GM,FORD,and the other loser.

Hi, I been hearing some statements that The big three will get a bail out. I want to know if there is anyone that knows any latest news on the big three bail out.

If they get a bail out I seriously am going to send a letter to Washington asking for my bail out.

I plan to start a business and would love to get free money from Washington.

My arguement is GM and these companies are viewed as corperations and dosen't matter how big they are and how long they lasted and how many jobs they provide.

The fact is they are a corperation. If they get a bailout then so can any other coperation. There can't be a well they are the big 3 and been with us for a long time and have so many jobs that could be lost....

If congress gives me that bs.... I would point my finger well hmmm GM makes record profits in China.

Look they abandon america and started to outsource American jobs to other countries.

So those jobs dosen't matter.I have heard that GM is slowly moving their assets meaning their manufactoring operations to China because cheap labor. They will continue no matter if they get a bail out or not.

I really do feel like driving to washinton myself and going up to them asking for bailout.

I would love to start my own corporation and start it with the tax payers money.

I would like your views on this.


My sister owns a tayota suv and some guy on the road yesterday told her she is a trader and go out and buy a American car.

I personally own a grandam and notice the mirrors fall off. I had to replace them about 4 times so far and now my check engine soon light comes on. We won like 3 GM cars used to be 4 but my other sister sold it. All 4 cars had that check engine soon we just ignore it since we been told by people who fix gm cars on a daily bases saying it's some bug.

I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions about this subject about the Big Three on their performance and do they deserve to get a bail out. If they do get a bail out what would you do about it???

reply to post by computerwiz32


I heard from the BBC news this morning that 18bn has been approved but not the full 36bn, the funds will come from the energy commissions advanced research fund (green energy?). I tried looking for related articles but could not find any, I think this may have been an early leak and has been covered back up.

Either way it's a disgrace.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do they deserve a bailout? Absolutely not.
If our economy wasn't in terrible shape, I'd tell them exactly where they can put those tin cups.

But our economy is on the edge. If they go down, they take all the jobs that directly and indirectly related with them.

Most argue that they should just retrain the workers, and while I agree, it would take too long.

Also, only GM and Ford should get the bail out. Chrysler is a private company.
You better believe that there will be strings attached.

I'm more angry about the bail out of the Banks. Who are still doing NOTHING productive with the money given to them.

Hell, I say they issue a MASSIVE stimulus to every tax payer this year.
So people can pay down their debts and start spending locally. These smaller businesses will then have the money to hire people.
If the banks aren't lending, the money has to come from somewhere.

But hey, I guess that's not nearly convoluted enough for our leaders.

There is a car glut on the market now. If they give a bailout there will be a bigger car glut oin the market. It is more of Washington's stupid address to the situation.
Dinwiddy

reply to post by Thelast


Well, If you really look at GM, they have record profits in China.

I am pretty sure GM could just use those chinese profits and use it here to help operations. here.

I don't know much about the others. My view point is different. I see corporations as one. Why does GM and the other get to have some free money from Government???

Why are they entitled for it??? I mean I can start a business today with the taxpayers money and start hiring people for my business/cooperation and create jobs.

GM will still lose more and more jobs. They are transfering labor jobs outside the U.S

My dad wrote a letter to the CEO of GM. He told him and warned him about September since he heard on here a economy collapse will happen. The CEO didn't reply but the people who look at the mail they did and send like a auto reply saying thank you for contacting the ceo of GM we are currently busy and once we get time to read your letter we will reply. My dad said He knows that he didn't read the letter at all..

I am just saying GM is a company. I want to make a company but why do I have to have my own captial to fund my company and GM get to use tax payers money to fund there company????

I always say this.... you give me a dollar I'll take your wallet. That saying I was told by my dad when I was growing up.

It basily states you have to work for your money in order to understand the value of it. and if you don't work for it you will never know the value of it.

Basicly it says if someone wins 1 million bucks they will spend it all on items..... However if a person worked hard and earned 1 million on a monthly bases then that person won't spend it like the people who won it.

With that said.

I know GM and these corps will be back at the Washington asking for more. I mean if you get free money you don't really thing about that it will hurt you to spend it... you think hey it's free and if I spend it all It won't effect me.

So, I am upset on hearing that GM and them got some deal.

I seriously think the GOV has no business on taking tax payers money and giving it out to corperations or any profitable organizations.

The reason why they will profit from our money.


From here on when I look at The big three I will look at is as a disgrace to america... because I would know for sure if I had a company and I loss all my money I will lose my company my house and become a bum. Yet the CEO's that ran GM into the red were able to get free money form the gov. I persoanlly view it as GM just stole my money... I mean we pay taxes to help pay for government activitiesa and to better the community.

We didn't crate the tax system as a fund raiser for companies.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by computerwiz32]

There was an editor in chief of Car and Driver magazine on Fox News this afternoon (Sun 7dec). He basically told everyone $15,000,000,000 is not enough and the industry will be asking for more in just a few months.

I don't understand why the people of Washington don't understand this very simple concept. Let it die and go through bankruptcy.

An argument can be made that the airline industry was larger and more people involved, but you have to go back several years to include all the airlines that went belly up, starting with TWA. We still have airlines flying, just as cars will still be bought and sold.

Lets be honest here, why should any corporation get any government money? If the corporation is inefficient, uneconomical, uncompetitive or just darnright doesnt make a decent product then it deserves to go to the wall, no matter what sector the business is in.

Originally posted by computerwiz32
reply to post by Thelast

 

Well, If you really look at GM, they have record profits in China.

I am pretty sure GM could just use those chinese profits and use it here to help operations. here.

I don't know much about the others. My view point is different. I see corporations as one. Why does GM and the other get to have some free money from Government???

Why are they entitled for it??? I mean I can start a business today with the taxpayers money and start hiring people for my business/cooperation and create jobs.

GM will still lose more and more jobs. They are transfering labor jobs outside the U.S

My dad wrote a letter to the CEO of GM. He told him and warned him about September since he heard on here a economy collapse will happen. The CEO didn't reply but the people who look at the mail they did and send like a auto reply saying thank you for contacting the ceo of GM we are currently busy and once we get time to read your letter we will reply. My dad said He knows that he didn't read the letter at all..

I am just saying GM is a company. I want to make a company but why do I have to have my own captial to fund my company and GM get to use tax payers money to fund there company????

I always say this.... you give me a dollar I'll take your wallet. That saying I was told by my dad when I was growing up.

It basily states you have to work for your money in order to understand the value of it. and if you don't work for it you will never know the value of it.

Basicly it says if someone wins 1 million bucks they will spend it all on items..... However if a person worked hard and earned 1 million on a monthly bases then that person won't spend it like the people who one it.

What that said.

I know GM and these corps will be back at the Washington asking for more. I mean if you get free money you don't really thing about that it will hurt you to spend it... you think hey it's free and if I spend it all It won't effect me.

So, I am upset on hearing that GM and them got some deal.

I seriously think the GOV has no business on taking tax payers money and giving it out to corperations or any profitable organizations.

The reason why they will profit from our money.


From here on when I look at The big three I will look at is as a disgrace to america... because I would know for sure if I had a company and I loss all my money I will lose my company my house and become a bum. Yet the CEO's that ran GM into the red were able to get free money form the gov. I persoanlly view it as GM just stole my money... I mean we pay taxes to help pay for government activitiesa and to better the community.

We didn't crate the tax system as a fund raiser for companies.

You're assuming that's the end of the story.
I remember a time in American history...1929.
Herbert Hoover's first year as president.
He refused to pursue legislative relief when the economy was circling the drain. Because he believed, like you do, that people would become too reliant on the government.

I think we all know what happened next.
If you read the Great Depression section of Hoover's Wiki Entry, you'll find there really are A LOT of similarities between what's happening now, and what happened then.

Even down to the Government giving money to the banks to loan money to the smaller banks (like now), and them reluctant to do so (like now).
The similarities are staggering.

Sooooo, my point being that ideals are great until they push you off of an economic ledge.


I know you're angry, I'm not too happy about the whole thing either.

Also! Would you kindly link me to your GM profit report in China? I'd like to take a look at that.

Do they deserve a bailout? Heck no. Should we bail them out, probably. We have been hit too hard on too many fronts financially. If the big three go belly up a lot of people are going to be hurting. The last thing we need right now are more people that can't funnel cash into the economy. That and I want to buy the new Camaro when it comes out. I think it's sexy.

Of course they will get a bail out. And you won't get anything but the bill.

The Democrats owe the Unions big time. The Unions want the bail out, so they can continue collecting dues from horribly overpaid lazy workers.

The American auto companies are stupid. They have repeatedly had their clocks cleaned by both the Europeans and the Asians.

They build gas guzzlers, because they can't compete with fuel efficient cars. But every time gas goes up, the American companies can;'t sell a damn thing.

Their labor costs are more than twice those of the Asian companies that are building their cars in the US. The Unions say, "We have given back". Yeah, but the real effects of those "give backs" won't take effect for over 10 years.

In the meantime, because of those Union contracts, the American companies are required to maintain thousands of people on full salary and benefits, that are not working. Those "labor pools" are made up of laid off workers, and they are bankrupting those companies..

The Unions frabkly would rather see the companies fail, and go out of business , rather than accept a realistic wage and benefit package. The union bigwigs would lose their massive salaries and their massive benefits, if they had to negotiate a realistic contract.

Sorry, but no auto worker is worth more that $30 an hour, plus benefits. That's more than teachers make, and it is unfair and unrealistic.

I don't cry one tiny tear for any of those comapnies, or for their unions. They have done it to themselves, and frankly, the sooner they go out of business, the better for this country.

Other companies will fill that gaps, at very good (but realistic) wage scales.

Chrysler, Ford & General Motors should fail. they have been failures in the business of making and selling autos. But the dems will never let that happen, they have to maintain those unions, or their own campaign money will dry up.

So, they will stick the American people with the very high cost of propping up a dying industry for a few more years.

That's why the Democrats hate free trade. they know that our unions make the United Styates completely non-competetive with the rest of the world.

To the huy that blamed Hoover for the depression.

Bull Manure!

The Democrats and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, prolonged the depression for 8 years. The ONLY reason it ended was because of World War II.

Not one of the "programs" that Roosevelt set up did one damn thing to end the depression. Most made it worse.

The Smoot-Hawlety act was the single biggest impediment to our recovery. It blocked off almost all foreigh trade.

And that's exactly what a lot of Democrats want to do now. If they do, they will send this country into a real depression.

By the way, if you think things are bad now, I would refer you back to 1979-1980. Under Jimmy Carter, our economy was in much worse shape than it is now. Remember 21% inflation? Remember hopme loan rates of 15%? I do.

*sighs, half laughs at you half feels sorry*

read my words closely

the auto industry will receive a bail out

there is nothing you can do to change that

the Federal Reserve will save anyone who is too big to fail because we are going to print so much money that we will inflate our way out of any trouble...

in other words, anyone who is big time will get a bail out because we are all bailing each other out, we are printing so much money we get let off the hook and all is well again.

so you shouldn't worry about the auto industry getting a bail out, that's a good thing because we will need the jobs to keep people off the streets during the coming depression.

the only RISK is HYPER-INFLATION which would be a disaster and is quite likely, but its the ONLY choice we have. roll the dice....

Originally posted by computerwiz32


I plan to start a business and would love to get free money from Washington.

If they get a bail out I seriously am going to send a letter to Washington asking for my bail out.

Lolwut?

It's called a "bail out" for a reason, because GM/Ford/Chrysler are going bankrupt.

If you were to start a new company, you wouldn't exactly be going bankrupt would you? Hence it would be stupid for the government to give you a "bail out".


This thread fails.


BTW, I'm against the bailouts too.

While I have some sympathy for the peripheral workers in the auto industry, as far as i am concerned the companies themselves can go right down the drain. These are the same people who want no government interference when times are good and are up for handouts when times get tough.

They have been bitchiing and complaining about gas milage requirements and emission standards for years saying it was too much government interference.

I have seen no assurances that this money will be used in a manner that is fiscally responsible but if they get it they should be using the money to transform the industry to something more sustainable.

These corporations have proven they cannot compete with the Japanese and to market their product based on nationalistic tripe. It is now proven that this does not work.

I can't help but believe that at these bailouts are just another way of keeping the wealth contained within a select group of people. By granting bailouts, the government is certainly ensuring that the stockowners of the auto companies maintain their equity.

well here is GMs U.S finicial reports. : www.theautochannel.com...


now china I can't get the reports but got articles.:GM in China

General Motors is the best selling foreign auto maker in China.[16] The Buick brand is especially strong, led by the Buick Excelle subcompact. Cadillac initiated sales in China in 2004, starting with imports from the United States. GM pushed the marketing of the Chevrolet brand in China in 2005 as well, moving the former Buick Sail to that marque. The company manufactures most of its China-market vehicles locally, through its Shanghai GM joint venture. Shanghai GM, a joint venture between the Chinese company SAIC and General Motors, was created on March 25, 1997. The Shanghai GM plant was opened December 15, 1998 when the first Chinese-built Buick came off the assembly line. The SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile joint-venture is also successful selling trucks and vans under the Wuling marque (34% belongs to GM).

GM plans to create a research facility in Shanghai for $250m to develop hybrid cars and alternative energy vehicles. This move has been criticized because it pushes outsourcing to the very limit.[17]

source:en.wikipedia.org...

Here is a article talking GM may use china profits to help out if no bailout.

the article: www.autoblog.com...

some more :news.bbc.co.uk...

www.latimes.com...



These articles don't have any fincial reports. to backup the articles. It basicly says that GM operations ouside the U.S are profitable except in the U.S,canada,and Britian.

I can't find any report that would show the offical numbers in profit but the articles show % os where profits come from certain buildings and operations in china..

Gm even admits they are profitable and would us there profits from china to help keep GM floating... they want a bail out because they then could use china profits to reinvest inot the china market.

this is all I can give you. Hope this helps some what. I am really more upset with the concept.

I mean If I start a company and lose my shirt why should I go broke... if GM and other big companies go broke and then go asking for bailouts from the gov.

reply to post by SuperTruper


bankruptcy can happen at any point. You can have enough money to create the corperation and once created you can then go out and say hey I am going bankruppted.

I am saying that I know GM has been around for a long time and has made alot of jobs for us. The problem is this is not about saving jobs.

GM ceo in brazil said they plan to use 1 billion bucks from the bailout towards brazil operations.

Why do we give them our tax money to invest into international operations???

I am saying that Gm is a company. If the US government gives tax payers money to GM this makes the tax system nothing but a forced fund raiser ... The reason we pay taxes is to help the GOV pay there bills and help the community . It's kinda like everyone that lives in America has to invest into it type of thing. That is the purpose of the TAX ssytem.

Now GM and others come and say hey we are going broke we need money can we have tax payer money??

If they do get it then... our tax system is a fund raiser . I am upset at the concept... that a corperation can come and get thier hands on tax payers money. Yet if you make a business even if you have the business running for 10 years and gets big as GM I bet you will not get any bailout at all. They will say hey GM has money why bail you out when we can simply buy GM cars.

I am looking at is as cruppet. First off the Gov is not supposed to interfear with the markets.

Just look at AIG... .they got a bailout and after 6 months they decide to use tax payers money to go on a expensive vacation.

I mean it's corrupted.

I knew they will get the bail out. I am just upset at the whole picture.

If we bail out GM,FORD and the other one.... Then we should bail out Honda and toyota.

Or have one bail out and slip it with each company.

I am just saying I see it as our tax money not going to companies to save there butts but when we get no job and we go under for paying taxes all our life we just get a oh .... so sad sorry but GM needs it more then you do.

I don't know I do understand congress position.. they have both the public and the companies to make them happy. The more I see the more I wonder why the heck we have laws?????

I mean bush broke many laws.... we just bail out AIG and that's against the constitution. Yet we don't care.

All I see is the laws being enforced only on the middle and poor class.

Chinese Automakers May Buy GM and Chrysler
By Bertel Schmitt


Chinese carmakers SAIC and Dongfeng have plans to acquire GM and Chrysler, China’s 21st Century Business Herald reports today. [A National Enquirer the paper is not. It is one of China's leading business newspapers, with a daily readership over three million.] The paper cites a senior official of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology– the state regulator of China’s auto industry– who dropped the hint that “the auto manufacturing giants in China, such as Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, have the capability and intention to buy some assets of the two crisis-plagued American automakers.” These hints are very often followed with quick action in the Middle Kingdom. The hints were dropped just a few days after the same Chinese government gave its auto makers the go-ahead to invest abroad. And why would they do that?

A take-over of a large overseas auto maker would fit perfectly into China’s plans. As reported before, China has realized that its export chances are slim without unfettered access to foreign technology. The brand cachet of Chinese cars abroad is, shall we say, challenged. The Chinese could easily export Made-in-China VWs, Toyotas, Buicks. If their joint venture partner would let them. The solution: Buy the joint venture partner. Especially, when he’s in deep trouble.

At current market valuations (GM is worth less than Mattel) the Chinese government can afford to buy GM with petty cash. Even a hundred billion $ would barely dent China’s more than $2t in currency reserves. For nobody in the world would buying GM and (while they are at it) Chrysler make more sense than for the Chinese. Overlap? What overlap? They would gain instant access to the world’s markets with accepted brands, and proven technology.

21st Century Business Herald, obviously with input from higher-up, writes that Chinese industry must change and upgrade. China wants their factories to change from low-value-added manufacturing to technically innovative and financially-sound high-value-add industries. Says the paper: “It would be much easier now for strong Chinese automakers to go global by acquiring some assets of their U.S. counterparts in times of crisis.”

Deloitte & Touche sees a trend: “Chinese automakers can start with buying out the OEM projects and Chinese ventures of some global carmakers such as GM and Chrysler.”

The Chinese appear to have bigger plans than an accounting firm can imagine. 21st Century Business Herald acts and writes as if its already a done deal, and the beginning of more to come. “In the coming two years China is likely to see a few of its large Chinese automakers and other manufacturing enterprises set a precedent for achieving globalization by acquiring global companies, just like SAIC or Dongfeng’s possible acquisition of troubled GM or Chrysler.”

Just in case you missed it, the Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) is China’s largest auto manufacturer. In 1984, the company entered a joint venture with Volkswagen. A decade later, SAIC entered a joint venture with General Motors. In 2007, SAIC bought the Nanjing Automobile Corporation, which had acquired British MG Rover in 2005.

Dongfeng Motor Corporation is a public company, although 70 percent of their shares are reported to be in government hands. They also are one of China’s Big Three. The company has numerous joint venture partners, such as Nissan, Peugeot-Citroen, Honda, and Kia. Dongfeng (which means “East Wind”) was founded at the behest of Mao Zedong himself in 1968.