Obama Birth Certificate Rears Its Head - Again

Andrew Jackson was born in March 15, 1767. He was born here in the US. The constitution had not even been written yet.

Article 2, Section 1 :

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;

GRANDFATHERED him in.

His father died before his birth (it is even said he died before his conception, but...) His mother died from Cholera working as a nurse during the revolutionary war.

This situation is a non-issue to this debate

I'm an idiot! Sorry!

Were any of the presidents who had immigrant parents born after the Constitution? I'll look into it.

The answer is yes. Most of the others listed in this post were born after the Constitution was written. Herbert Hoover was born August 10, 1874. Chester Arthur on October 5, 1829.

I just happened to pick one that was born before the Constitution was written. :bnghd:

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


No Problem It happens to all of us

Donofrio did a write up on the Presidents who had immigrant parents, it's a good starting place even if you don't agree with his conclusions

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Donofrio did a write up on the Presidents who had immigrant parents, it's a good starting place even if you don't agree with his conclusions

Interesting read. I am not sure if I have time to confirm the veracity of the article and for the time being will take the facts as true as he presented them.

That said..The argument seems to be fully premised on AMERICAN laws and definitions of citizenship as they applied to the parents at the time of each Presidents' birth without regard or discusion of foriegn citizenship claims upon the given immigrant parents.

Okay...I agree with that. I have no doubt having read about Italy and Britain in times of war claiming that American Immigrants were still their subjects and that foriegn citizenship claims/laws upon US citizens were rightly ignored by the US.

So the Leo case is premised NOT upon the idea that Pres. Elect Obama's father conveyed British Citizenship upon him at birth since he doesn't discuss foriegn citizenship laws in his position, only US citizenship laws.

His concern is not that B. Obama SR was a british citizen and conveyed the same to Obama Jr., but rather that his father did NOT have American Citizenship? Okay.

Then from a purely US legal perspective Obama's father's citizenship status in the eyes of the US Gov. at the time of Obama Jrs birth is "None" and his Mother is an American Citizen.

0+1 equals 1...maybe I am off base here and I am just thinking it out.
(non-citizen plus American Citizen) born on US soil should equal full US citizenship since the father's status as a British Citizen/British Citizenship claims is not part of the premise or discussion by Leo and thus does not detract from Obama Jrs. American citizenship (0 as opposed to a lessening value).

Thoughts? My head hurts

Edit to add...If this is the case Leo is making and it seems it is, then any arguments premised on the notion of "Dual Citizenship" being a disqualifier should be re-tooled or thrown out. The argument should be centered on the "Absence of full American Citizenship" for both parents and taken from there.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by maybereal11]

[edit on 5-12-2008 by maybereal11]

reply to post by maybereal11

I make a similar mental exercise here in this question to redhatty.

So you’re of the opinion that only one born to two US citizens, classifies as “natural born” citizen? Is it because of the dual citizenship situation? I’m asking this because there are countries whose legislation doesn’t apply to the children of people who are living abroad, and those children are not granted citizenship for that matter.

In these cases, a child born in the US to a US citizen and an alien of one of those countries, would only have US citizenship. Would that then make that child a “natural born” citizen? Because the child would only be a US citizen at birth?

Basically if it’s only a matter of having dual citizenship at birth, and the origin of the parents or one of the parents doesn’t matter, then I reach the same conclusion as you do: Obama can’t be disqualified for having had dual citizenship at birth, because US law doesn’t recognize dual citizenship (in the sense that doesn’t treat anyone with dual citizenship differently).

Oh to be a fly on the wall in the SCOTUS conference room today!!!

My money remains on them not hearing the case...but I do appreciate the arguments that have been made on this thread that weren't built with manuer...

Haven't heard from Flyerfsfan lately...that is strange

Originally posted by maybereal11
Haven't heard from Flyerfsfan lately...that is strange

Now, now. Don’t pick on FlyersFan. At least, not only on her

There’s certain people who like to comment and perpetuate particular debates who are based on nothing else than personal opinions, and conjecture. This way there’s basically no way you can possibly be wrong. There’s no room for that when you deal with actual facts. Well, I guess there’s always room for denial.

I’m not saying FlyersFan operates like that, I have much respect for her opinions, even though they are about 99% of the time completely opposite of mine, I have no doubt she wholeheartedly believes in what she says. And we can only respect that.

Cheers FlyersFan

if obama was a white man people wouldent care ameica is a justa bunch of raciest nuts who think they alone have the right to be above everyone else. well wake up white people that stupid dream of urs has been over with for many many years now

As per SCOTUSBlog 2 cases were accepted today. Donofrio V Wells is not one of them. Looks like we wait till Monday for the official rejection of the case.

reply to post by danx


I have no issue with different opinions than my own. I don't even really have a big issue with opinions that lack evidence to support it...they are opinions and that is great.

I do have an issue with posting "evidence" in support of your argument that you likely know to be bunk OR changing the wording of some article to suit your case and then qouting it as if it is the "genuine article"...

You are able to let things slide more easily than I am and are better in that regard. I know enough about myself to understand I often let temper and emotion cloud my reasoning when debating. ..Working on it though

[edit on 5-12-2008 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by maybereal11
Haven't heard from Flyerfsfan lately...that is strange

I've been in bed nursing a head/chest cold.
So .... .... back atchya.
And now I'm going back to bed ...

*groan, sniff, groan, cough, cough .... uh *

BTW - I'm NOT the subject of this thread.

MOVE ALONG.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Sorry you're feeling yucky...ever since i have been taking Americn Ginsing at the slightest symptom, I have not yet had a cold this season (since sept)..and I am exposed to sneezers on a daily basis....... try it worth the money aka Cold fx

edit for sp, wine with supper srry

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Tinkabit]

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Tinkabit]

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Tinkabit]

reply to post by FlyersFan



green tea with honey in a hot bath could not hurt either....

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Tinkabit]

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Tinkabit]

www.cnn.com...#/video/politics/2008/12/05/arena.obama.citizenship.cnn

reply to post by Tinkabit


Was that supposed to be a video about Castro willing to talk with Obama?

reply to post by redhatty


Nah. I was confused first too. you have to dig around the page..., there a piece about the citizenship issue there somewhere - (the URL moved within the player script or something).

It delivered with clear scorn for those who are obviously wrong to inquire into the matter.

Originally posted by Tinkabit


If there is ANY truth to this, then for those that are intersted I can pull up some stuff about Frank Marshall and possible attempts to infiltrate the left movement in those days, let me know.......

If there is any truth to this, then Donofrio's case would definately be hogwash.

But this, I feel is way to try to turn Obama into a "natural-born communist"

Originally posted by Mikey84
[
They then state about him being an Indonesian citizen? Duh! I thought that was obvious and everyone knew that, but he gave it up to become President, he also admitted that he had Kenya citizenship and gave that up. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t born in the USA. I have 3 citizenships – that’s what people usually get when they move somewhere as a PR or have a parent born overseas!



[edit on 4/12/2008 by Mikey84]

Mikey, actually, the claim of Obama being an Indonesian citizen is internet rumor. The problem is that these claims-rumors-have become so pervasive that some have come to believe them as fact. The Indonesia claim is unsubstantiated.

reply to post by its bologna

Obama's Real History - The "Lost" Years
www.youtube.com...
Barack Obama - Born in Kenya II
www.youtube.com...
Barack Obama Born in Kenya?
www.youtube.com...
Kenyan Ambassador Admits Obama Born There - Birthplace "Already Well Known" / Audio Recording
www.youtube.com...
Barack Obama Celebration in Kenya
www.youtube.com...
TPTB want Barack Obama as President even though all sources for his birthplace point to KENYA!

America will need to accept there has been a movement afoot to diminish the power of the people and place them as enemies of the state. Barack Obama is the NEW WORLD ORDER elected president of these United States of America. Our freedoms have been hijacked long before the elections and if you do your homework it began in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Bank when Congress went on vacation.

Peace to all my brothers and sisters. Love one another and keep truth as your shield because MSM is not your friend they are part of the big picture and that is to keep you blind and sidetracked!

reply to post by Tinkabit


Every MSM video I have seen about this issue claim his Certificate Of Live Birth is his actual Birth Certificate. This is why anything on TV should considered "for entertainment only". Watching the spin of the MSM is far more hilarious than anything I have seen on Comedy Central lately.