Ixtab: The Mayan Suicide Goddess

The information available on Ixtab is scant, but there is an accepted profile:

Ixtab: The Mayan Suicide Goddess

putnam.k12.il.us...

Ixtab was the name of the Suicide Goddess. Ixtab was always shown with a rope around her neck. The Mayans believed that their gods needed blood to be happy. Suicide was believed to lead you to heaven. Therefore, suicide was more common and more acceptable then that today.

library.thinkquest.org...

It was believed that those who committed suicide or died by hanging, together with slain warriors, sacrificial victims, priests, and woman who died in childbirth, went straight to eternal rest in paradise. Ixtab gathered them and brought them there.

A picture of Ixtab, the suicide goddess:



I have been researching suicide. I do so because of a loss of a friend; their act has questioned my Faith. For the record: I cannot believe God would punish suffering with more suffering. Thus, in directly challenging these bards produced by our culture--that suicide from suffering results in a direct ticket elsewhere, most likely bad (in the case of the Maya, an element of duality, an ascribed “underworld” reserved for bad people, and where their suicides definitely did not go)--I say scholars such as Saint Augustine were either ill-inspired or malcontent in their practice of philosophy, or simply full-blown conspirators in an effort to scare the masses to some preconceived end.

The Mayans are pretty sharp, eh? Are they misinformed somehow?

It all seems to come down to a definition of what is suffering. There is a grey area, for "suffering" defined is debatable and subjective. What is pleasure for one is torture for another, the grass being green over some other fence...

Take this nerdy Star Trek Voyager episode called "Death Wish" I saw in college that changed my thinking, about everything: memory-alpha.org...(episode)

Parts one through five were recently removed from youtube, but there is an excerpt available. First, some background: Q suffers, he feels he has existed long enough, and wants to commit suicide; so Captain Janeway and The Continuum agree to have a hearing on Q’s amnesty. Q’s request for amnesty stems from the suffering he has endured by his continued existence in The Continuum. In order to prove this, they all take a journey, ultimately to Q’s plane of existence to see the suffering that he is being forced to endure:



Q wants his life to end, not caring what consequences his actions will have for the Continuum (his family). For Q, suicide (death) is much needed sleep, and there is no fear of damnation, not even a sliver of worry in that respect. He feels entitled to exercise this desire.

Now, for those who seek to argue that omnipotence and immortality are uncorrelated qualities in contrast to us humans, I would argue that we all are shades of such ideas/concepts. Q is no difference than us. We impact our environment in God-like ways, have the same scruples, the same boredom, the same exhaustion… I can take a rock and throw it in the river, an act that may or may not of happened in a billions years (the rock moving such distance). So, not so different. The vitality and lust for life may not be for everyone. Are we to be punished for not believing so?

So, the Mayans were an enlightened bunch, yes? They were not naïve (nor did they drink Evian). The point is, the conspiracy of suicide being evil in our Anglo-Saxon culture is ridiculous, and just one more example of how we can take something that is apart of the human condition and criminalize it. How did we get to where we are now, bumming everyone out with eternal damnation-talk? How is it astute that we make sure that suicides are never far from our tongue-lashings for what is weak and pathetic? Suffering is indeed a fact of life, and some endure it better than others.

So why does the bard still exist? Why the conspiracy of hell for those who suicide?

There is enough negativity in the death of a loved one, we mourn and do not celebrate. And what about the laissez-faire? In the words of George Eastman (the inventor of Kodak film) who left the suicide note: “To my friends: My work is done. Why wait?”

For the sake of argument, I also found that Ixtab

is also associated with the deceitful goddess Xtabay, who appears at night in the form of a beautiful long-haired woman offering pleasure to young men, and then loses them in the woods. Those who return go mad pining for her love, and others are lost forever in the forest. Since Ixtab's portrait appears in pages concerned with eclipses, it has been said that she may be a variant of the moon goddess, who is directly connected with eclipses. Due to her malevolent customs, she is also considered to be a manifestation of Cizin, the Devil.

library.thinkquest.org...

Obviously the information I’ve found on Ixtab is not definitive, but it does raise questions. Why the conspiracy? The cultural bards condemning suicide are chains that we must free ourselves from, this much is certain.

I believe in a loving and forgiving God. That its important that a person doesn't limit their growth and not forgive themselves. I have also known and loved those who have committed suicide, and I know that this is not damnation in the normally believed sense. However, it may lengthen a persons lesson period.

What the Mayans seemed to be worshipping however, when they felt their gods needed blood to be happy and appeased seemed more demonic to me. And I read someone on a thread here mentioning that at its peak, when the Mayan civilization was its most corrupt, with many human sacrifices, and an elitist rule by priests, the people simply left enmass, and went into the jungle and never came back.

reply to post by mystiq


Yes, I agree, and I have heard that about the Maya. Despite the brutality, they did have insight into the spirit world, yes? Their ability to see beyond the veil was something they were good at?

I agree with you. I think that suicide is perfectly justifiable. I have pondered suicide at some times, but I believe that there is an afterlife and it is not necessarily a predetermined heaven or hell, but rather that we create our realities. So really I am in control of my life and am not controlled by outward stimulus. I am the one who determines whether I suffer or enjoy living. However I also believe that if some god wanted to punish us for ending our time on earth early due to some perceived unbearable suffering I think that that god isn't really deserving the credit he receives being called a god. On the other hand if a god wants us to kill ourselves I would be questioning his authority just as much and perhaps being wary of an ulterior motive.

Originally posted by mystiq

What the Mayans seemed to be worshipping however, when they felt their gods needed blood to be happy and appeased seemed more demonic to me. And I read someone on a thread here mentioning that at its peak, when the Mayan civilization was its most corrupt, with many human sacrifices, and an elitist rule by priests, the people simply left enmass, and went into the jungle and never came back.

A god in need of blood reminds me of the Hindu goddess Kali who needs blood as well.


what is Demonic or Satanic? What is Bad about them? are they not all creations of god?

We should understand the fact that there is no Good without Bad, no light without Darkness, no love without hate, etc and therefore no God without Demon. Demon=God & God=Demon

Who are we to determine what is good or bad? Who are we to Judge anyone who has committed suicide?

We are all taught to think in only one direction. Once we hear Demon or Satan we are led to think bad.

All religious books were written and taught by Humans and we can only teach our own perceptions and interpretations which may not be the correct one.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by rattan1]

[edit on 30-11-2008 by rattan1]

reply to post by cancerian42


Yes, good point. A God wanting us to commit suicide would be bad. Maybe that is why the bard was created in the first place, to dissuade people in thinking that "God loves you...or else."

reply to post by rattan1


Have you seen The Machinist with an emaciated Christian Bale? Spoiler alert, but not really, it is my opinion, but Bale's character is in purgatory, like the film Jacob's Ladder or something. Anyway, he chases the devil in the movie...



So during the film my roommate start talking and I say "never chase the devil..." and then the movie ends and he says the devil can help you work through things. I thought, how quaint. And it makes sense. Purgatory must be dreadful, but that is what it is for, to help see the "light" as it were.

Glenn Kimbal also had an a similar epiphany of sorts. If I recall he He was on a mountain asking why evil existed, a seemingly polar opposite of good. And he said that God said to him that evil is encapsulated inside of of creation, there is no polar opposites.

I will always stop short of saying evil is good, but I will admit that it can have its place, in some way.

And by the way, if you see the film The Machinist, be prepared to be grossed-out by Christian Bale. He ate very little for months before filming. This image is not computer graphics:

www.myfittribe.com...







[edit on 30-11-2008 by pluckynoonez]

I would say that the presence of a "suicide goddess" in and of iteself does not make the Mayans "more enlightened" or "less enlightened." All state-sanctioned religions play a role in social control. Religions reflect the societies they emerge in, and change accordingly with time and location. Different societies face different stresses, and thus have different ways of organizing the various human impulses. The Mesoamerican world was, at various times in history, a very crowded place with few resources and many mouths to feed. Perhaps sanctioning suicide and human sacrifice was one way to take some of this pressure off the society. In Medieval Europe, suicide was not sanctioned, but the same pressure (too many mouths to feed) was treated in various other ways: the encouragement of wars and crusades, for example, or the creation of a celibate clerical class (at some points in European history up to one-third of all males were monks or priests).

Often, such religious doctrines reflect various ways of dealing with social needs. Nothing more and nothing less.

As to the question, more broadly, of whether suicide is justifiable or not, I would answer "yes." None of us asked to be here, and in the final analysis, none of us know what awaits us afterwards. It is like awakening in a room with a single door out, no memory of how you got there, and no knowledge of what lies outside. There are various unpleasant people waving around different tattered texts that proport to explain what's going on, but they all contridict one another and often are poorly written, internally inconsistant fantasies. Are you justified in walking out that door? Absolultely.

Originally posted by silent thunder

As to the question, more broadly, of whether suicide is justifiable or not, I would answer "yes." None of us asked to be here, and in the final analysis, none of us know what awaits us afterwards. It is like awakening in a room with a single door out, no memory of how you got there, and no knowledge of what lies outside. There are various unpleasant people waving around different tattered texts that proport to explain what's going on, but they all contridict one another and often are poorly written, internally inconsistant fantasies. Are you justified in walking out that door? Absolultely.

Marvelous, I could kiss you. What I mean is, you put it so plainly in an incredibly eloquent way. It made me think of when I was a little plucky and I saw an episode of the Twilight Zone. It was called "Five Characters in Search of an Exit".

en.wikipedia.org...

In it they do just that.

Part one of three: www.youtube.com...

How can anyone, God included, expect full-compliance from anyone who is thrust into such a situation. I love life, but when the quality of that goes down, i feel I reserve the right to end without any undo outrage from anyone. I am thinking laissez-faire.

reply to post by rattan1


Blood sacrifices are a demonic thing. The pain and vibrations of such a thing gives them energy. Nazis and the cabal that are infiltrated with them via project paperclip, were concerned with portals, vortexes, sacred places. And there is quite a possiblity that they brought some of these guys in. Any blood sacrifice is an indication that something that is not from God is present. It even is alarming that the God of the old testament wanted animals sacrificed.

reply to post by mystiq


So, God is a little evil? God wants blood sometimes? And what I mean by that is the devil that is created by God that wants blood. So, does God with a little devil inside want his jars of clay to be sent to the fryer if they try to leave the warehouse before delivery? I wouldn't want blood for anything, except for ketchup (natural flavoring, we all use it, come on...call John Kerry's wife and ask her, tis true).

Funny thing is I used that song for a dance in a talent show in the 3th grade when I was just a little plucky:

www.youtube.com...

So, the old testament, God wants blood...how did that go over? because I would've been really freaked out if I was there.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by pluckynoonez]

Great thread.

As someone who has suffered lifelong suicidal urges (due to commands imprinted on me during an abusive childhood,) I can say that when you are in a frame of mind to kill yourself you are generally not sane. we have very deep survival urges, and once that is turned around so you would seriously prefer to die than to live, something is drastically wrong.

I love trees, but during one "dark period," lasting months, when I looked at a tree I didn't see a tree, I saw branches I could hang myself on. Beauty was a suitable place to tie a rope.

During another dark period I found myself walking out in front of traffic, not realising what I was doing until I was in the stream of traffic, desperately wishing one would kill me.

Another time I was going to throw myself under a train, and was stopped by a grubby little drunk who risked his life to save mine. Later that night, having regained enough sanity to realise death would be faster and less painful if I got run over between stations rather than at one, I headed to a railway line, only to be stopped by an insane guy who wanted to kill me. He'd apparently been driven crazy by his experience as a soldier in Vietnam. He told me he had to keep killing girls who looked like the Vietnamese girls who had murdered his mates in Vietnam.

I was so relieved that dying was going to be made so simple. He told me he'd give me a sporting chance, I could run and he'd count to 20 before he started. When I explained that I didn't want to run he was horrified, and lectured me on how precious life was. He grabbed my bag to find my address, walked me back home and sat by my front door all night to make sure I didn't go back to the railway line.

Looking back, knowing that I had 3 little children I had no right to leave, and knowing how traumatic (and messy,) it is for a train driver to run over someone, I'm mortified. I can't really forgive myself, despite knowing what lead to it. However I'm utterly certain God would not have judged me if I had died any of those times, just as I'm certain he would have greeted a young man I know who killed himself with love and compassion.

reply to post by Kailassa


Thank you so much for sharing such an incredible story! To not fear death is an amazing attribute to have. To want it might be crazy, for it can endangers others. Hugs! You are an incredible person!

But, yeah, you realized that the method you wanted was not the best. And you look Vietnamese, and that almost got you killed, but it didn't because you stared death in the face and death said "let get you a warm blanket."

Emotions run high. Life can be a drag. No one is truly happy. But everyone can while in duress and in the face of God.

Once again, thank you.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by pluckynoonez]

The real God/Creator isn't. Most religions mangle God a lot. Blood sacrifice is a demonic thing.

reply to post by mystiq


Okay, but we agree (or maybe we don't) that the devil can help us (in the case of The Machinist). So, the cliche is don't chase the devil, but if you do he might help you. And we know the Mayans were enlightened (see pic) but they themselves made things up to satisfy their own ends.

The point is, suicide has been deemed evil by our culture, and that is a result of our own manifestation of God, the devil, heaven, and hell. The Mayans, like many other cultures saw the act as, at minimum, laizzes-faire.

Are you looking for validation of a decision you've already reached?

If so, I think there are a lot of people on this site who would miss you and who might feel badly thinking that they encouraged you in your choice.

I think people have a right to end their own lives just as people have a right to smoke or overeat or sunbathe themselves into a piece of cancerous Samsonite. Not wise but it is a personal choice.

reply to post by whitewave


No, whitewave, I am not. Well, maybe I am. With the world as it were, with everyone dying and such, I am concerned about my own quality of life. I want the opinion of posters on ATS on this subject because it is nice to validate what is already in your heart. I have no plans, I am just like everyone else in the sense that I would not like to fear death....

Plucky, this is something that has crossed my mind but I have to say that as a warrior suicide is the last resort. I have seen the end and I know why I am here. Sometimes life seems like there is no ends for the means. However, I have realized something that is keeping me alive, while part of that is my choice, the other part is my decision to come back here, to earth.

While I understand and have personally dealt with this thought, I also realize that I have chosen to be here. So unless I have accomplished what I have come here to do it is not justified, not to me it just becomes a waste of time.

However, suicide is prevented these days or at least those who attempt it are punished. Why punished those who are punished. Why prevent a life who wants to die from dying when the earth is so "overly populated"?

I don't know you might be on to something. If I was going to commit suicide I would hang myself with the American Flag, just to make sure my message and my time on earth would be understood clearly.

The Mayas celebrated suicide when it was offered as a sacrifice to the gods.
Since everything revolved around their religion, mostly people would do any activity and offer it to their gods or ask for the gods' blessing while doing it.
They were incredibly superstitious, that's why they would constantly make offerings, didn't want to angry the deities.

reply to post by pluckynoonez
I hope you are not considering suicide for yourself.

Suicide is everyone's right, providing that would not mean forsaking important obligations, and the next world is wonderful, (I've had an NDE,) but heaven can wait.

Human society on is undergoing a period of massive changes. It's probably the most fascinating time out of any in the past or future to be alive on Earth. And we currently are in the unique situation of ordinary people having extraordinary access to immediate information about events all around the globe.

Sure much of what is going on is hidden from us, but we have enough information to see patterns and make educated guesses about what is going on behind the scenes.

Just imagine that you are an alien, from a different time and space, who decided to travel to the most important and exciting period in time ever. This could well be it. Perhaps you are part alien, and that is why you feel a disconnect, not only from society around you, but sometimes from yourself.

Ok, I'm guessing here, based on the feelings your posts have given me. (I read all I come across.) So I hope I'm not stepping on your toes.

So I suggest having a drink to the future, and continuing to watch the show. It's better than any novel I've read and there's no knowing yet how this story is going to pan out.

Besides, you might save a butterfly who is destined to flap its wings and create the tiny additional change needed to make it all work out well.