Interesting description of masonic function from Manly P. Hall

FREEMASONRY is a fraternity within a fraternity—an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect. Before it is possible to intelligently discuss the origin of the Craft, it is necessary, therefore, to establish the existence of these two separate yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of "free and accepted" men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most august fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcanum arcanorum.Those Brethren who have essayed to write the history of their Craft have not included in their disquisitions the story of that truly secret inner society which is to the body Freemasonic what the heart is to the body human.In each generation only a few are accepted into the inner sanctuary of the Work, but these are veritable Princes of the Truth and their sainted names shall be remembered in future ages together with the seers and prophets of the elder world. Though the great initiate-philosophers of Freemasonry can be counted upon one's fingers, yet their power is not to be measured by the achievements of ordinary men. They are dwellers upon the Threshold of the Innermost, Masters of that secret doctrine which forms the invisible foundation of every great theological and rational institution.

books.google.com... q_gX11KBfaVxZWU-erwcwjE&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPA397,M1
Go to chapter entitled Rosicrucian and Masonic Origins


Basically Manly P Hall, who became a 33rd degree mason (after the writing of this book though), is insinuating that there is a hidden agenda to Freemasonry (in the book he writes of it in a very positive light).

So is the hidden agenda of Freemasonry as benevolent as Hall suggests, or is it something darker (nwo)?

[edit on 1-12-2008 by italkyoulisten]

Mr. Hall didn't become a FreeMason until 1954, well after he wrote the book, as you've noticed.

Much like a lot of folks today, not being personally involved in masonry, he made a good deal of statements that were as he saw them.

Pike refered to a group within Masonry as well, and some masons I've met seem to agrree.

The group is the difference between the people who go into Masonry just to be a Mason, and treat it as a excuse to get out or a boys club, and the ones who take it seriously, due to study work for the degrees and put some effort into seriously earning them.

Edit: I should add however, that for me it's late and I've only glanced through the part of his book you have listed here. I'll be reading through it at work tomorrow, if I have the time.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by RuneSpider]

reply to post by italkyoulisten


Yes, as you and RuneSpider note, referring to "Lectures on Ancient Philosophy..." by Manly Hall 33° is like saying The Next Karate Kid starring two-time Oscar winner Hillary Swank. It's true that Swank won two Oscars, but well after starring in The Next Karate Kid. Likewise, Hall did not become a Mason until some 30+ years after he wrote his "exposés". He wasn't a Mason when he wrote them, and as an outsider, he obviously got some fundamental things wrong.

So what you guys are saying is that because he became a Mason later in his life then his writings about Masonry must be wrong? If you read Hall's work, you will find that he does not speculate without basis. Continue reading past the passage that I posted.

Can it be assumed the two masonic groups he is referring to are the difference between those below 33 and those higher?
Furthermore, I find this quote to be a good summary of the debates on ATS about the nature masonic organizations. Many, especially actual masons, seem to argue masonry to be generally benevolent and well-meaning while others attempt to argue it's dark/evil/etc nature.
I'd guess most masons who defend their institutions are lesser degree masons. And even those who attain 33 might not really be tapped in.

IMO, one of the biggest negative aspects of masonry is the drawbacks it has on the broader community. As an example, frats in college- so you're in a frat and it might help having on a resume later in life. But what about those who weren't in a frat-either applied for one and were rejected or chose not to be in one- they are at a natural disadvantage. Essentially, brotherhoods or fraternal organization, etc. seem to undermine the overall prosperity of the larger society they operate within.

Also, I'm not sure how many reading the quote know what arcanum arcanorum means but its latin for secret of secrets. Cool word!
Also broadly refers to Alester Crowley's "thelemic magical fraternity"
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Moonsouljah
Can it be assumed the two masonic groups he is referring to are the difference between those below 33 and those higher?
Furthermore, I find this quote to be a good summary of the debates on ATS about the nature masonic organizations. Many, especially actual masons, seem to argue masonry to be generally benevolent and well-meaning while others attempt to argue it's dark/evil/etc nature.
I'd guess most masons who defend their institutions are lesser degree masons. And even those who attain 33 might not really be tapped in.

The problem is that this is based in a fundamental misunderstanding about degrees and the role of side orders. There is no such thing as lower or higher level masons, or lower level masons. There are not 33 degrees of freemasonry. There are 3 degrees of freemasonry, and side orders which exist that build upon the lessons of the first three which are optional orders that confer no rank or authority. People obsess over the Scottish Rite because it offers the largest number of degrees leading up to the 33, ignoring that these are all optional, confer no rank, and that the 33rd degree is honorary.

Not to mention we have had at least 1 or 2 33rd degree masons come on here and proclaim the exact same thing I just said.

By the way, there is no higher degree in the Scottish Rite system than the 33rd degree. That's it. There other side degrees are similar. What people are trying to do is create a non-falsifiable masonic conspiracy, whereby every mason that does not acknowledge the existence of the conspiracy is simply dismissed because hes not "high enough."

Originally posted by Moonsouljah
IMO, one of the biggest negative aspects of masonry is the drawbacks it has on the broader community. As an example, frats in college- so you're in a frat and it might help having on a resume later in life. But what about those who weren't in a frat-either applied for one and were rejected or chose not to be in one- they are at a natural disadvantage. Essentially, brotherhoods or fraternal organization, etc. seem to undermine the overall prosperity of the larger society they operate within.

This makes no sense because while freemasonry is a fraternity, it is not a college fraternity. It is against masonic rules to use masonic membership for material gain, and no one is ever going to put their masonic membership on a resume for a job. Masons do not give preference to other masons because of their masonic membership, and anyone who does has broken the ruled and will be thrown out unceremoniously.

What people love to do is to go find a quote from a masonic author and proclaim that this quote must be true because a mason wrote it. Its funny because I never see this happen with things like religion or political ideology, but its a key tactic used routinely by those who are looking for something wrong with masonry. Again and again it is pointed out that, like every other group, there are lots of masons and no one is appointed to speak for masonry itself, so the opinions of anyone quoted is simply their opinion.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by LowLevelMason]

reply to post by LowLevelMason


Yes, Hall does write about how the 33rd degree is honorary [somewhere, I can't remember if it was in this chapter, or in a different book], and you will notice that he makes no claims as to whether it is higher degreed masons or lower who are chosen. All he says is that a select few are chosen, and very few, to practice the Inner Mysteries, aka the Arcanum Arcanorum. Obviously, nobody knows what the Inner Mysteries refers to. In the book, he presents the secret of secrets as a benevolent thing. I decided to mention that he was a 33rd degree because he was obviously accomplished enough to gain such an honor.

I have read Manly P. Halls writings on Masonry. I think that he had to have talked with many Masons either before and/or during the writings to have gotten the knowledge that made the books he wrote possible. Especially since he didn't officially become a mason until AFTER he had wrote the books. He knew what he was writing about. I have read other books and have talked with masons myself who have said the same thing.

Originally posted by Wally Conley
I have read Manly P. Halls writings on Masonry. I think that he had to have talked with many Masons either before and/or during the writings to have gotten the knowledge that made the books he wrote possible. Especially since he didn't officially become a mason until AFTER he had wrote the books. He knew what he was writing about. I have read other books and have talked with masons myself who have said the same thing.

Really? Like who? I love to know what freemasons think there is some sort of hidden high level mason in their midst, as I've been looking for the mysterious high level masons for many years. And since you believe Hall knows these mysterious high level mason secrets, how did he find out about them from high level masons before becoming a mason?

Does the fact that Hall was wrong, as all the major degree rituals are public and online, mean that you just haven't bothered to research this at all and assumed it was correct?

[edit on 1-12-2008 by LowLevelMason]

It's simple, they used him, like they used and are using others outside their 'fraternal organization' to spread their word. And the Mason's are not the only ones who do this. Ev en the Boy Scouts do things like this, getting others to write positive things about them. It's called Public Relations and rewards for those who do their bidding. And at the time he wrote these books, they couldn't be online, as you point out, because there was no internet until decades after he wrote them. And most positive books written on Masonry were used to recruit other 'new blood' into their ranks.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
Pike refered to a group within Masonry as well, and some masons I've met seem to agrree.

The group is the difference between the people who go into Masonry just to be a Mason, and treat it as a excuse to get out or a boys club, and the ones who take it seriously, due to study work for the degrees and put some effort into seriously earning them.

I agree with this and some Masons on my end agree as well (they are the source of the information afterall). "Level" hasn't got anything to do with degrees passed but with the level of genuine attainment.

Originally posted by italkyoulisten

Yes, Hall does write about how the 33rd degree is honorary [somewhere, I can't remember if it was in this chapter, or in a different book], and you will notice that he makes no claims as to whether it is higher degreed masons or lower who are chosen. All he says is that a select few are chosen, and very few, to practice the Inner Mysteries, aka the Arcanum Arcanorum.

Actually, I'm not aware of Hall ever saying that such people were "chosen" for anything by anybody. I interpret Hall's words in that context to mean that some Masons are interested in the esoteric and occult aspects of the fraternity, while most are not. The ones that are interested tend to gravitate toward each other and create either informal study and discussion groups, or formal research societies. This therefore creates a "fraternity within a fraternity", so to speak.

If this was Hall's actual meaning, I would tend to agree with him, and it has been the same in my own personal experience in Masonry.

What I don't understand about Masonry is if its genuine purpose is so amirably great and we just don't understand.... A) why is there so much disinformation from Masons who jump all over these posts and rip them new bum tuckets?, and B) why is the world getting increasingly worse with high level elite masons at the helm?

A Mason who was attempting to groom me for joining the Brotherhood once told me shortly before he gave up his cause towards me, "We know the most powerful people in the world. We know the world's secrets. We will make you into a super-human."

I dunno.... that always struck me as an extremely disturbing comment.

Oh and Why does Freemasonry feel the need to infiltrate the music industry so profusely? When our local indie rock scene gets hijacked by the crappiest band ever with Freemasons at it's helm, and this band rises to fame even though they are a piece of crap (I call it beer punk, because you have to be drunk to think it's clever)... I begin to question it.

I am against Freemasonry as an institution and will advise its members that they have been heavily duped into serving a purpose they clearly don't understand. I'm sorry if you find this harsh, Freemasons. I may have been harsher in the past, but as of now I am simply stating that Freemasonry will backfire upon itself. It already has. Any noble intentions have been replaced with social schmoozing and lust for wealth and power.
I have been courted by several high level Masons, and the power lust in their voices just disturbs me to this very day.

I advise any non-Masons who are thinking of joining to think again. Join like... a bowling league or something instead. Join a bowling league and take some qigong yoga courses with a side of psilicybin (joke...about the psilicybin...maybe)... you'll essentially get the same effect, with your own free will as your guide.

I am not going to say that I know anything for a fact, as I have been surprised by facts before, but as far as I know and as far as anyone I have ever asked, masonry is exactly as it appears. Masons actually like the mystery created by the uninformed because it makes joining the craft seem all that more myterious. I have admitted in the past that one of the reasons I decided to petition the lodge was to find out if there was anything to the stories I had heard. I even asked the current master of the lodge if masons had anything to do with devil worshiping as manny here have stated as fact. he replied, "some may see it that way but no, we don't." That wasnt' the "absolutely not!" I was hoping for but I think he was leaving a bit of wonder in my mind. The best lessons are learned through doing, not reading.
So to get back on topic, there might very well be a group within the group, but none of us have heard about it. And I have noticed the regular members congregate with eachother outside the lodge where as the folks who became masons just to say they are masons (ie. never attend meetings) arent' part of that click. That might be the group brother Hall reffered to.

And to the famous Dunwichwitch, I don't think any "high level mason" ever courted you and promised you power and super human abilities. A lot of people tell stories to make their cause seem more real, then again some tell the truth and hope others will believe them. If it really happened, please give names and lodge numbers so we lower level masons can find out the "real truth". I could use some super human powers myself. And a cape. A red one.

A) why is there so much disinformation from Masons who jump all over these posts and rip them new bum tuckets?, and B) why is the world getting increasingly worse with high level elite masons at the helm?

'Cause most of the posts on this forum either infer or outright state that Masons are evil or stupid. In example:

I am against Freemasonry as an institution and will advise its members that they have been heavily duped into serving a purpose they clearly don't understand.

Some people take offense when people who aren't involved in their society make statements about their society and claim to know more than they do.

As for Masons being in places of power, there's no more than the percentage you'd expect, and even then most of them are not in high places of power, mostly in low level government. There are more left handers in the government at the moment than Masons.



[edit on 2-12-2008 by RuneSpider]

Originally posted by Wally Conley
It's simple, they used him, like they used and are using others outside their 'fraternal organization' to spread their word.

OR Hall read publicly available books and wrote what he felt like. Which is more probable? The simplest explanation is most likely.

These types of theories are self-defeating, because in order to believe this you must give these secret "high level masons" that no one can ever name even more power, enough to covertly recruit Hall, and yet they didn't have enough power to stop him from publishing about the "high levels of freemasonry." The problem is if they can't stop that, then they are not very powerful at all, and thus are not powerful enough to do all the things you need them to do when making up the theory.

Originally posted by Wally Conley
And the Mason's are not the only ones who do this. Ev en the Boy Scouts do things like this, getting others to write positive things about them. It's called Public Relations and rewards for those who do their bidding.

Yet again this theory is self-defeating. First off, masons during Hall's years certainly didn't do any PR. Second, all books are published by Masons because the publisher thought they would sell, not because of positive PR value. Third, if the intention was to create positive PR then these secret high level masons are very stupid, because the works of Hall and Pike have been used and abused by anti-masons since the day they were published to spread anti-mason propaganda.

Originally posted by Wally Conley
And at the time he wrote these books, they couldn't be online, as you point out, because there was no internet until decades after he wrote them. And most positive books written on Masonry were used to recruit other 'new blood' into their ranks.

Right, because writing about mysterious secret levels and the seething energies of lucifer certainly is going to cause the predominately Christian US rush the lodges to get a piece of it. Your theory has defeated itself.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
B) why is the world getting increasingly worse with high level elite masons at the helm?

Talk about asking loaded questions. This presumes first that "high level elite masons exist" - which no one, including you, has ever been able to offer any evidence for. It also assumes the "world is getting increasingly worse" - which you also have not proven. Even if you could prove both you would have to prove that the correlation was based on causation.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
A Mason who was attempting to groom me for joining the Brotherhood once told me shortly before he gave up his cause towards me, "We know the most powerful people in the world. We know the world's secrets. We will make you into a super-human."

I've read this from you again and again. Has it EVER occurred to you that perhaps they were not masons at all? No, couldn't have been! Frankly for someone to believe something like this makes me suspect that you are simply making this up, because this level of gullibility would be suggestive of basic developmental learning disabilities that you don't otherwise display.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I dunno.... that always struck me as an extremely disturbing comment.

Which is why its so disturbing that you don't seem to be capable of understanding that perhaps they were not masons and were either nuts or messing with you.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Oh and Why does Freemasonry feel the need to infiltrate the music industry so profusely? When our local indie rock scene gets hijacked by the crappiest band ever with Freemasons at it's helm, and this band rises to fame even though they are a piece of crap (I call it beer punk, because you have to be drunk to think it's clever)... I begin to question it.

This is hilarious. I love you proclaiming stuff that absolutely has no basis in facts. Freemasonry is made up in many locations of a bunch of 60 year old farmers and plumbers - not exactly the group capable of "infiltrating the music industry." Could it be this little band had no connection with the freemasons, and perhaps people like music you don't? No, couldn't be! Must be those evil masons.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I have been courted by several high level Masons, and the power lust in their voices just disturbs me to this very day.

Yet again, another person to have claimed to have seen these "high level masons" that NO FREEMASON HAS EVER HEARD OF, and yet again no names or titles for anyone to investigate it. Please stop making this stuff up.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I advise any non-Masons who are thinking of joining to think again. Join like... a bowling league or something instead. Join a bowling league and take some qigong yoga courses with a side of psilicybin (joke...about the psilicybin...maybe)... you'll essentially get the same effect, with your own free will as your guide.

I must be honest with you here, frankly I think people like you do nothing but help freemasonry. The stuff you believe and claim is so ludicrous and detached from reality it lets people know that there is no fact in your claims, and its makes it easier than ever before to dismiss the mountain of excrement that is anti-masonic conspiracy theory.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


we can't just dismiss this. The fact is, many people in high places are Masons. They could easily be conspiring. All they have to do is not spread the word.

Originally posted by italkyoulisten
reply to post by LowLevelMason

 

we can't just dismiss this. The fact is, many people in high places are Masons. They could easily be conspiring. All they have to do is not spread the word.

Actually, you can easily dismiss this. Consider that anywhere form 4-6 million masons exist world wide, the vast bulk of them in the US and UK, that means you would expect a portion of masons to be in "high places."

However, the reality is that there are almost no masons in "high places" - there are no world leaders that are masons, and only a handful of members of congress - less than 5, I think, although its been a while since I've had to do research on it so its probably lower than that. Please name who is a mason in "high place."

And why would masons conspire? What is there to conspire about?