OK, so UFO's are REAL..now what?

Originally posted by Badge01
reply to post by Leto

 

I think you'd have to take another, closer link at reports that claim instant accelerations.

I'm not disputing you, but a lot of times when you go back to those original reports and look carefully you find problems.

Remember there were some very fast planes flying in the 50s. The F-104 flew from 1958 until 1967. That's the official release date. Prototypes may have been flying prior to that.

The problem with this field is there is a huge amount of contamination from so many sources, it's a wonder anyone can get good information.

Just a thought.

F-104's top speed is 1328mph, sounds impressive until you realize there have been UFO's clocked in at over 20,000mph since the 40's. As I've been trying to explain it's not even close.

And it's not just a speed issue, Air Force pilots have reported that UFOs clearly have superior maneuverability and climbing ability.

reply to post by Leto


Ok, lets bar out natural phenomena, misidentifications, our advanced craft, etc.

If it's a manifestation, it has no need of aerodynamics, nor care of "speed", distance, and so on. It simply doesn't matter.

Let's note how many times ghost phenomena is reported, of the apparition variety. If the apparition appears to be walking, the most often reported commonality few talk about is that the legs appear to move slower then the figure is actually going. It's moving too fast for the motion of the legs, which adds to the eeriness, and gives the whole experience a surreal feel.

Much is the same for UFO sightings. They're self contradicting in many cases, and in my view that's the anomaly presenting a manifestation trying to show us something we can both ponder (which ultimately fuels the next manifestation) and perceive within culture-based views.

The problem is people are not providing an alternative to extraterrestrials. Also, some could be extradimensional beings as well.

I don't see any other logical conclusion.

We know that evolution occurs and we are starting to find out that life finds a way.

Again, there's no logical explanation for eyewitness accounts from military, police, high ranking government officials, astronauts and more. Abduction cases, trace evidence, pictures, videos, cave paintings, paintings and ancient manuscripts.

There's no other explanation outside of the eyewitness accounts.

You can either deny the eyewitness accounts and look for a "natural explanation" that fits your belief.

It comes down to reason and logic.

I can look into parallel universes, the holographic principle and quantum loop gravity and come to a conclusion based on reason and logic.

I can also look at eyewitness accounts, abduction cases, pictures, videos and more and do the same thing.

If you look at a list of possibilities, the eyewitness accounts and my own eyes identify what these sightings are and many people just don't accept the explanation and they look for a "natural explanation" that fits their belief.

Leto,

You mention that UFO's have been "clocked" at 20,000MPH since the 40's.

Surely that 20K MPH is a guess-timate it's not like a pilot can get a speed gun out (did they have speed guns in the 40's?).

How can you tell how fast something is travelling if you are far away and maybe travelling at quite a speed in a completly different direction?

Originally posted by oinkment
How can you tell how fast something is travelling if you are far away and maybe travelling at quite a speed in a completly different direction?

We call it RADAR and yes they had RADAR in WWII You simply watch a blip on a screen... that way you know where it is, what direction its coming from and how fast it is going

It was what helped win the war... THEY didn't have RADAR

Originally posted by jritzmann
If it's a manifestation, it has no need of aerodynamics, nor care of "speed", distance, and so on. It simply doesn't matter.

Yup agreed IF it's one of my 'critters' speed and direction changes are irrelevant just like a lightning bolt doesn't care...

But then details is for Part TWO and its only Wed.

Hey I can follow instructions

Lets not forget that early radar was classically plagued by temperature inversion issues giving false readings, and WW2 UFO radar sightings were extremely rare, but not unheard of. I have never personally heard of the speed specifically mentioned by another poster.

But in the end, just as with photographs, radar doesn't tell us what it was, who it was, nor where it came from.

The bottom line here is that even after all the sightings, alleged crashes, contact experiences...does the ETH crowd not get that after all this time (hell even just starting from the modern age of UFOlogy), that there is curiously no physical evidence whatsoever?

I find that very telling as to the phenomenon's nature.

[edit on 12/3/2008 by Badge01]

reply to post by jritzmann

reply to post by Badge01


Yup. Same premise as what I said in another post regarding alien "surgery and reproductive interest". This kinda stuff just doesn't add up for the ETH'ers. But I'm very sure it'll continue to be the prevailing theory. It's hard for the public that believes it has an entitlement to an answer, wants it neatly packaged...and wants it....now, to get it's head around more complex ideas, and frankly where this all is pointing.

Originally posted by Dodecahedral
The problem is people are not providing an alternative to extraterrestrials.

That is the purpose of this thread!

Again, there's no logical explanation for eyewitness accounts from military, police, high ranking government officials, astronauts and more. Abduction cases, trace evidence, pictures, videos, cave paintings, paintings and ancient manuscripts.

So, we all agree that these manifestations have occurred since recorded time and have "tailored" its self to fit the mind set of the people of that time. Here are some examples:






While each example is of different times and different countries, there does seem to be and underlying theme or blueprint as far as the "craft go", but it is not a constant and the "craft" vary as much as the occupants.

The Japanese depiction on top occurred in 1803. The "craft" was said to have washed ashore, and the "occupant" was a woman with red hair... she held tightly a golden rectangular shaped box that she would not be parted from... interesting story and I will go into in detail in PART TWO.

The point is, each encounter or "manifestation" seems to be tailored specifically to that time frame and or people. The occupant of this "Japanese UFO" was not a Grey. It was a strange female, but the ship bore strange runes which the Japanese meticulously copied down (we'll discuss those later) which I believe is another clue to this mystery.

The last image in that series comes from a womans encounter in Italy. She was accosted by, what she perceived as strange "little people" as depicted in the artists re-creation.

If you look at a list of possibilities, the eyewitness accounts and my own eyes identify what these sightings are and many people just don't accept the explanation and they look for a "natural explanation" that fits their belief.

That is called rationality. Just because your eyes interpret data to your brain does not make that interpretation valid. In other words that "interpretation" forms beliefs and truths for YOU, specifically. You are important to "your perception of this thing we call life" and the stimulus your brain receives from "life" interprets YOUR reality.

The hand is quicker than the eye...

I think that relates to this phenomenon... there is some kind of slight at hand at work here, some kind of "trickery".. designed to fool our senses.. something that takes place just on the edge of our perception.. in that shady gray area just between consciousness and sub-consciousness. When you you cannot trust your eyes or your senses... you have to rely on rationality.

Unfortunately for us, this mystery seems to defy every rational thought and process, so we must collaborate as a group, a collective consciousness if you will, and rely on the group for checks and balances and use it to our advantage as a filter to better discern the facts.




[edit on 3-12-2008 by Alter-Ego]

Originally posted by Badge01
Any action between two physical entities leaves trace.

Absolutely. So it seems the ETH crowd has some explaining to do. Yet no one seems to see that.

reply to post by jritzmann

reply to post by Badge01


I totally agree... It makes me wonder if in fact People like Hynek and Vallee' or other researchers who are not "listed" anywhere or worked for the GOV...actually came to a conclusion or truth, that the population in general could not or WOULD not accept. Im sure they were silenced, and thus began the MSM "cover-ups" or "misrepresentations".. Roswell ect. Then you factor in capitalism, black projects, mis-identifications...their job at "hiding" the basic truths would have been easy.

That the UFO "cover up" and the complete saturation or contamination of UFOLOGY with the ETH (Extra-terrestrial Hypothesis- for those new to the field) is just their (the PTB's) way of "protecting" or "hiding" the truth... from the common citizen. That the "truth" could have far reaching even spiritual side-effects. Could that be why the UFO enigma held a higher Top Secret rating than even the Atomic bomb.... food for thought indeed.

Originally posted by Alter-Ego
I totally agree... It makes me wonder if in fact People like Hynek and Vallee' or other researchers who are not "listed" anywhere or worked for the GOV...actually came to a conclusion or truth, that the population in general could not or WOULD not accept.

I don't think from my standpoint it's a could or would issue. If, these beings have only as much ability to enter our reality as we give them - as based on my previous posts - belief and focus on the UFO enigma may manifest it, etc...then the conclusion would be that if it were officially admitted that these things exist, and not only exist, but manifest based on our "opening the door", and everyone knew this as fact...you're going to tell that to the public if you're a governing body?

Can you see the implications there?

Mind you I don't think the PTB know exactly what this is all about either. I don't think their knowledge is much beyond ours, although they probably have much better data.

Originally posted by jritzmann

Do any of you know, what is reported by "experiencers" as occurring to them in addition to "abductions"? In other words, what else they experience - barring nosebleeds, marks and such. I'm talking about other experiences. Anyone know? Because it's highly telling. I won't be shocked if no one knows, because it's been buried by most mainstream "researchers" for years.

Since no one has responded to this I'll spill it.

The commonality you won't often hear from the mainstream is that other "paranormal" events do often occur in the lives of lifelong experiencers. It can run from ghosts to other more bizarre events.

Interesting no?

reply to post by jritzmann


interesting yes

can you point me to any other information you have or that you know of along these lines?

I just re-read two older books that I hadn't read for a long time - just for grins

Incident At Exeter and Flying Saucers - Serious Business

however valid any of the information may or may not be in either - the one thing that really got me was - nothing has changed since then - in 40 some years

still having sightings/experiences - no evidence - everyone talking about a government cover-up

so, I see what you're saying - and it's something I've thought myself - they're not flying tin cans - there's something else going on here that we haven't really begun to see or understand

[edit on 12/3/2008 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by jritzmann

reply to post by Badge01


good explanation - how do you describe the indescribable? Especially if you're not really sure what you're experiencing yourself

as for not being able to reproduce events - or test them - what if you're a hearing person in the kingdom of the deaf - but only certain things make sound - or only at certain times?

we're so used to testing and looking for evidence based on what we already know - it's impossible to know what we don't know

where would we start looking?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis