Rethinking Bird-Brains

Hello ATS.

I would like to share some interesting videos for you all, we typically think of only humans and chimps as smart animals, but here are some clips of birds using--and in some cases even making--their own tools.

The jury is out on whether these behaviors are instinctual or learned.

Egyptian Vulture Uses Rocks As Tools (scroll to 1.00)

Crow makes and uses tools

Crows watch and understand street lights

Parrot using tools

reply to post by asmeone2


Hey. I didn't watch the videos but my mother collects exotic birds so I have experienced their intelligence first hand. She once told me certain breeds of birds have the equivalent intelligence and memory of a five year old child.

My mother has one white cockatoo in particular named Troy that is extremely smart. He makes 'tools' in his cage the he uses to unscrew the bolts so she has to constantly come up with new ways to keep him in. He's undone screws, locks, bolts, wire, and who knows what else. His white cockatoo girlfriend named Helen (Helen of Troy... aw how sweet lol) is kept in a separate cage from him overnight and he is constantly trying to get to her. We have to keep them apart for her sake because he gets too sexually aggressive with her at times. But it's fascinating to watch all the things he does to get out.

Then a green parrot she has, named Sonica, calls me 'Ashley Daughter' although we never taught her that. But she definitely knows I'm the daughter. They're fascinating to watch and extremely intelligent creatures.

reply to post by AshleyD


Oh yes, parrots and cockatials are also very intellgent! I did not include so many videos of them though, because most people are already familiar with that.

Often times I watch the wild birds around my house acting symbiotically. For example, the hawks that live around here will sometimes follow around the vultures so that they can find the thermals. Oh, and it is interesting to me that the Egyptian Vulture in the video and the Turkey VUltures we have in the US look almost like photographic negatives of each other, even though they are not related at all!

Nice find A, S+F.

For years we had thought bird brains were minuscule and inferior to mammals. Many had also used it as a derogatory term. Only do we now realize that the brains of birds are quite large compared to their head size. Birds have been shown to be adept in counting, associative learning, crafts, language and conceptual skills.

Some still consider the human mind to be unique, with animals capable of only the simplest mental processes. But a new generation of scientists believe that creatures, including birds, can solve problems by insight and even learn by example, as human children do. Birds can even talk in a meaningful way.

Source

It has also been shown that birds may be able to show empathy and have the capability of addressing point of views other then their own.

The control for the experiment was a black dot, the color of the birds feathers, placed in the same spot. The birds did not pick at this dot, suggesting that the dot itself was not disturbing to them, but rather that it was the presence of something recognizably foreign promoting the picking behavior. Self-awareness is an essential component in the development of empathy. It lies at the core of ego-centric awareness, which is the first step in the development of social intelligence. The quality of self-awareness promotes (although it does not always guarantee) the development of ‘other' awareness, which is the "I-Thou" of ethnocentricity

Source

Who knows maybe we can learn a lot from these 'bird brains'.

-Ign0RanT

Originally posted by Ign0rant
Nice find A, S+F.

For years we had thought bird brains were minuscule and inferior to mammals. Many had also used it as a derogatory term. Only do we now realize that the brains of birds are quite large compared to their head size. Birds have been shown to be adept in counting, associative learning, crafts, language and conceptual skills.

Some still consider the human mind to be unique, with animals capable of only the simplest mental processes. But a new generation of scientists believe that creatures, including birds, can solve problems by insight and even learn by example, as human children do. Birds can even talk in a meaningful way.

Source

Well I can vouce for that.

There is a flock of crows in my neighborhood, (huuuuge ones too!) and this morning they came into my front yard.

I had hung a pine cone up in a tree. It was covered in peanut butter and bird seed.

I watched as 2 of the crows got on the branch it was tied to and shook it, then the rest of them down below picked up the seeds below.

Yes, we could learn a thing or two.

I don't really have much to add to the conversation, except to share this video from the TED Conference by Josh Klein on the "Amazing Intelligence of Crows". It shows some clips of the same videos you've posted, as well as detailing an experiment to build a crow "vending machine" to see if they could figure out and operate mechanics as a way to further co-habitation relationships with man rather than continuing a parasitic relationship.

Interesting vids. Theres currently a debate going on amongst biologists about whether or not parrots do show any intelligence or whether its simply superficial. Raptors and other Bird of Prey on the other hand have been shown to be highly adapt when compared to other modern birds.

In my short search for the perfect pet I realised, like you, that birds are underrated. The Crows are exceptionally smart with social structures more complex in places than that of chimps. Out of the Crows, the New Caledonia Crows are the smartest.

I thought this video was pretty wild, but some might say it shows a lack of intelligence, or at least interest in self-preservation, on the birds part.

I haz a hand-reared Grey.

Not one of the anal-probe types, but the squarking feathered type.

The potential intelligence of our feathered friends was well-studied by Irene Pepperberg. Here's an anecdote from her new book about her recently deceased African Grey, Alex:

The students occasionally took Alex to the washroom, where there was a very large mirror above the sinks. Alex used to march up and down the little shelf in front of the mirror, making noise, looking around, demanding things. Then one day in December 1980 when Kathy Davidson took him to the washroom, Alex seemed really to notice the mirror for the first time. He turned to look right into it, cocked his head back and forth a few times to get a fuller look, and said, "What's that?"
"That's you," Kathy answered. "You're a parrot."

Alex looked some more and then said, "What color?"

Kathy said, "Gray. You're a gray parrot, Alex." The two of them went through that sequence a couple more times. And that's how Alex learned the color gray.

Alex and Me. Irene Pepperberg

[edit on 3-12-2008 by melatonin]

Yes you are right.
Birds are very smart.
They are smart evolved creatures like us.
They evolved along with us, and apes, and many say and can even prove they are the ancestors of the dinosaurs.
They say Dinosaurs did not become extinct, they just evolved.

reply to post by AgentOrangeJuice

They evolved along with us, and apes, and many say and can even prove they are the ancestors of the dinosaurs.

You mean the Dinosaurs were their ancestors, not the other way round.

Laschiec:

Crow vending machine, huh? Is that science speak for "bird feeder?"

Originally posted by FSBlueApocalypse
Interesting vids. Theres currently a debate going on amongst biologists about whether or not parrots do show any intelligence or whether its simply superficial. Raptors and other Bird of Prey on the other hand have been shown to be highly adapt when compared to other modern birds.

Birds of prey also can live very long lives, compared to other species--they can live 5-6 years or more in the wild, and are often documented living into their 20s or even 30s in captivity. So I think they are smart, and they also have more time to use their intellegence.

reply to post by asmeone2


It wasn't long ago I was reading an article about the worlds oldest Crow had died. It was a pet that managed 59 (roundabouts) years.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by AgentOrangeJuice

 

They evolved along with us, and apes, and many say and can even prove they are the ancestors of the dinosaurs.

You mean the Dinosaurs were their ancestors, not the other way round.

I thought the term ancestors could be used forward and backward.
The modern ancestors of the Dinosaurs etc.
Maybe im just getting creative.

reply to post by AgentOrangeJuice


No. Ancestors come before, descendants come after.

Originally posted by asmeone2
Laschiec:

Crow vending machine, huh? Is that science speak for "bird feeder?"

Were it simply a bird feeder, then other birds (as well as other animals such as squirrels which he makes reference to) would be able to utilize it. It's a testing apparatus to gauge the Crow's intelligence level by presenting it with simple problem solving situations which could eventually be used for training wild crows to preform useful tasks. Again, as said, transforming a parasitic relationship into a symbiotic one.

Also: It appears that Magpies may be able of cognition and self-awareness - a trait that's only thought to occur with the presence of higher brain functions.

www.newscientist.com...

hey i really liked this! I had a cockateil that i knew was very smart, she was always figuring out ways to open her cage until we just decided to always leave it open; but i wasn't aware of just how smart some of these (or all of them) were. it's always good to learn something new, i'm sharing this with some friends and family of mine also! star and flaged
did-a-chuck?

reply to post by Enigma Publius


I tihnk humans have always underestimated the intelligence of these birds because their body language doesn't communicate much to us. Simply they just don't "look" that smart.