human.

Who says that you are born with rights?

not a one-liner.

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

ANSWER used an adhesive that doesn’t meet city regulations.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by ExistenceUnknown]

"Sorry, you can't use superglue in this city...

so we're throwing your ass in prison!"

This is getting beyond ridiculous now, there seems to be more cases reported every single day where people are being arrested for absolutely no reason whatsoever, except the police don't really like whats going on.
Makes my blood boil.

I'd encourage every person in 'free countries' to write to their elected representatives to demand our freedoms back. And keep a copy of the letter, and another one to be sent to central government (Downing St, White House etc etc)
Then if nothing happens we would be well within our rights to march on the capitals and bring the 'system' down.

Of course, 'oh theres no point', 'I won't do it if he doesn't', 'Ohh it doesn't make any bloody difference'.

And so it gets worse.

If a certain law means that i cannot make my own personal private choice about something that does not effect or harm anyone else...10 times out of 10 i dont follow that law,which i think alot of other people do also...of course im from uk,dont know what its like in USA...

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
Who says that you are born with rights?

i do, i say you are born with rights.

PEOPLE... 2/3'rds of the American people are now living in "Constitution Free Zones"...its true and I have no choice but to believe it now.
A few weeks ago a friend of my nephew who just turned 16 took them to a party where the friend started a major fight that got my nephew and his girl friend drug into it. A girl at the party knew him and called my sis because the cops where not handling things well. She immediately called the station and demanded to know where her son was and that she wanted to see him right then. They refused her any information or rights to her son! They questioned him about what had happened etc no one present other than the over zealous cops involved...then when they were done they threw him in a car and took him to a detention facility only when they had got there did they call my sister and tell her where he was!!! The day of court came and they walked him into the court backwards and the judge forbade him from even looking at his mother in open court!!! people gasped etc... the judge only let the procecution speak and let them claim that the boy who started it was a victim of the scuffle and that he was going to cop a deal... When my nephews attorney tried to interject he was told to shut up and sit down. The judge then said my nephew would be charged with 3 fellonies, tried as an ADULT and sent to prison. Only thing is they never set a date and have yet to give us one.
I really dont think we will ever see him or his girlfriend again because according to the courts here in northen cali we dont have the right.
To be perfectly honest my hub and I are ready to leave the USA with our kids in tow and not look back! At least in the place where we are thinking of going you have basic human rights and real courts/cops.

I want to just make a few points on how particular rights where taken away from people. I don't have anything to add to that we have rights because we do. But this post here from me is to show what rights have been taken away in particular cases.

I will only go as far back as I can remember on particular things.

2004
RNC NYC.

This is where the police would block part of a protest route and make people go into an alley that would be blocked at the end. From there they would get a few hundred people and then block off the entry point. from there they would then arrest everyone for some type of violation.

Here we have a few rights that were taken away.
1st amendment:
Right to free speech, and peaceful assembly,
Also I believe the 4th and 5th amendments. considering these people didnt do anything to get into trouble to be processed and searched in the 1st place.

At the end of this I believe there was 1500 arrests in the few days up there. A judge ordered all the protesters be released or NYC would have to pay 1000 a day per head for anyone who was still in jail.

=========

2005
Hurricane Katrina

This is where police/blackwater was going around taking peoples weapons who were protecting themselves. This was well known over the news. a well known peice was of the old lady that was tackled by some fat cop for having a 22 in her hand.(might add she wasn't carrying it correctly to shoot anyone.) There were more cases like this after Katrina.



This here is a violation of your 2nd amendment plain and clear.

========

DNC Denver this yr.

There are cases where cops where herding people and arresting them. This is also the same rights taken away as the RNC in NYC.



Post on ATS about DNC.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

::EDIT::
Spelling and adding something.

[edit on 12/8/2008 by ThichHeaded]

[edit on 12/8/2008 by ThichHeaded]

My point about us not being born with rights is simple. We arent born with anything. We are born with what we would like to perceive as a basic human rights. But this is only because the majority believe we are entitled to them. When the majority believes differently then your "Basic Human Rights" will be non-existent.

Yes I know I have no rights under my Roman rulers I only have privileges granted to me by there royal majesty's.
I liken myself to someone who lives in one of those poor impoverished African country's where they have El Presidente, except I have some food.
Well for now anyway the food part doesn't look to promising in the not to distant future either.

Reminds me of the late George Carlin when he said that 'the Bill of Rights is really only a Bill of Temporary Privileges."

I hate to say it but I'm of the belief that we are not born with rights. If we were, who gave them to us? God? Which God? The argument falls apart once questions like these are raised. But, I do believe that people should have rights, and fight for them. We may not be born with them but that doesn't mean we can't do our best to try and get them, or in this case keep them.

it is a philosophical question, in essence, but i believe that we have rights as sentient beings, i believe we are born with these rights.

these rights boil down to dignity and happiness as well as the ability to preserve and pursue dignity and happiness.

no person has the authority to arbitrarily inhibit the dignity and happiness of any other because there is no one to issue this authority.

Originally posted by pieman

no person has the authority to arbitrarily inhibit the dignity and happiness of any other because there is no one to issue this authority.

The man holding the gun to my head or my family has the authority to grant me my rights or take them from me.

reply to post by ExistenceUnknown


no, that man has the ability to subvert your rights, to stop you from exercising them.

somebody with a gun to your head can not give you anything, he can only take something from you. you were not born with a gun to your head. the gun is a later addition. you were born with the ability, it is a later removal.

This is true to an extent. But we are not born with anything... Everything is a later addition. You are correct that this is a philosophical subject at which neither of us will ever come to the proper conclusion because it is up to the individual to decide the right answer. It is not the topic I wished to discuss when I started the post. I would like to discuss the many rights that we are losing and the obsurdity when someone makes the statment "its my right" when these rights, whether granted to them at birth or not, can be taken away.

reply to post by pieman


An interesting line of thought, as you say, philosophically. In more practical terms, then I believe it is a little misleading due to the fact that we are social animals and depend on each other. Since if I was following correctly the "authority" you speak of is your own consciousness and in my mind it is almost impossible to not be fundamentally affected by those around us. That the "authority", is actually a complex beast. Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth, it was my interpretation of what you were saying and I could be off the mark.

Personally, I've always believed that rights are something which cannot be taken away from us, nor subdued. Conversely, the rest would be privileges. The "right" of free speech, is a privilege in my mind -- for instance.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by Oscitate]

Certain rights are given by consent of the people such as the right to vote and elect others to represent our best interests however other rights we are most certainly born with and the fact that these rights can be suppressed does not mean we do not have them.

It simply means they are ignored. If your right handed and I force you to write with your left hand, it doesn't change the fact that your right handed...

It's my right to protect my life.
It's my right to speak.
Its my right to think and believe.
It's my right to my property.

No man has the power to take the rights of another, but people certainly have the ability to give them up be it to an individual or a government.

As far as this "authority" issue, just because a person or government has the "power" to take away a right doesn't mean they have the "authority" to do so.




[edit on 8-12-2008 by C0le]

we are born with the ability to be happy and dignified and, because we are all equal, no-one has the right to stop you from being happy and dignified, without reason.

this is the only conclusion if you believe all people to be equal. there is no logical conclusion other than this one.

happiness and dignity are fuzzy concepts, they cannot be easily quantified. for this reason we call the pursuit of and the ability to protect this pursuit of these things human rights.

it is absurd to say that these rights are granted to us, they are a function of our equality. we are not assigned equality, it is a function of our humanity. therefore these are our human rights.

Originally posted by Oscitate
In more practical terms, then I believe it is a little misleading due to the fact that we are social animals and depend on each other.

not at all, practically speaking, my rights cannot interfere with yours as i do not have the authority to do so. we are equal.

The "right" of free speech, is a privilege in my mind -- for instance.

this is the stickiest of the human rights. there is an arguement that says my words may inhibit your happiness.

i have come to the conclusion that because, ultimately, the harm is in your hearing what i have said, and because listening is an active action, it is my right to speak and your right not to listen or to speak against me.

Rights and Equality are the result of a moral society that wishes to uphold them. In a state of nature there is only survival where rights and morality do not exist. We created equality and rights for the betterment of society.