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[HOAX]Ufo shooting out of the ocean[HOAX]
page: 4share:
Psychology of a hoaxer..hmmm I've tried to work out what motivates a hoaxer, I get what motivates ones like Billy Meier and Stan Romanek. Money and
cheap fame.
But what about ones like the OP?
They go to the effort of finding a pic then altering it (badly), create an account and post the pic with some rubbish story.
It's a fair bit of effort really, to what ends?
A cheap laugh at people who will believe anything?
To gain points?
Just bored and wanted a bit of attention?
Who knows! but at least as you say Badge, it lets the sceptics flex their muscles a little bit.
But what about ones like the OP?
They go to the effort of finding a pic then altering it (badly), create an account and post the pic with some rubbish story.
It's a fair bit of effort really, to what ends?
A cheap laugh at people who will believe anything?
To gain points?
Just bored and wanted a bit of attention?
Who knows! but at least as you say Badge, it lets the sceptics flex their muscles a little bit.
reply to post by Ayumi
One day you will face your own mockery...
It's is disturbing that a community like this has to be destroyed partially by trolls - by trolls, I mean people who think they can just post some garbage photo and pretend it is real, then expect everybody to be nice to them, not offend them and weigh their "proof" as serious ish. It is getting to the point that we have to categorize ufo topics as "blockbusters" on ats and let people pay for posting. I'm betting those trolls will keep their wallets in pocket, or else, they are seriously ill. Don't tell me anybody wants to pay good earned money on "scamming ats users for ats-points".
And then there are the nay-sayers. "You don't have to look at the thread, you don't have to respond to the thread, and you don't have to even bother about it, just ignore it." NO! I can not, because I, like many others, want the truth, seek it everyday and night, and really don't give a ish about trolls trying to make cyber thrills in their tummy. You are to me what plague was to the world - devastating and out of control. Go get your mom or dad and make them smack you. Gently, so you don't post here 5 mins after, showing us a probe-abduction-situation that happened last night while you were cleaning your cell phone camera.
I'm done.
Joe
One day you will face your own mockery...
It's is disturbing that a community like this has to be destroyed partially by trolls - by trolls, I mean people who think they can just post some garbage photo and pretend it is real, then expect everybody to be nice to them, not offend them and weigh their "proof" as serious ish. It is getting to the point that we have to categorize ufo topics as "blockbusters" on ats and let people pay for posting. I'm betting those trolls will keep their wallets in pocket, or else, they are seriously ill. Don't tell me anybody wants to pay good earned money on "scamming ats users for ats-points".
And then there are the nay-sayers. "You don't have to look at the thread, you don't have to respond to the thread, and you don't have to even bother about it, just ignore it." NO! I can not, because I, like many others, want the truth, seek it everyday and night, and really don't give a ish about trolls trying to make cyber thrills in their tummy. You are to me what plague was to the world - devastating and out of control. Go get your mom or dad and make them smack you. Gently, so you don't post here 5 mins after, showing us a probe-abduction-situation that happened last night while you were cleaning your cell phone camera.
I'm done.
Joe
reply to post by Badge01
No need to apologise Badge01, (unless of course someone asked you to). Your post was bang on the mark!
Something for people to keep in mind is that this hoaxer was caught. This leads me to wonder how many here slip through the net? I would imagine it's a large amount! This hoaxers big mistake was providing 'evidence' in the form of a photograph - obviously assuming that no one would pick it. Oops!
How about the people who's stories come based on trust with no evidence whatsoever? I would imagine that many hoaxers here rest easy in unfalsifiable territories such as channeling, 2012 cataclysms & abduction/contactee scenarios etc.
This is why the burden of proof must always.... ALWAYS fall on the person making the claim. Trust should be earned, not given away haphazardly because a story resonates with your personal belief system.
I have no problem with theories and postulations so long as they are clearly noted as being such by the person. However, if someone takes that extra step and claims something extraordinary to be true, then they should be cautiously held accountable by all.
ATS has a good number of critical thinkers (thank god) but we need more. Everyones trust should come at a price, it should be worth something because when you give it away for free, you also lose some of your own credibility when/if the scam goes belly up.
We owe it to ourselves and the greater ATS membership to make it harder for these charlatans to dwell and thrive in our community.
IRM
Oh - by the way.. You're looking smashing this Christmas Badge01!
Woot Wooo!
No need to apologise Badge01, (unless of course someone asked you to). Your post was bang on the mark!
Something for people to keep in mind is that this hoaxer was caught. This leads me to wonder how many here slip through the net? I would imagine it's a large amount! This hoaxers big mistake was providing 'evidence' in the form of a photograph - obviously assuming that no one would pick it. Oops!
How about the people who's stories come based on trust with no evidence whatsoever? I would imagine that many hoaxers here rest easy in unfalsifiable territories such as channeling, 2012 cataclysms & abduction/contactee scenarios etc.
This is why the burden of proof must always.... ALWAYS fall on the person making the claim. Trust should be earned, not given away haphazardly because a story resonates with your personal belief system.
I have no problem with theories and postulations so long as they are clearly noted as being such by the person. However, if someone takes that extra step and claims something extraordinary to be true, then they should be cautiously held accountable by all.
ATS has a good number of critical thinkers (thank god) but we need more. Everyones trust should come at a price, it should be worth something because when you give it away for free, you also lose some of your own credibility when/if the scam goes belly up.
We owe it to ourselves and the greater ATS membership to make it harder for these charlatans to dwell and thrive in our community.
IRM
Oh - by the way.. You're looking smashing this Christmas Badge01!
Woot Wooo!
reply to post by JoeSignal
Exactly what he said
They do not understand that there a smarter people than them out there...
Exactly what he said
They do not understand that there a smarter people than them out there...
Originally posted by Chadwickus
Who knows! but at least as you say Badge, it lets the sceptics flex their muscles a little bit.
Your constantly flexing your muscles Chadwickus! Just look at that buff avatar of yours mate!
IRM
Good job, I must say you guys did a good job on this.
What is upsetting is there are several species of beings that are living within the deepest of our waters and since we have no equipment that can reach them they are safe and secure. With Earth being 70% water the ships enter and exit wherever they like.
When someone comes here and does this style of damage it slows the process of getting at the truth.
Shame on the ones that attempt this stuff.
A pat on the back from me for the ones that proved this a hoax.
What is upsetting is there are several species of beings that are living within the deepest of our waters and since we have no equipment that can reach them they are safe and secure. With Earth being 70% water the ships enter and exit wherever they like.
When someone comes here and does this style of damage it slows the process of getting at the truth.
Shame on the ones that attempt this stuff.
A pat on the back from me for the ones that proved this a hoax.
Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Originally posted by Chadwickus
Who knows! but at least as you say Badge, it lets the sceptics flex their muscles a little bit.
Your constantly flexing your muscles Chadwickus! Just look at that buff avatar of yours mate!
IRM
Viva La Raza!
Some people just need to know that IF you are going to come to ATS... We are NOT fools or Chicken Littles... Heck, just listening to the intellect
of some of the subject matters and replys, it migh just scare people as to how intelligent the average ATSer is.
I love ATS! There's no place like ATS! There's no place like ATS! There's not place like ATS! *clicking my ruby... Um... Biker boots*
I love ATS! There's no place like ATS! There's no place like ATS! There's not place like ATS! *clicking my ruby... Um... Biker boots*
(Mental Note To Self);
I must stop being so nice ... I must stop being so nice ... I must stop being so nice.
I must be getting soft as I get older (I think I need some mental viagra)
Woody
I must stop being so nice ... I must stop being so nice ... I must stop being so nice.
I must be getting soft as I get older (I think I need some mental viagra)
Woody
reply to post by InfaRedMan
Thanks mate, no, no one asked me to apologize. I've always felt that the most incisive and adept posters can do the job very calmly and even with subtlety. I use my words like scalpels, not like the jackhammer.
Let me pose this to the group. Who would make the BEST debunker than someone who had really experienced the paranormal.
They've (presumably) been there and KNOW the hallmarks of a real event. They should 'see' beyond the trappings of a hoax and call it as they see it.
Caitlinfae is one such Member. I feel that on some level she is really experiencing something beyond the doors of perception. She offered her comments on a thread recently about a spirit guide and it was nicely put. She can't help but be the feminine side, the Earth mother, because that's who she is. (hi Cait!).
There are others.
Let me just say that I believe I know who the real experiencers are, here, almost to the letter. I know those who are really good at posting a story, too, and some of them disappoint me because I had thought better of them.
So maybe we can put out a call to a 'League of Extraordinary Experiencers' who can join us, who can examine the claims. We already have a premier photo-imagery examiner in the form of JRitzmann. Working together we surely can accomplish more than separately. And, not as a forum gang, but as a loose collection of like-minded individuals who would assist in helping the truth come out.
Just a thought.
(thanks for the kind words IR-Man. )
[edit on 12/5/2008 by Badge01]
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Thanks mate, no, no one asked me to apologize. I've always felt that the most incisive and adept posters can do the job very calmly and even with subtlety. I use my words like scalpels, not like the jackhammer.
Let me pose this to the group. Who would make the BEST debunker than someone who had really experienced the paranormal.
They've (presumably) been there and KNOW the hallmarks of a real event. They should 'see' beyond the trappings of a hoax and call it as they see it.
Caitlinfae is one such Member. I feel that on some level she is really experiencing something beyond the doors of perception. She offered her comments on a thread recently about a spirit guide and it was nicely put. She can't help but be the feminine side, the Earth mother, because that's who she is. (hi Cait!).
There are others.
Let me just say that I believe I know who the real experiencers are, here, almost to the letter. I know those who are really good at posting a story, too, and some of them disappoint me because I had thought better of them.
So maybe we can put out a call to a 'League of Extraordinary Experiencers' who can join us, who can examine the claims. We already have a premier photo-imagery examiner in the form of JRitzmann. Working together we surely can accomplish more than separately. And, not as a forum gang, but as a loose collection of like-minded individuals who would assist in helping the truth come out.
Just a thought.
(thanks for the kind words IR-Man. )
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
[edit on 12/5/2008 by Badge01]
Originally posted by Badge01
So maybe we can put out a call to a 'League of Extraordinary Experiencers' who can join us, who can examine the claims. We already have a premier photo-imagery examiner in the form of JRitzmann. Working together we surely can accomplish more than separately. And, not as a forum gang, but as a loose collection of like-minded individuals who would assist in helping the truth come out.
League of Extraordinary Experiencers
What a great idea!
Any suggestions people? What fields of expertise would we need to create this formidable group?
IRM
Originally posted by Badge01
Let me pose this to the group. Who would make the BEST debunker than someone who had really experienced the paranormal.
They've (presumably) been there and KNOW the hallmarks of a real event. They should 'see' beyond the trappings of a hoax and call it as they see it....
So maybe we can put out a call to a 'League of Extraordinary Experiencers' who can join us, who can examine the claims. We already have a premier photo-imagery examiner in the form of JRitzmann. Working together we surely can accomplish more than separately. And, not as a forum gang, but as a loose collection of like-minded individuals who would assist in helping the truth come out.
Just a thought.
Ah, but it can be established whether someone is an expert in photography, astronomy, biology, physics and so on. Presenting someone as an expert in a more ... esoteric (he says politely) subject is begging the question.
Originally posted by LordThumbs
poor guy
star and flagged,
so YOU'RE the reason I saw this?
Pfft.
Stop flagging rubbish. geeze..
YOU owe me a few minutes of my life back. I mean it.
reply to post by damagedoor
Good point.
How do we establish an expert in certain fields? It's possible. In dire cases where it's not self-evident, one could vet one's certs to an Amigo and be cleared. But in the age of the 'Net where anyone can read some expert opinion and present themselves as one in a field not their own, it's problematic. A real expert can easily spot those making false claims, which is my point.
On any short list has to be Caitlinfae, Woody and JRitzmann. There are some others I've not been given liberty to mention.
As I said good point and such a group is one which we'd have to sculpt as results occur.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Good point.
How do we establish an expert in certain fields? It's possible. In dire cases where it's not self-evident, one could vet one's certs to an Amigo and be cleared. But in the age of the 'Net where anyone can read some expert opinion and present themselves as one in a field not their own, it's problematic. A real expert can easily spot those making false claims, which is my point.
On any short list has to be Caitlinfae, Woody and JRitzmann. There are some others I've not been given liberty to mention.
As I said good point and such a group is one which we'd have to sculpt as results occur.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
i]reply to post by Ayumi
you relied too much on the perception of your "buds" - budweiser and bud-lite because your pic is very light and no chrome.
you relied too much on the perception of your "buds" - budweiser and bud-lite because your pic is very light and no chrome.
Hi again Badge.
I see your point too, and can appreciate it would seem useful. But I don't know how you'd sculpt such a group? I'm very much against "appeals to authority".
For example, take photography. If you're an expert, your opinion carries weight - but only because you can justify what you post. If you debunk or authenticate a photo, you can back it up. (A small-scale example being the CS3 aspect of this thread). But the bottom line of being an expert is you can say: "I know I'm right: if you want to go study the subject yourself and argue I'm wrong, feel free". (For example, people can then go learn about photo-manipulation themselves to test whether the expert knows his or her onions).
With less down-to-earth topics, it's impossible. The bottom line ends at "I know I'm right". Which is tantamount to just accepting a person's word. In which case, we can all just pack up and go home. :-)
I mean, I don't believe in spirit guides. If someone posts a story of spirit guides, and the person you mentioned (Cait? Sorry, can't see the thread) backs it up ... it adds no weight for me at all. Because she can't prove she's more of an expert than I am.
(Nice avatar btw)
I see your point too, and can appreciate it would seem useful. But I don't know how you'd sculpt such a group? I'm very much against "appeals to authority".
For example, take photography. If you're an expert, your opinion carries weight - but only because you can justify what you post. If you debunk or authenticate a photo, you can back it up. (A small-scale example being the CS3 aspect of this thread). But the bottom line of being an expert is you can say: "I know I'm right: if you want to go study the subject yourself and argue I'm wrong, feel free". (For example, people can then go learn about photo-manipulation themselves to test whether the expert knows his or her onions).
With less down-to-earth topics, it's impossible. The bottom line ends at "I know I'm right". Which is tantamount to just accepting a person's word. In which case, we can all just pack up and go home. :-)
I mean, I don't believe in spirit guides. If someone posts a story of spirit guides, and the person you mentioned (Cait? Sorry, can't see the thread) backs it up ... it adds no weight for me at all. Because she can't prove she's more of an expert than I am.
(Nice avatar btw)
PHOTOSHOP!!
C'mon you can do better than that, we're not stupid...
C'mon you can do better than that, we're not stupid...
reply to post by damagedoor
Points well-taken, DD. But here we are discussing it!
It would be important to have more than one 'paranormal expert' and they'd have to be on-board with the idea of guiding non-experiencers toward some kind of commonality.
As far as other experts, yes there is a tendency to pontificate, but there could be some checks-and-balances.
Maybe it won't work. It's worth discussing, I think. It's a way to get disparate groups working together. We may not accomplish everything, but, hey, what if the presence of this loose collection is a deterrent to casual hoaxers? ATS already has a pretty good rep as a place where hoaxers fear to tread.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Points well-taken, DD. But here we are discussing it!
It would be important to have more than one 'paranormal expert' and they'd have to be on-board with the idea of guiding non-experiencers toward some kind of commonality.
As far as other experts, yes there is a tendency to pontificate, but there could be some checks-and-balances.
Maybe it won't work. It's worth discussing, I think. It's a way to get disparate groups working together. We may not accomplish everything, but, hey, what if the presence of this loose collection is a deterrent to casual hoaxers? ATS already has a pretty good rep as a place where hoaxers fear to tread.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
reply to post by Badge01
A BIG star for you Badge01
Taking no credit away to those who unmasked the false claim made by the OP (Great job guys), this was in reality, an 'easy' one to unmask. The OP is an amateur. He/She used a photo that could be found by Google and then left tell tale signs when they saved the image in PS. For the record (as an ATS member), I would advocate the banning of the OP because he/she's only intention in joining ATS was to attempt to break its T.C's and string along its members, but that's just my opinion.
As for forming a small friendly group of individuals to look into these initial claims I would say... GO FOR IT!. But you might want to limit yourselves in the beginning to certain type of claims since they can, and often do, cover a whole spectrum of areas and topics.
A hidden/restricted forum either inside ATS or outside would make a great place to exchange ideas and strategies. No point in using the OP's thread and alerting them of what your doing until your sure of your facts. I would personally say you will need at least 2 members who know how to search the internet using all the available internet search resources (each of which, have their own special ways of parsing search requests). Without giving too much away, here is one example of internet searching.
IMHO, if people are aware that their claims may be subject to a much closer look by fellow members it could sway them to at least take a second think about what they propose to do and its consequences. It could of course inspire people to try and beat this [proposed] closer scrutiny, but I suspect that's already being done as this thread, and others previously, is proof of this.
A BIG star for you Badge01
Taking no credit away to those who unmasked the false claim made by the OP (Great job guys), this was in reality, an 'easy' one to unmask. The OP is an amateur. He/She used a photo that could be found by Google and then left tell tale signs when they saved the image in PS. For the record (as an ATS member), I would advocate the banning of the OP because he/she's only intention in joining ATS was to attempt to break its T.C's and string along its members, but that's just my opinion.
As for forming a small friendly group of individuals to look into these initial claims I would say... GO FOR IT!. But you might want to limit yourselves in the beginning to certain type of claims since they can, and often do, cover a whole spectrum of areas and topics.
A hidden/restricted forum either inside ATS or outside would make a great place to exchange ideas and strategies. No point in using the OP's thread and alerting them of what your doing until your sure of your facts. I would personally say you will need at least 2 members who know how to search the internet using all the available internet search resources (each of which, have their own special ways of parsing search requests). Without giving too much away, here is one example of internet searching.
IMHO, if people are aware that their claims may be subject to a much closer look by fellow members it could sway them to at least take a second think about what they propose to do and its consequences. It could of course inspire people to try and beat this [proposed] closer scrutiny, but I suspect that's already being done as this thread, and others previously, is proof of this.
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