Odds are Aliens are not here

Originally posted by majestictwo
In the mean time pass us the evidence; a link will do that officially confirms it.

Read UFOs and the Natl Security State by Dolan.
Read Above Top Secret by Good.

Originally posted by damagedoor
However, space is big. Our own galaxy is 100,000 light years across. So - for the sake of argument - an intelligent alien species, travelling at the speed of light, would take 100,000 years simply to cross it. That's a hell of an investment of time and energy for a species.

Many arguments on this subject seem to assume an alien species would be heading for us like a dart. The key thing to remember, though, is that we have only been sending out radio waves for about 100 years or so. Beyond a sphere of about 100 light years, there's really nothing to distinguish our planet from a lifeless one. Nobody could 'hear' us.

Leaving aside the 'aliens made us' scenario, there are only two real ways visitation could be happening:

1) A tenacious alien craft just happened to be pootling through our info sphere at the right time. This is unlikely in itself - like searching for and finding a ball-bearing dropped at random in the ocean - and they would still need to get here afterwards. Even travelling at the speed of light, it would probably take back-up thousands of years to arrive.

2) More likely that exploratory ships: probes. Send them out in all directions, have them self-replicate, absorbing resources from wherever they land and flinging out new probes. It wouldn't take too long (in context) to colonise a galaxy, and it only takes one alien civilisation to do this. But we don't see evidence of that around us, and it seems likely we would. Regardless, there needs to be a probe in our info sphere, and any actual visitors will take thousands of years to arrive.

So the odds are incalculable, but they do seem unlikely to me, given what we know.

Glad you said for the sake of argument, since we do not know the max velocity of an alien spaceship. Of course if C is the speed limit, it does seem improbable they'd "stumble" upon Earth.

But your whole argument is founded upon this assumption. Only 100 years ago, it took months to cross an ocean. Now it's possible in a day. And with top military jets, a matter of hours. Given there are billions of stars and galaxies, and given there are intelligent species on other planets, some must have technology far beyond what humans can imagine.

I still think trying to estimate or guess if aliens are here by this type of reasoning is useless. There are too many unknown variables. If you want to answer that question, are they here, why not look at the data that is available ? What other logical explanation is there for these strange high performance "UFOs" that have been detected visually and with radar for many decades ?

I agree,i dont think aliens are visiting this planet,obviously possible they are but i doubt it...even making a large leap i'd say if they have visited this planet it would have been further back in earths history,humans have only been around for the blink of an eye compared to earths history.

and yes teleportation has already been achieved by scientists...just an atom though,but shows its possible..

[edit on 6-12-2008 by Solomons]

Originally posted by damagedoor
For what it's worth, teleportation is no good. Information still has to be transmitted, and it's not going to go faster than light. At the end of the process, the information needs to be assembled with material resources. Even without the philosophical problem of identity thrown in - would it still be you at the end of the process? - teleportation is rubbish.

There is already evidence of quantum events that happen "instantaneously" without regard to distance.

Originally posted by Graphix10
Come on, guys - speed, distance, light years...? They've figured all that stuff out, we haven't. In a million years we will... they just have a head start.

A million years? Your joking right? Never did a little snooping around the front lobby of LANL, LLNL, U of Wisconsin and MIT? You guys on both sides of the fence ought to do a little actual research on what we do have so far that they admit to...

Originally posted by damagedoor
Graphix - there's a difference between 'thinking outside the box' and just 'making stuff up'. If you want to talk about travel without talking about distance, speed and time, I'm at a loss to think what words you would use. What do you think travel is?

Well I am not at a loss for words to use...

Warp Drive

www.zamandayolculuk.com...
www.npl.washington.edu...

From Los Alamos National Labs

Putting the Warp into Warp Drive
lanl.arxiv.org...

Warp Drive: A New Approach
lanl.arxiv.org...

There are over 60 papers currently on file (they were moved the last time we posted a link direct to the archives at ATS because of the lookie loos )

Hyperspace

Hyperfast Interstellar Travel in General Relativity
Authors: S. V. Krasnikov
xxx.lanl.gov...

This one you won't get in... but look at the title of the url
hyperspace.nrl.navy.mil...

LANL has 32 papers available to the public on Hyperspace

Wormholes, I might just about accept as a possibility, as (purely theoretically) they permit the appearance of faster-than-light travel.

Very magnanimous of you I am sure the Air Force and Stephen Hawking will be impressed by you "just about accepting as a possibility"

Star Gate Wormholes

Teleportation Physics Study
DTIC Copy - AFRL-PR-ED-TR-2003-0034
APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION UNLIMITED
AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY
AIR FORCE MATERIEL COMMAND
EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE CA 93524-7048

SOURCE

Teleportation via Wormhole-Stargates
U.S. Air Force Teleportation Physics Study
Eric W. Davis, Ph.D., FBIS

SOURCE

Public Lecture - This lecture is the intellectual property of Professor S.W. Hawking. You may not reproduce, edit or distribute this document in anyway for monetary advantage.
Page 001
Page 002
Page 003

Looking Glass

The ability and device created at Los Alamos to look at light travelling backwards in time

Through the Looking Glass with Phase Conjugation
Fall 1982
Los Alamos National Laboratory
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anti Gravity

John Lear's father contracted with the Department of Defense to work with TT Brown on Anti Gravity research in 1952...
Project Winterhaven

SOURCE PDF

Buzz Aldrin is senior science partner in Gravwave Inc working on Anti Gravity and Gravity Waves with the CHINESE most likely with the missing Dr Ning Li

GravWave LLC Team PDF

From Los Alamos..

The warp drive and antigravity
lanl.arxiv.org...

Los Alamos has 44 papers on antigravity
Los Alamos has 533 papers on Anti Gravity

Gravity Shielding

Gravity Shielding is what you want to look for not anti gravity. Anti gravity is a force equal and opposite to gravity and would cancel each other out, most likely violently. Not good for controlling a spaceship. But if you can SHIELD against gravity... well them

Los Alamos has 29 papers

Gravitational Shielding Based on ZnS:Ag Phosphor
lanl.arxiv.org...

Gravitational Shielding Effects in Gauge Theory of Gravity
Ning Wu (Chinese )
lanl.arxiv.org...

Element 115

Remember Bob Lazar?

Here are 2 Los Alamos papers on the properties of Element 115 or Ununpentium...

Lifetimes of the $\alpha$ decay chains of superheavy element 115
lanl.arxiv.org...

Alpha-decay chains of 115
lanl.arxiv.org...

Also look up the element Bismuth (LANL 102 papers) If you don't understand the relevance do some homework

Fusion Rockets and Fusion Drives

Propulsion Research on the Variable Isp Tandem Mirror Plasma Rocket
Date of Report: Feb 7, 1994
Source: MIT
www.abovetopsecret.com...

PROJECT SOAR: Space Orbiting Advanced Fusion Power Reactor
Fusion Technology Institute
University of Wisconsin, Madison
January 1987....
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Levitated Dipole Fusion Confinement Concept
MIT Plasma Science & Fusion Center



An HE3 (Helium 3 found on the Moon) Fusion power unit that actually levitates and requires minimal shielding and produces no nuclear waste

SOURCES

For what it's worth, teleportation is no good. Information still has to be transmitted, and it's not going to go faster than light. At the end of the process, the information needs to be assembled with material resources. Even without the philosophical problem of identity thrown in - would it still be you at the end of the process? - teleportation is rubbish.

What is rubbish is your knowledge on the most recent research...

Caltech
Quantum Teleportation
Description of the 1998 Caltech experiment with the quantum teleportation using squeezed light
www.its.caltech.edu...

IBM
Quantum Teleportation
Article on the teleportation of particles using Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen entanglement.
www.research.ibm.com...

Quantum teleportation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nov 16, 2008 ... Quantum teleportation, or entanglement-assisted teleportation, is a technique used to transfer information on a quantum level,
en.wikipedia.org...


From Los Alamos.... 823 papers on Quantum Teleportation

The controlled teleportation of an arbitrary two-atom entangled state in driven cavity QED
Authors: Chuan-Jia Shan, Ji-Bing Liu, Tang-Kun Liu, Yan-Xia Huang, Hong Li
lanl.arxiv.org...

The CHINESE again...


As I have posted this years old work many times at ATS I seriously don't expect many of you arm chair 'researchers' to even click on the links and "deny your own ignorance" but I know many 'silent watchers' will appreciate the data collected in one spot.

This represents a mere fraction of what IS available to the public..

Now extrapolate that with the normal 10 to 20 year lag in the release of info

Edit to add...

Just did a LANL search for DARK MATTER

Your query resulted in too many hits, only 1000 hits are being displayed. These are not necessarily the 1000 most recent papers. We recommend that you try a more specific search

That's gonna keep me busy for a while





...---...







[edit on 6-12-2008 by zorgon]

geez nice links zorgon,dont think ill make it through all of them though honestly good post...i give you points and stars.

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon - very kind of you to supply so many links, although I could have done without the sarcasm.

Having looked at several of them, I do feel it's all far less impressive than it may appear to some, but there you go. People can read and make up their own mind, but I'd hate for anyone to see lots of mentions of 'warp drives' and take away the impression that they actually exist or are being built. Or that traversable wormholes have been proven to exist. And so on.

Quantum teleportation is real. It's about transferring the properties of particles. Even if it was possible on a non-quantum scale, I'd be reluctant to perform it myself, seeing as all it would really do is kill me instantly and produce an exact replica somewhere else. Great. That's the main reason why it would be rubbish, assuming it was ever discovered to be possible.

To be honest, none of this is really the issue. Never mind getting to us. My original point remains: realistically, how do they find us in the first place?

I haven't heard anything so far that isn't basically "Well ... they just do".

reply to post by zorgon


Nice post Zorcon. I am aware of most of these if only in a cursory way, I will over time try to visit them. I did make a bee line to Stephen Hawking's papers - enjoyed those. I understand where your coming from I guess with all these technologies eventually we will crack something that helps us in our space research and travels. I really hope it happens, I'm as excited about it as anyone.

This tread is about odds or if you prefer probabilities and so the projects you presented go toward increasing the probability that aliens have space travel even more so if they eventually turn into reality. If eventually we are able to send a person one particle at a time to the moon at the speed of light or faster then the probability again will be substantially improved.

If something like Stargate travel is possible and I'm not saying its impossible or indeed has not happened - per the "undo" thread. I'm presuming you need a device at the receiving end a real chicken and egg problem. I wonder then if in the past any visitation to earth was simply a projection, the people back then would not know the difference.

As an side issue; I think its all to easy to have a theory become real in peoples minds. Minds run wild with sightings from everyone who wants their name in the paper just as is happening in the UK currently, and can I say UK jurnos are happy to print it because "a source said". The reason I say this is just because there have been an increase in so called sightings it in no way improves the probability of aliens being here now. In-fact I would suggest opposite because why hasn't one of these thousands of sightings been confirmed as alien visitors. More over the longer this goes on the less likely it will be.

Originally posted by damagedoor
reply to post by Graphix10

 

Graphix - there's a difference between 'thinking outside the box' and just 'making stuff up'. If you want to talk about travel without talking about distance, speed and time, I'm at a loss to think what words you would use. What do you think travel is?

For what it's worth, teleportation is no good. Information still has to be transmitted, and it's not going to go faster than light. At the end of the process, the information needs to be assembled with material resources. Even without the philosophical problem of identity thrown in - would it still be you at the end of the process? - teleportation is rubbish.

Wormholes, I might just about accept as a possibility, as (purely theoretically) they permit the appearance of faster-than-light travel. However, you still have the problem of 'how did they find us?' to answer.

Seriously. Imagine a ball-bearing in the ocean. Is the ability to teleport going to help you find it?

[edit on 6-12-2008 by damagedoor]

Wow man, according to you we have no hope of advancing - in terms of travel. You've pretty much dismissed them all! You even managed to throw philosophy into the mix. Again, you're still stuck in the box.

And I'm not sure how I'm 'making stuff up". I started my statement with "What if" so that kind of sounds like I'm not sure what the future holds, doesn't it? Apparently, your current understanding of Physics and Quantum Theory has limited an advanced alien race from ever landing on our planet...which I find very funny!

And yes, I would hope an advanced race could travel without dealing with the frustrations of distance, speed and time. I mean that would be the point of advancing something - you overcome the obvious obstacles to improve the product/service. (For us) The obvious obstacles when traveling - distance, speed and time, even though they have nothing to do with the definition of TRAVEL. It only means to 'advance from one place to another'.

Again, open that box up and let some air in. Limited thinking blocks the imagination. Without imagination we would never advance.

reply to post by zorgon


Just curious as to your own thoughts of any of this taken from alleged crashed or otherwise aquired alien/visitor or Nazi technology. Have you aleady a thread like this on ATS?

i just went through this thread about a week ago, i didn't consider aliens not being able to find us but it's just as well. i started off by assuming that aliens are real and that they could "possibly" be here but if they are here it doesn't matter.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Scientific arrogance at its finest. When Sagan took this view himself, I wondered if he was perhaps acting as a disinfo agent, or actually believed this.

A few hundred years ago, we were positive we were at the center of the universe. A few thousand years ago, we were sure that the suns and planets were gods. And we are arrogant enough to claim that in our scientific infancy, we know for a fact that it's not possible. How ludicrous.

We know next to nothing. Our scientists THINK they do, but they keep learning new things, and realizing they were wrong about other things. Look at how far we've come in a mere 100 years. Consider what we'll be like (if we don't blow oursevles up), in 10,000 years. Scientists will look back on us now, and put us in the same category that we consider neolithic humans to be at right now.

We have absolutely no real idea about much of space, qauntum physics, or in fact, I'd guess dozens of other scientific branches and ideas we don't even KNOW about right now.

What we think is impossible now, we'll realize is quite easy, just as we are doing things now, that 200 years ago we thought was not possible. And I'm amazed at the close-minded, arrogance of scientists that really think they've got it all figured out.

News flash: They don't.

Originally posted by damagedoor
Zorgon - very kind of you to supply so many links, although I could have done without the sarcasm.

Your welcome... and once you have been here awhile you will get used to my style.

Having looked at several of them, I do feel it's all far less impressive than it may appear to some, but there you go. People can read and make up their own mind,

PRECISELY Those links are merely starting points proving that main stream science, the military and researchers in general are actively studying these areas and making amazing advancements. If one is to lazy to follow the trails of data to find out the true state of the art available at the public 'need to know' level... then they really don't have credibility when they say "IT AIN'T SO"

but I'd hate for anyone to see lots of mentions of 'warp drives' and take away the impression that they actually exist or are being built. Or that traversable wormholes have been proven to exist. And so on.

Well too bad... because that is exactly what we are trying to do here... find evidence and show that indeed we DO have such technology... hidden from the average Joe...

After all... this IS a conspiracy site... looking for conspiracies

I'd be reluctant to perform it myself, seeing as all it would really do is kill me instantly and produce an exact replica somewhere else. Great. That's the main reason why it would be rubbish, assuming it was ever discovered to be possible.

That was Doctor McCoy's beef as well... but what if the... nah never mind... to way out there for you

Never mind getting to us. My original point remains: realistically, how do they find us in the first place?

They do like we do... look for exoplanets with water worlds that are most likely to have life... So far we have found 228 Exoplanets around nearby stars.

HD149026 is a star in the constellation Hercules.



Around this star we found a Jupiter size planet in transition



We even know it's interior structure..



Now if us puny humans can do this with our backwards technology... why would it be hard for a race that has already achieved space travel to do?

Lets not even talk billions of light years... Perhaps they are our neighbors at Alpha Centauri (α Centauri / α Cen), also known as Rigil Kentaurus, Rigil Kent, or Toliman, being only 1.34 parsecs, or 4.37 light years away from our Sun.

We have also been broadcasting radio waves for the last 100 years or so so everyone living within 100 light years of Earth has heard us by now...

Only problem is they are just now getting those old Alien movies and stories where we keep shooting the Aliens or wiping out the Martian ala HG Wells "War of the Worlds" Not a very friendly message huh?

But more important our solar system scream WATER...

Earth has a mainly water spectrograph signal, Europa is a ball of Ice, there is ice on Mars, Mercury, the Moon and even Pluto's moon Charon has geysers of ice So that would make us attractive as a spot to check out

And last but not least... many here believe that we were created by Ancient Alien visitors and thus it would seem logical that they would remember where we were and be able to find their way back

PS God is an ET... he is not of this Earth

The title of this thread is actually unbelievable in this day and age. Its like a blast from the past, the dark ages relived. Personally, however, I don't believe this is probable amongst the public, so it makes me wonder who is behind such nonsense.

www.agoracosmopolitan.com...

Jim Marrs further presents that Mr. Aldrin said, "The first unusual thing that we saw I guess was one day out or pretty close to the Moon. It had a sizable dimension to it". Aldrin said the Apollo crew at first thought the object was the Saturn 4 booster rocket (S-IVB); but, he added, "We called the ground and were told the S-IVB was 6,000 miles away."

Mr. Aldrin described the UFO as a cylinder, while Armstrong said it was "really two rings" Two connected rings". Collins also said it appeared to be a hollow, tumbling cylinder. He added, "It was a hollow cylinder. But then you could change the focus on the sextant and it would be replaced by this open-book shape. It was really weird." ...



ASTRONAUTS NElL ARMSTRONG and BUZZ ALDRIN speaking from the Moon: “Those are giant things. No, no, no .... this is not an optical illusion. No one is going to believe this!”

- MISSION CONTROL (HOUSTON CENTER): “What...what...what? What the hell is happening? What’s wrong with you?”

- ASTRONAUTS: “They’re here under the surface.”

- MISSION CONTROL: “What’s there? Emission interrupted... interference control calling Apollo II.”

- ASTRONAUTS: “We saw some visitors. They were there for awhile, observing the instruments.”

- MISSION CONTROL: ”Repeat your last information.”

- ASTRONAUTS: “I say that there were other spaceships. They’re lined up on the other side of the crater.”

- MISSION CONTROL: “Repeat...repeat!”

- ASTRONAUTS: “Let us sound this orbita ..... In 625 to 5... automatic relay connected... My hands are shaking so badly I can’t do anything. Film it? God, if these damned cameras have picked up anything... what then?”

- MISSION CONTROL: “Have you picked up anything?”

- ASTRONAUTS: “I didn’t have any film at hand. Three shots of the saucers or whatever they were that were ruining the film.”

- MISSION CONTROL: “Control, control here. Are you on your way? Is the uproar with the U.F.O.s. over?

- ASTRONAUTS: “They’ve landed there. There they are and they are watching us.”

- MISSION CONTROL: “The mirrors, the mirrors...have you set them up?”

> - ASTRONAUTS: “Yes, they’re in the right place. But whoever made those space ships surely can come tomorrow and remove them. Over and out.”

There is an unconfirmed report, also documented by Steve Omar, that when Buzz Aldrin opened the door after landing on the Moon, he immediately saw a transparent etherical being staring at him outside. Welcome to the Moon?? Allegedly, NASA Director Kraft added that there was a public and a secret private A.S.A. radio frequency between Moon and Mission Control and that the conversation above took place during a mysterious two minute interruption in public transmissions. To prove it is the truth, hundreds of independent CIVILIAN radio operators with powerful VHF equipment separately reported hearing the AME spaceship report from the Apollo moon-walkers!

"Soviet radio operators also picked it up and published it in Moscow. Another mysterious radio message from the Moon was broadcast on French public television only one time before it was censored AFTER it leaked out. That transmission appeared to be a mysterious clearly spoken ALIEN LANGUAGE," further reports Steve Omar.

The famous French historian and author Robbert Charroux published the transmission which has been suppressed in the U.S. It came from U.S. astronaut Worden who transmitted it to NASA, and expert linguists have been unable to translate the message.

Deny Ignorance!

Edit to add: this site is loaded with information. Far be it from me to debunk each and every one of these gentlemen.
www.internationalnewsagency.org...

I suppose there are those are willing to. But I'm not falling for it.

[edit on 10-12-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by majestictwoI think its all to easy to have a theory become real in peoples minds.

Yes it is and if you read Skyfloating's thread it may also be possible that we create a reality if enough believe it

and can I say UK jurnos are happy to print it because "a source said".

As do most forums and if the 'source' has enough charisma, like Nassim Haramein you can spew any old thing and the groupies will swoon at your feet (just listen to his audience )

The reason I say this is just because there have been an increase in so called sightings it in no way improves the probability of aliens being here now.

Well it is my 'theory' that 80%ish of 'UFO's are in fact 'Critters' that are native to our atmosphere and local space. I believe the increase in sightings is due to two factors. A) we are more aware of them and B) due to changes in local space time that is effecting the climate in the entire solar system I believe we are seeing an increase in activity... perhaps something like a 'breeding cycle' The Tallahassee UFO is a perfect example of one 'giving birth'

If more people looked at this aspect it would explain a lot. But hey... what do I know? I'm just a nut case

In-fact I would suggest opposite because why hasn't one of these thousands of sightings been confirmed as alien visitors. More over the longer this goes on the less likely it will be.

IF they are indeed plasma life forms there would be no physical evidence; there would be no 'alien visitor' to confirm; they would appear to shape shift like an amoeba; they would appear fuzzy by day, glowing by night; they would appear to move about at random with no purpose; they could execute bone crushing maneuvers and would no more feel inertia than a lightning bolt would...

But that is for another thread... Just thought I would toss it into the "probabilities'

Now just a few tips on this..

The name 'Critters' goes back as far as the Fifties so its not a new theory
Star Trek "The Immunity Syndrome" has already gone there

Just a quick search... to show I am nit a total wacko

Physicists Discover Inorganic Dust With Lifelike Qualities
Plasma is essentially the fourth state of matter beyond solid, liquid and gas ... The researchers hint that perhaps an inorganic form of life emerged on the ...
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070814150630.htm

Dark Plasma Theory
Evolution of Plasma Life Forms on Earth. ... Plasma life forms evolved on these interpenetrating counterpart Earths, just like it did on the visible planet.
www.plasmametaphysics.com/

Unexplained Mysteries :: Plasma life forms
Nov 12, 2007 ... David Brin's Sundiver also speculated on plasma life forms. ... If that is so, then it will mean that plasma life forms are the most common
www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=111062

Plasma/aerogel life forms
Since unlike water, air is an insulator and can support long-range electric fields, an aerogel/plasma life form might propel itself by manipulating e-fields
amasci.com/freenrg/aerocrit.txt

Plasma blobs hint at new form of life - 17 September 2003 - New ...
Researchers recreating the atmosphere of the early Earth have made cells that reproduce and communicate - but they are made of gas.
www.newscientist.com/article/dn4174-plasma-blobs-hint-at-new-form-of-life.html


Results 1 - 10 of about 4,440,000 for Plasma life forms. (0.23 seconds)

Well if I am crazy, I share that with at least 4,440,000 people

Fleabit -

I'm sorry, your post is mostly just nonsensical, anti-scientism rubbish. I'm surprised the computer you typed it on didn't explode in a fit of indignant irony.

The fact that scientific knowledge evolves, changes and develops doesn't mean "anything goes". Presumably, you are happy enough to get on a plane? Drive a car? Get annoyed when your TV stops working? I'm guessing that "scientific arrogance" only applies when you don't personally like the conclusions.

But you're quite right - we could learn anything in the future. Everything we know could be wrong. Who knows - maybe the Earth really does go round the Sun, eh?

Graphix10 -

I'm not meaning to have a go at you, but you are making stuff up. Saying "What if...?" is making stuff up. If I say "how could aliens get here?" you might as well say "they fly here on pink interstellar elephants". Mentioning wormholes and warp drives adds a pseudoscientific sheen to it, but those things are still not proven to be possible. It's no explanation at all.

I suppose it makes a vague kind of sense if you know aliens are already here and therefore need to explain the travel aspect. But I don't see any point simply inventing stuff to explain how something could be possible.

I suspect this is the source of my disagreement with many people on this thread.

Similarly, Zorgon -

We probably agree on a certain amount. The "we were created by aliens" scenario was one I mentioned in my first post on this thread; I said I was discounting it from my argument, not from the realms of possibility. If aliens were proved to be visiting Earth, it seems the most likely scenario to me. However, I see no reason to suspect this actually happened.

Random aliens finding us? It's possible but, I think, unlikely. The sheer endeavour of travelling to every 'suspicious' planet is easily underestimated. Masses of resources. Huge amounts of energy. Generations of aliens. And for what? Possibly nothing there upon arrival. I don't see the point of postulating stuff like "well, maybe they live forever, fly on dreams and live by eating space" to explain something for the sake of it.

If there was life as close as Alpha Centauri, or even within 100 light years, that would suggest there was life pretty much everywhere. And so we would surely see evidence of it very clearly. To avoid that, you need to move into the whole "aliens are everywhere but have the technology and international trade agreements (etc) to hide from us" scenarios. Which are unfalsifiable and unscientific, and worth considering for amusement only.

oops

[edit on 10-12-2008 by zorgon]

Odds are, they are not only here..but EVERYWHERE!!!!!


blog.wired.com...

theoretically they 'may' be here or 'have' been here.
factually there is nothing to say that they have or currently are here.
all the evidence to date so far is either 'open to interpretation' (proves nothing) or 'flights of fancy' (bs) neither of which is actually factual.