Dow plunges 679 points

Originally posted by anachryon

Originally posted by mybigunit
Ill make it very simple. Bottom will be around DOW 4000 and gold within the next two years will be at least $10,000 per oz.

I don't think we're going to come out of deflation within two years. Three to five years of deflation and/or stagnation are priced in right now, and we'd need some serious, serious inflation to see AU anywhere near $10k.

Goldbug.

This isnt deflation. It is minimally but this is deleveraging there is a difference. People are selling anything they have to get money. With all of this debt we have and all of this money we are printing on top of our $11 trillion national debt and $60 trillion in national obligations I think its inevitable the government steps in and revalues gold and monetize some of this debt. Here is an interesting article that I found that pretty much agrees with me a friend found it for me

www.silverbearcafe.com...

This has happened before and its going to happen again. They are going to do what it takes to kill the dollar before hand. Read the article it will change your whole mindset.

Originally posted by BostonBill99
I just watched Laszlo Birinyi on MSNBC say "the market has bottomed". Aside from the fact he speaks like he is heavily medicated, IMHO he is a total moron. The market is headed for the basement and we haven't seen the worst yet!

I often wonder how much these talking heads are paid to put a positive spin on any given topic. I guess when you're a member of the elite, you have to do as the TPB orders.

Yeah!, reminds me of the movie (Fun with Dick and Jane).........Where Jim Carrey is on TV and the stocks for his company are falling like a roller coaster......................

Until we have more jobs, in my opinion, it is never going to get any better.

People can not pay for homes, food, etc with no work.

The ones that are working are paying for the ones collecting unemployment.

The government is giving out more and taking in less. It is a cascade.

We need jobs. We can not compete with China , so I see us on the path to becoming like they are over there working for nothing, or having nothing at all.

A bunch of people die, then jobs become available. See a big war on the way soon? It has always been that way in history.

If im not mistaken it dropped like that because they finally decided to officially declare we were in a recession. Of course the majority of us have known this for a while but I guess the news is just getting to wallstreet.

Next MSM Catch Phrase: Quantitative Easing...what we lay-people refer to as Printing.

I finally heard the term used on CNBC this AM for the first time, a few minutes before open. Santelli & Liesman...whoops, make that Leisman were bantering about cratering bond yields. Santelli cited the Fed's QE regime as a potential cause. Leisman quickly replied that he didn't know what Rick was talking about, and immediately side-tracked.

Now...should I be more concerned that Leisman (the purported CNBC Fed expert) may not be familiar with concept of QE...or with the [more likely] prospect that he is intentionally playing possum?

The Fed could buy Treasury notes and bonds or agency bonds in a bid to drive yields lower and "spur aggregate demand," Bernanke said. Many analysts refer to such a policy as "quantitative easing," because the Fed would target a specific amount of money to flood into the economy.

]Marketwatch

Truth is, as Santelli alluded this morning, QE is already an active policy...has been since September.....the last bullet in the bandolero short-of a dire 1933-style devaluation of the currency.

Quantitative easing has begun

or

If inspired, you can suss the numbers for yourself: Fed H.3

Several months back, to illustrate the severity of the [inflationary] path I believed the Fed was preparing to embark-on, I posted a few quotes & a link to Bernanke's famous 2002 helicopter speech titled: Deflation: Making Sure "It" Doesn't Happen Here.

"If we do fall into deflation, however, we can take comfort that the logic of the printing press example must assert itself, and sufficient injections of money will ultimately always reverse a deflation...." *(Quantitative Easing)

"Of course, the U.S. government is not going to print money and distribute it willy-nilly (although as we will see later, there are practical policies that approximate this behavior)." *(You can say that again)

"Yet another option would be for the Fed to use its existing authority to operate in the markets for agency debt (for example, mortgage-backed securities issued by Ginnie Mae, the Government National Mortgage Association)." *(Quantitative Easing)

"We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation." *(Lunacy?)

"A broad-based tax cut, for example....A money-financed tax cut is essentially equivalent to Milton Friedman's famous "helicopter drop" of money."

Full Text

[edit on 1-12-2008 by OBE1]

reply to post by OBE1


Great post. So Im assuming your in agreement with myself? Gold going to skyrocket? Kill the dollar before gold revaluations and eventually a new currency. The gold revaluation I am 90% sure of, the new currency Im not. I dont see how we can ever pay off these debts with the dollar at its current value. They have to kill the dollar. Gold $10,000 I stand by it.

reply to post by OBE1

Next MSM Catch Phrase: Quantitative Easing...what we lay-people refer to as Printing.

I like Quantitative Easing. Much more reassuring.

The Fed could buy Treasury notes and bonds or agency bonds in a bid to drive yields lower and "spur aggregate demand," Bernanke said. Many analysts refer to such a policy as "quantitative easing," because the Fed would target a specific amount of money to flood into the economy.

Jesus Christ. That's not reassuring at all! .. If there are no nations or firms to buy national debts to fund our .. ahem .. habit .. is Bernanke openly stating he supports THE FED TO PURCHASE TREASURY NOTES/BONDS AS A METHOD TO FUND.. OURSELVES????

It's like .. oh snap .. credit cards are maxed out.. oh snap, can't get a new one. I will take this flash card, write VISA on it, add a lil color logo.. smiley face.. oo, cannot forget the name .. ok ..off to go shopping!

Hyper inflation.

THen.. if the Gov bailed out FED member banks, then FED member banks bail out the Gov, and the Gov controls the banks, yet they own our debt.. uh .. do we just form the Corporate States of America, issue stock and form a new Gov?



MBU

Gold $10,000 I stand by it.

If $10,000 only buys 2 weeks of groceries, is it worth it?

This is sickening, it actually makes me physically ill. So they announce on MSM that the country has actually been in recession for the last year and conveniently they wait until after black Friday to announce it.

How much would it have served the American public to know this information a year ago so that they could better position themselves for what is now knocking on their doors. Maybe it wouldn't have but at least the public could make decisions based on information that they believe they can trust their Govt and Media to provide them with. This is beyond belief.

Now a large amount of us saw this coming because we did the research and we used a little bit of discernment, we even tried to share our findings - to which we recieved alot of flack - and why not the MSM was telling everyone we were nuts.

So now a very large percentage of the public just learned that their Govt.. lies to them and worse yet they lie about their money. My worst case scenario begins when the "yuppies" learn that they have been lied to. Well it just happened.

reply to post by Rockpuck


It is if I have enough gold. I tell you and everyone else. Buy physical gold. Inflation is coming whether we like it our not. How do I know? They tell you straight up in all the speeches. They just do it in financial lingo. I like the quantitative easing slogan. Does make you feel more at ease instead of the word INFLATION!!!!

reply to post by mybigunit


OK, I believe you.. the day the Fed purchases US debt I will rob every old woman I see of a wedding band.

If they can truly "ease" inflation so that inflation rises faster then debt.. it may not be all that bad, so long as debt is regulated, as well as credit.

Over do it and the consequences could be severe(er).

reply to post by vapedson


How about "Your tax money being Laundered to pay top executives Act"

or "The Spy on American Citizens Act"

That's what they should really be called.

Yeah, it was actually rather humerous to see this "recession" as BREAKING NEWS!! Weve been in a recession since mid spring, and the effects have hardly been felt... yet. The stock market, in my opinion, crashed because of how badly the busiest shopping day of the year went. I went to the stores, and they were quite a bit slower than past years.

There are a slew of reasons as to why this planet is in the financial toilet. You have greedy CEOs, Enourmous gas prices over the past 2 years, horrible mortage scams, wars that no one can afford, the list goes on and on.

$700 billion bucks to failing banks?? BAD move. Could have piad off failing mortgages, overdue crdit cards, and some cash for those who arent behind, and spend about a quarter of the dough. then banks get paid, people spend more cash, which in turn puts more money into the system. Not a perfect plan, but much better than what is going on today...

As for our financial future?.?.?.... Id say were about halfway to bottoming out. Scary thought. I'm usually a positive person, but i'm also realistic. We will survive this, only after we have learned our lessonS, and actually pinpoint the problems at hand, not put band-aids on them.

Oh yeah, my first post/reply!.. love this site!

Originally posted by aleon1018
I really don't know Paulson, but my gut feeling is that he's scared and confused. I had to change the channel. I wonder who else is going to get bailed out next? Did he even say anything that made sense? Not that I would understand him anyway.

How long before people barricade themselves in their homes with stockpiles of food and ammo?

Trouble is they are bailing out one ship and dumping the water into another.

reply to post by mybigunit

Hi MBU!

Ya know, being a bull-at-heart, I really have to sit on my emotions when it comes to Gold...sometimes it costs when I don't. Yeah, I think Gold does fine. Maybe trades in a range above 700 through most of December...then moves...that take-down in London yesterday was brutal though Gold: The most manipulated market on the planet at the moment. I think the boyz are running a little scared. Treasury credit default swaps are running at record levels for a reason...and still, everybody wants in

* Didn't get to finish MBU...posted prematurely somehow...sorry.

Wanted to add: I'm watching the deliveries on the December Gold contracts like a hawk. Only Dec 1, and we're already about to over-take deliveries for the entire month of Oct....could be the catalyst for a strong move

Keep track here:

Vaporize Comex

GL

[edit on 2-12-2008 by OBE1]

reply to post by venividivici


Man when are people going to stop calling it an GLOBAL RECESSION!
And call it what it is!
THE GLOBAL DEPRESSION!
WHY?
CUASE I AM SO F****** DEPRESSED!

reply to post by OBE1


Thanks for the post man. Im glad Sinclair has a movement going to bust the fraud known as the comex. I still am hopeful for our country. Maybe the movement to get rid of frauds like the FED and COMEX will grow. Ive been doing my part to buy gold although it hasnt been through the COMEX.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

If $10,000 only buys 2 weeks of groceries, is it worth it?

Vital point. But if $10,000 only buys 2 weeks of groceries, what will the $800 you left in your bank instead of investing in gold get you?

Gold is not lucrative but merely preservative.

Today the markets have a change of hart due in part to the unveiled plan by the big 3s.

As they unveiled their plan their stock gained 10% this morning.

See the story here.

money.cnn.com...

[edit on 2-12-2008 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Sillyfool
earlier today on Yahoo Financial news there WAS (notice that I can't find it now) that said that credit card companies are going to reduce the credit lines by 2 TRILLION dollars starting now into next year. Actually started already. My Chase was cut in half from 31K credit line to 15.5K, not that I plan on using it. This cut in credit will squeeze those without cash and jobs. I would also expect the physical money supply to start dropping like the Great Depression 1. Hold on to your cash, it will be hard to get like the 30's. Count on Mass hysteria by those tho can't get food. Welcome Mad Max, lock and load!

My thought is that the whole bailout is wealth redistribution. Citi got a bailout and wants to buy a Spanish construction company. Other banks got a bailout and just used the money to buy out smaller banks. This done on the taxpayer's and future taxpayer's expense. I say its time for a revolution..a New Boston Tea Party.


As far as Chase goes, they are shady and have been for some time. I had a very large balance on my Chase credit card. They arbitrarily decided I was too big a risk, and wanted to raise my interest rates by 5 pts even though my payment history is excellent (no late or slow pays in my life with them or anyone else). I was fortunate enough to have the money to pay these debts off quickly..but there are lots of people who are seeing the increased interest rates, and are unable or unwilling to pay them and just don't. I think they had the right idea.

reply to post by Cythraul


Very Astute point.

I just prefer Silver. MBU has a crush on Gold.

We all have our fixes.

Obama prefers Rhodium I hear.

Marge:

$1 salary, sell our planes, will arive in a hybrid car.

By GOD we HAVE to give them money now!!!

Other then that, they have offered no evidence as to how they will continue functioning. Auto sales decreased 30+% in November. GM will most likely be posting it's single worst quarterly loss next quarter.