African Americans and Crime Rates in USA, WHY???

i don't know if your stats are right or wrong but i wouldn't be surprised if they're close. in our own country the ratio of white to black (as you guys call it) in jail are disproportionate too.

the conclusion a lot of people jump to is that black people are badder, wilder, less ethical etc and i guess the stats don't lie. but we weren't born that way as many seem to think. i find it hard to explain but when you're born into a society where so many people still judge you by the colour of your skin, even if it's only in the minutest way, it's really hard not to feel oppressed and at some stage just think "screw it, why should i conform. why should i work harder to prove myself. why should i have to"?

add poverty into the mix and the fact that todays generations are garnering their beliefs not only from their own experiences of racism, but from their parents, the media in subtle ways and previous generations ... and you've got huge obstacles to overcome.

hundreds of years of racist thinking and oppression is not going to right itself overnight. the hurt and offense is as ingrained into us as is the weariness of white people about us.

well i'd like to reply but i'm going to respect lokey's point of view and wait for the op's response.

provide some facts, or at least some thought based on something other than fear.

I have thought about this same topic off and on for a few years now and have come up with somewhat of a theory.

It's because they was brought up in a racist enviroment.

I'm not talking about racism against white people. I'm talking about racism toward society.

Alot are teached that society is against them because they are Black and like anyone who thinks that someone doesn't like them they take a stance against that individual. They are put in the mind set that no matter what they do they are going to screwed over. So what do they do? They join like minded individuals who offer them the chance to make alot of money through drug sell. They are given the chance to own their neighborhood with fear and if someone challenges their area they fight back with bullets. They may live in poor neighborhoods, but they wear expensive shoes and clothes, all without having to provide to the society that is "against" them. They know the risk, but see it as a the lesser of the two evils. They would rather die then get an education, go to college and work for a society they were taught will never give them a fair deal.

Just a theory in progress.

Originally posted by Mozzy
mods please remove this post and ban the op. this is nothing but racist jargon based on the ops fear of said offenders.

had the op been stabbed, shot, impregnated, or otherwise harmed by said races the op would have stated it in his post.

he's not being racist. he's asking a question a lot of people fear to ask because they don't want to be labeled as racist.

and it's a valid question.

i tried to answer it with my first post but know i've done a dismal job of it. i'm too emotionally involved and never can put down in writing what my head knows. ironically ... the one person i do know who can ... is a white lady, lol.

reply to post by DroolsAlot


You have to recall the Great Wise One, Lyndon B. Johnson and his Great Society.

They basically broke up black families. They were paying young black women money per illegitimate child. The more illegitimate children, the more cash these young girls could generate. Many children had different fathers, and there was no father figure in the picture, and eventually, look and see, many of these children's grandmothers ended up raising them.

No core values, no imparting of moral values, no family unit. Just get by on your own, the best you can, and if it takes breaking the law or lying to authorities to get a financial gain, then so be it.

That began in the 1960's. This is two generations later and the situation has only gotten worse. Comedian Bill Cosby has been a severe critic of how this immorality has hurt the black community.

And he's been reviled by "black leaders" such as the various "Reverands" whose livelihood is based upon divisions and inequities. Why the inequities? Instead of doing homework, they're out on the basketball court, hanging around on the corner, or getting involved in crime-related activities.

And who's to guide them in a different direction?

LBJ should burn in hell for the damage he did. He took away motivation to excel. He took away the family unit. He rewarded outright immorality.

African Americans and the crime rate? Raised that way with those values, what else would anyone expect?

Originally posted by jd140
I have thought about this same topic off and on for a few years now and have come up with somewhat of a theory.

It's because they was brought up in a racist enviroment.

I'm not talking about racism against white people. I'm talking about racism toward society.

Alot are teached that society is against them because they are Black and like anyone who thinks that someone doesn't like them they take a stance against that individual. They are put in the mind set that no matter what they do they are going to screwed over. So what do they do? They join like minded individuals who offer them the chance to make alot of money through drug sell. They are given the chance to own their neighborhood with fear and if someone challenges their area they fight back with bullets. They may live in poor neighborhoods, but they wear expensive shoes and clothes, all without having to provide to the society that is "against" them. They know the risk, but see it as a the lesser of the two evils. They would rather die then get an education, go to college and work for a society they were taught will never give them a fair deal.

Just a theory in progress.

i think you've got a good handle on what's going on. it's all that and more i think. it's more complex but you've hit the crux of the matter. the only thing i would add is that these days ... it's relatively unconscious.

well it seems to me that many of you are incapable of independent thought and analysis. you are forced to choose, based on the emotions present, one side or the other.

if any of you would be in a thread that claimed white people were responsible for the death of millions of indians and mexicans you would be the first to raise a flag. for some reason you have chosen this as a haven to prove your evenmindedness.

i've known people that were banned IMMEDIATELY for posting drivel like this on ATS. i suppose it's because it's a wednesday night and the mods really don't care.

i will use this thread to support my own belief that most people are mediocre and cannot therefore be expected to produce anything but that. afterall it's what's to be expected.

(by the way.. quite saying your when it's "you're")

Originally posted by Mozzy
well it seems to me that many of you are incapable of independent thought and analysis. you are forced to choose, based on the emotions present, one side or the other.

if any of you would be in a thread that claimed white people were responsible for the death of millions of indians and mexicans you would be the first to raise a flag. for some reason you have chosen this as a haven to prove your evenmindedness.

i've known people that were banned IMMEDIATELY for posting drivel like this on ATS. i suppose it's because it's a wednesday night and the mods really don't care.

i will use this thread to support my own belief that most people are mediocre and cannot therefore be expected to produce anything but that. afterall it's what's to be expected.

(by the way.. quite saying your when it's "you're")

i appreciate your zero tolerance to anything racist and admit my own hackles are usually raised when anyone even "tries" to broach such a subject.

but this thread author is only asking a question using "probably" real stats and his own observations. he's not making horrible remarks or stating any racist conclusions.

some people really DO want to know the answers to his questions. this thread and others like it are a chance for us to discuss it in a non-hostile environment.

i appreciate your zero tolerance to anything racist and admit my own hackles are usually raised when anyone even "tries" to broach such a subject.

i do not have zero tolerance to anything but blind ignorance. i'm glad you admitted it.

but this thread author is only asking a question using "probably" real stats and his own observations. he's not making horrible remarks or stating any racist conclusions.

well let's start giving away student grants to PROBABLY real aliens ok? how about let's start giving your paycheck to PROBABLY real taxes. would you be ok with that? how about let's start doing surgery on some PROBABLY real brain problems. his post TITLE is a racist conclusion and the lack of his respone thereof is proof of it!

some people really DO want to know the answers to his questions. this thread and others like it are a chance for us to discuss it in a non-hostile environment.

good for those people, wherever they are. you already admitted you are not hear for answers and that it's only because you've been "hackled".

Originally posted by Mozzy
well it seems to me that many of you are incapable of independent thought and analysis. you are forced to choose, based on the emotions present, one side or the other.

if any of you would be in a thread that claimed white people were responsible for the death of millions of indians and mexicans you would be the first to raise a flag. for some reason you have chosen this as a haven to prove your evenmindedness.

i've known people that were banned IMMEDIATELY for posting drivel like this on ATS. i suppose it's because it's a wednesday night and the mods really don't care.

i will use this thread to support my own belief that most people are mediocre and cannot therefore be expected to produce anything but that. afterall it's what's to be expected.

(by the way.. quite saying your when it's "you're")

By the way.. IT IS NATIVE AMERICANS, NOT INDIANS.

You want to start a post about it feel free, I will gladly post a comment, right now we are staying on topic and answering the OPs question. You have done nothing but cry and cry about how his question is racist. Stop crying and do something about it. Contact a Mod and if they feel that it is racist then they will take appropriate actions. If you choose not to then it is your fault that this thread is still going and you can cry about it to yourself and leave us be.

reply to post by Mozzy


I don't consider myself incapable of independent thought. I witnessed it through the decades. Prior to this Great Society, black families were very close, very well spoken, very sensitive about being good members of the local communities.

You see, there's nothing that's free. There's a price for everything. It will always be paid. Up front, as you go, or down the road, but the price will be paid in full.

This "free" money for just birthing kids? Not so cheap now, is it?

And if discussions of race trouble you, I would suggest you avoid them.

Simple problem, simple solution.

btw, my grandfather is half indian. i think i can speak the name however i want.



[edit on 3-12-2008 by Mozzy]

Originally posted by Mozzy

i appreciate your zero tolerance to anything racist and admit my own hackles are usually raised when anyone even "tries" to broach such a subject.

i do not have zero tolerance to anything but blind ignorance. i'm glad you admitted it.

but this thread author is only asking a question using "probably" real stats and his own observations. he's not making horrible remarks or stating any racist conclusions.

well let's start giving away student grants to PROBABLY real aliens ok? how about let's start giving your paycheck to PROBABLY real taxes. would you be ok with that? how about let's start doing surgery on some PROBABLY real brain problems. his post TITLE is a racist conclusion and the lack of his respone thereof is proof of it!

some people really DO want to know the answers to his questions. this thread and others like it are a chance for us to discuss it in a non-hostile environment.

good for those people, wherever they are. you already admitted you are not hear for answers and that it's only because you've been "hackled".

lol. ok then dude.

i've tried to understand where you're coming from but by your answers i've got you all wrong.

that's cool. have a good day.

reply to post by DroolsAlot
Hip Hop is nothing new. It's a spin off of the "ghetto culture" I saw back in the 70's while I was a nursing student. I must have shut the morgue drawer on a few dozen heroin over doses as well as stabbing and shooting victims, all weighed down with their massive gold chains, big pinky rings and pimp'in outfits.

Drugs, guns, public vulgarity, disrespect of others, music that isn't music or doesn't take real talent to create. Now, it has spread to our white middle class youth - it's the dumbing down of America and maybe the planet as a whole.

The difference between criminals that get thrown into jail and those that swindle money is how the actual crime of stealing is committed.

Take someone's money at gunpoint and it's mugging or robbery punishable by jail time.

Take someone's money by defraud via bankrupting a company or selling out your shares when you know the company you are heading is going to "go down" often times is not punishable, even though these CEO's and company officials end up hurting a lot more people and getting richer, they "didn't get caught" ie: they were not overtly violent.

Stealing from any person by either pointing a gun at them or by taking their pension is wrong. Our society only punishes those individuals that were stupid enough to "get caught" and that's the key word, stupid.

Steal within the legal limits of the law and that's acceptable, you end up with a nice big house, nice new car, private school and nanny for the kids and a summer home in the Carribean. Doesn't matter how many people you robbed of their pension and destroyed their life, making them have to work until they die with no chance of retirement. If you commit theft legally that's okay.

If you take someone's money AND the method you use is "illegal" you go to jail.

Either way is wrong and maybe these people with a lower intellect are reacting to the injustices of our society's two sets of rules.

Case in point. Are any of the executives, CEO's from AIG going to jail?

OLEAN, N.Y. - Hundreds of people here in western New York, all closing in on retirement, have learned a bitter lesson about pensions and the law that guarantees them.
Two years ago, their employer, the oil services giant Halliburton, unexpectedly started urging them to take their pensions early, warning that they would otherwise lose their right to take their benefits in a single check. The workers signed up to receive their money right away, but the money was much less than they had earlier been told they had coming. Confused and angry, some have sought to win back the remainder of their pensions, or at least to get an explanation of how Halliburton could legally reduce their benefits.
Today, what the workers find most distressing is that a law that is supposed to protect pensions has failed them.
On a professional basis, I became quite depressed about this whole thing," said Gene Moore, the former general counsel of the Halliburton unit that was affected, a joint venture known as Dresser-Rand. Mr. Moore, 56, resigned shortly before the pension controversy and was therefore not part of the group that lost benefits involuntarily. But he was concerned enough to spend months seeking possible legal remedies. Ultimately, he decided he was wasting his time.
"Built into the statutes now are clearly wrongs for which there is no punishment," said Mr. Moore, who now practices law in Houston. In an e-mail response to questions, Halliburton said, "Halliburton has honored its commitment to Dresser-Rand employees under the pension plan, followed the letter and spirit of the laws applicable to the plans, and made no profit related to the plan."
The company further stated that if any company had let the workers down, it was its former partner in the joint venture, Ingersoll-Rand. An Ingersoll-Rand spokesman, however, disputed that assertion. The case of the Olean workers is an illustration of a gaping hole in the nation's safety net. Tens of thousands of Americans are discovering, as they approach retirement, that money they were promised is not forthcoming. Some of the most prominent cases involve companies, like airlines, that are in severe financial distress and cannot keep their pension funds going. But others involve profitable companies, like Halliburton, that reduce anticipated benefits by tens of thousands of dollars even though their pension funds are healthy - and even though a 1974 federal law says pensions are guaranteed.
The law's protection, however, does not address a major feature of traditional pensions, the type known as defined-benefit pensions. Such pension plans allow workers to build up the biggest part of their benefit, by far, late in their careers. The rules require companies to pay into their pension plans years in advance on the assumption that older workers will stay and earn the big promised rewards. But if something then keeps workers from earning that part of their benefit, there will be extra money in the pension fund - a windfall, if a company can recover it, said Jeremy Gold, a New York-based independent consulting actuary
"This is a national problem," he said of the hidden risk such plans can pose to employees.
The type of benefit that the Olean workers lost is known as an early retirement subsidy. It gives employees the right to retire early with the same, or nearly the same, benefit as if they had worked straight through to age 65. Many companies have put such provisions into their pension plans as a way of easing workers out the door before they pass their prime.
As workers reach early retirement age, the subsidy becomes very valuable, accounting for as much as 60 percent of their total pension benefit. To keep companies from denying workers their benefits at this point, Congress amended the pension law in 1984, making it illegal to amend a plan to revoke early retirement subsidies when employees are close to claiming them.
But some companies have found a loophole in the law during mergers and spinoffs, pension advocates say.

www.lucentretirees.org...
Halliburton Company was run & bankrupted by GWB. He made a fortune getting out at the right time swindling many people of their pension.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by Mozzy
btw, my grandfather is half indian. i think i can speak the name however i want.

and if you're so race conscious then why doesn't the title of the thread bother you?

So if I was a minority then it would be alright for me to use derogatory names if I was talking about my own race?

He asked a question, he did not use a racial slur. Refer to the second part of my post if you have a problem with the title of the thread.

By the way, an Indian is someone who is from INDIA.

skin pigmentation has no link to behavior. your question was probably innocent initally, until you started going into details about the specific races you regarded as "thugs" in your neighborhood. maybe it would be the wiser question to ask what is it about your area that causes these types of behaviors....regardless of race?

whatever, you can keep believing that blacks cause more crime and discuss why all you want. hold a tissue next to your eye while you do it cause someone might be watching and they'll think you're so wonderful for trying to understand.

wait, that doesn't make any sense does it?

of course it doesn't, guess why?? cause the op hasn't once replied to his post. you have no frame of reference.

Originally posted by Mozzy
mods please remove this post and ban the op. this is nothing but racist jargon based on the ops fear of said offenders.

had the op been stabbed, shot, impregnated, or otherwise harmed by said races the op would have stated it in his post.

Actually, if you must know, I was robbed on Fathers Day this year, i came home to a black dude running out of my yard. Little did i know, once i went in my house, it was ransacked. They tried to steal my big screen tv (which i found outside after the cops showed up, they took my digital camera, my bowl full of change, my xbox360 and about 15 games, a bunch of dvds, and my backpack, which im assuming they used to haul stuff out with.

Originally posted by Mozzy
mods please remove this post and ban the op. this is nothing but racist jargon based on the ops fear of said offenders.

had the op been stabbed, shot, impregnated, or otherwise harmed by said races the op would have stated it in his post.

Oh and also, im 75% native american.

a testament to the visual nature of human beings. You got robbed by a dude....if he were anything else other than asian perhaps which would have distinctly stuck out in your mind you would have left the race out.....pigmentation in the skin and behavior in the mind have no links.....regadless of what dude robbed you. and i am sorry to hear you were robbed btw